And Tiger, as far as I know, there's no way to unload units from an army16:28:21 [Velociryx] 'lo all... And Tiger, as far as I know, there's no way to unload units from an army
16:28:36 [FeistyHaremChic] Hey there you
16:29:00 [Velociryx] Hiya FHC... 
Good name...heh...
16:29:14 [TigerGraph] Hmmm that sux So I have to delete all my armies and build new ones just to upgrade my units in them
16:29:26 [FeistyHaremChic] *very* original!
16:29:50 [FeistyHaremChic] snackage run!~ BRB...can I bring ya anything?
16:30:01 [Velociryx] pretty much, yep Tiger...one kinna risky way to do it is to keep involving your army in fights till you lose one or more units, then replace them with upgraded versions
16:30:23 [Velociryx] and go grab some grub, FHC! I'm good with the chicken nuggets and tea here, and will see you when you get back!
16:30:34 [TigerGraph] This game gets worse all the time Grrrrrr
16:31:06 [Velociryx] lol...I sympathize Tiger...and hullo Apoc!
16:31:18 [Apocalypse] Hey Vel.
16:31:40 [Velociryx] well, one thing, given the way that CB's societal model is shaping up, it can definately NOT be said that we're competing directly with Civ3
16:31:54 [TigerGraph] Well I guess I am going back to Civ2 Anyone want to buy a $40 frisbee? LOL
16:32:01 [Velociryx] the current state of the societal model makes MY head spin, and I'm designing the $%$%^ thing...lol
16:32:16 [Velociryx] lol...you got off cheap! I bought the more expensive LE
16:32:27 [Velociryx] for those spiffy designer's notes dontchaknow!
16:32:44 [Apocalypse] You should at least wait until PTW is released to make a decision on what to do with it.
16:32:59 [TigerGraph] PTW?
16:33:07 [Velociryx] that's true, Play the World looks interesting
16:33:15 [Velociryx] tho I can tell you that I will NOT rush right out and buy it
16:33:24 [Velociryx] burned once too often now.... 
16:33:25 [Apocalypse] I was disappointed with Civ3. I had to get it though. I buy everything with Sid's or Brian's name on it.
16:33:33 [TigerGraph] Is that mulyiplayer?
16:33:43 [Apocalypse] Yes, PTW is mp.
16:34:16 [TigerGraph] Cool hope it is better than the current version
16:34:23 [Velociryx] the thing that disappoints me about civ3 is that it fails to live up to its own potential
16:34:33 [Velociryx] the ingredients are all there, but too simplified to really shine
16:34:37 [Velociryx] if that makes any sense
16:34:37 [TigerGraph] Got that right
16:34:58 [Apocalypse] I remember my first Sidgame, Silent Service. It took me so long to get that to work. Great game though. It is the reason the Submarine sim subgenre was popular in the late eighties/early nineties.
16:35:01 [TigerGraph] I think it needed another 6 months in development before release
16:35:24 [TigerGraph] Yes that was a great game and so was Red Storm
16:35:28 [Velociryx] yeah Apoc....that was a cool game IIRC....I was jazzed...and agreed Tiger....
16:35:44 [Velociryx] Christmas crunch time pressure is a good economic reason to rush a game out the door
16:35:52 [Velociryx] but does bad things to consumer good will
16:36:03 [TigerGraph] I love Colonization too Still play it often
16:36:08 [Velociryx] (especially when what is on the BOX description is not what you get when you load the game)
16:37:21 [Apocalypse] Silent Service was back when Sid did graphics and cowrote manuals.
16:38:03 [TigerGraph] Seems most games these days don't live up to whats advertised I remember the days when I was blown away by new games
16:38:46 [Velociryx] ya....as I'm finding out, graphics are HARD! And total agreement with you, Tiger
16:39:09 [Apocalypse] I remember the days when I just went to the store and picked something out without researching.
16:39:29 [TigerGraph] Graphics take a certain creative touch I know I am a graphic designer
16:39:36 [Velociryx] lol...dangerous to do that these days
16:39:51 [Apocalypse] Sid has done everything. Design, programming, graphics, music, documentation, marketing, public relations, etc.
16:39:56 [Velociryx] are you?! Hmmm...looking to get into game design? If so, CB needs you!
16:39:57 [TigerGraph] Yep [picked it just by what was on the box and was always pleased
16:40:29 [TigerGraph] Actually I mostly do web graphics and design web pages
16:40:52 [Apocalypse] I'm still willing to help with an official web site. I've already thought of a good possible layout.
16:41:30 [TigerGraph] Official site for what?
16:41:34 [Velociryx] well, if you're a fair hand with photoshop and can draw at all, we could almost certainly use your talents...and apoc! Awesome! I will put Pyro in touch with you! (send me a PM with your e-mail addy!)
16:41:38 [Velociryx] Hiya Tia!
16:41:42 [Velociryx] Candle'Bre...
16:41:50 [Apocalypse] Hey Tiamat.
16:41:57 [Apocalypse] Official site for CB.
16:42:11 [Tiamat] Hey! What's up today?
16:42:28 [Velociryx] afternoon John!
16:42:40 [Velociryx] Not much Tia...getting ready to do some creative jamming on CB
16:42:51 [Velociryx] see what new ideas might come from that...
16:43:13 [Tiamat] ok....so what exactly is Candle'Bre?
16:43:33 [TigerGraph] Well I have to run My email addy is tiger@tigergraphic.com Drop me a line and we can discuss it
16:43:35 [Velociryx] but...at the moment...I'm just kicked back with some tea...gettin ready to get ready...lol
16:43:53 [Velociryx] as to CB...it's a plan for a 4x, civ-style game...
16:44:00 [Velociryx] Thanks Tiger, and will do!
16:44:32 [Tiamat] ahhhh sounds cool. I can't play Civ anymore cause someone always hogs the computer!
16:44:47 [Apocalypse] I just sent a PM to you Vel.
16:45:01 [Velociryx] LOL...hmmm....how many guesses do I get as to who that might be, Lady Tia? 
16:45:05 [Velociryx] Thanks Apoc!
16:45:39 [Apocalypse] No problem.
16:46:06 [Tiamat] it's not rocket science besides he thinks he's a better player then me!
16:46:34 [Velociryx] well, when PTW comes out, you'll have to show him how it's done, eh?
16:47:03 [Tiamat] You got it! Lady Tia......I like that.
16:47:13 [Tiamat] maybe I'll change my name
16:47:37 [Velociryx] Aztec Powah!!!! (sorry....I get a little carried away thinking about MP)... Lady Tia...yes, has a good ring to it!
16:48:18 [Velociryx] Hey Sam!
16:48:30 [Apocalypse] Hey Sam, GP.
16:48:32 [Velociryx] GP!
16:48:37 [GP] hey
16:48:47 [Tiamat] Look out GP is here! Just kidding Hey GP
16:48:53 [Samudragupt] opps sorry I didnt know I was sam
16:48:57 [FeistyHaremChic] the infamous GP
16:49:04 [GP] Markos's announcement has been eclipsed
16:49:10 [GP] Hey gals
16:49:14 [Velociryx] lol Tia...and sorry Sam....I'm name-lazy...lol
16:49:21 [Velociryx] WB FHC!
16:49:33 [Velociryx] The chat announcement, you mean, GP?
16:49:34 [Tiamat] announcment?
16:49:43 [FeistyHaremChic] ::yummy snackages::
16:49:44 [Samudragupt] enlighten me
16:49:52 [GP] Vel, I will post an announcement in the OT
16:49:53 [Velociryx] what didja get, FHC?
16:50:20 [Velociryx] Ahhh, good thinking GP! And thanks!
16:50:41 [Samudragupt] that is a very very mentally discomforting name GHC
16:50:45 [Samudragupt] i meant FHC
16:51:06 [Samudragupt] but i am not too good at minding my p's and q's
16:51:25 [Tiamat] or at typing them
16:51:27 [GP] FHC =kelli?
16:51:29 [Velociryx] (trying to come up with some intriguing things the letter G could stand for in GHC)
16:51:30 [Velociryx]
16:51:31 [FeistyHaremChic] it is?? Hmm..I rather like it Not to worry, I am harmless...lol
16:52:07 [Samudragupt] kelli who?
16:52:11 [Velociryx] FHC is Nancy from the CB project, GP, but a good guess!
16:52:12 [Tiamat] Kelli? you mean as in smellykelli?
16:52:24 [GP] yes
16:52:35 [GP] ok
16:52:39 [FeistyHaremChic] FHC aka WenchyOne
16:52:45 [Tiamat] nope. Kelli is in Dallas right now or maybe on the way back.
16:53:04 [GP] So who all is expected for the chat, herr leader
16:53:07 [GP] ?
16:53:19 [Apocalypse] Hey Asher
16:53:34 [Tiamat] Hi Ahser.
16:53:37 [Samudragupt] is this a CB private chat - then I can convince myself to go back to work
16:53:50 [Velociryx] Don't really know, GP....hopefully Chowlett, Skanky, and some of the other regulars will show, but I'm not sure!
16:54:14 [Velociryx] Not private at all, Sam....feel free to join us! We're just lurking and making small talk whilst waiting for more to show up...
16:54:14 [Tiamat] when is this supposed to take place?
16:54:27 [Velociryx] 5 eastern time....but...lol
16:54:45 [Velociryx] you know how that goes...real life has a way of messin' with chat schedules most times
16:54:50 [FeistyHaremChic] but you know men...always late...LOL
16:54:58 [Tiamat] ahhh that would be now then wouldn't it
16:55:04 [Velociryx] heh...hey now! I was early!
16:55:26 [Velociryx] yeppers! now or soonish, anyway
16:55:29 [Samudragupt] actually I think Sam is not a good name for one of the great ancient leader - try Gupt or Sg
16:55:44 [Tiamat] yes yes they are. Always late and always in a hurry!
16:55:47 [FeistyHaremChic] : 
lacing gold star next to Vel's name on the chart:: lol
16:55:54 [Samudragupt] I dont think Samudragupt would like it - his soul might be tormented
16:56:10 [Velociryx] lol FHC....and you got it Sam...er...Sg
16:56:11 [Velociryx]
16:57:29 [Velociryx] Chowlett!
16:57:36 [FeistyHaremChic] Hey Chowlett!
16:57:52 [Velociryx] (starts randomly playing Master Chowlett's sound files for the game)
16:57:56 [Tiamat] It's Chow time
16:57:58 [Chowlett] even'n
16:58:02 [Samudragupt] wow you are a person in demand Chow
16:58:04 [Chowlett] :rolleyes:
16:58:11 [Apocalypse] Heya Chowlett
16:58:20 [cyclotron7] Hey Vel...
16:58:20 [Apocalypse] Hey cyclotron
16:58:27 [cyclotron7] and all the rest
16:58:28 [Velociryx] Cyclo! You made it!
16:58:30 [FeistyHaremChic] Hey Cyclo..long time no see
16:58:37 [Velociryx] didn't think I'd see ya here...howzit man?
16:58:43 [Chowlett] Is that wenchy, or what?
16:58:56 [Velociryx] lol....it is indeed!
16:58:57 [FeistyHaremChic] ::wink::
16:58:57 [cyclotron7] Uhhh... sorry, do I know you from somewhere?
16:59:04 [Samudragupt] what what eh
16:59:08 [Chowlett] brb
16:59:10 [FeistyHaremChic] Yes you do Cyclo!
16:59:17 [cyclotron7] Wenchy?
16:59:21 [Velociryx] howdy Stefu!
16:59:46 [Stefu] Eh, is there supposed to be a chat about some kind of a game now?
16:59:50 [FeistyHaremChic] ::giggle:: it be me in disguise
17:00:09 [cyclotron7] Hey Vel... I lied about being gone for the chat this weekend... I thought you meant last weekend...
17:00:09 [Velociryx] Sure is man...we're marshalling the forces now....
17:00:45 [Stefu] Ooookay... I know it's supposed to be a civ-type game but what, exactly? I could check the webpage, of course, but I'm laaaazzzzyyyyy...
17:01:03 [Samudragupt] okey dokey folks - days so nice dont happen in ithaca often - i am off
17:01:04 [FeistyHaremChic] shame on ya Cyclo! It's a great CA day don't ya think?
17:01:12 [Velociryx] LOL...that's okay....part of the reason we're here today is to get the word out a bit more!
17:01:32 [Velociryx] lol....'k...have a good one sg!
17:01:37 [Stefu] So... could you tell me a bit more about the game?
17:02:14 [Velociryx] As to what Candle'Bre is....the goal is to craft the game into a 4x, civ-style game,
17:02:27 [Velociryx] set in a fantasy/medieval based world of our own creation
17:02:47 [cyclotron7] hey guys... I'm going for lunch, brb in 1/2 hour or so.
17:02:51 [Velociryx] we're starting with some simplified but scalable concepts with a plan for getting a basic version of the game out
17:03:04 [Stefu] Kinda like MoM?
17:03:19 [cyclotron7] see you later... :exits with a flash:
17:03:27 [Velociryx] playable from start to finish as a first goal...now granted, those first versions will not have all the shades of complexity as the final form will have, but we'll grow into that
17:03:55 [Velociryx] and yes, we've pulled from a wide range of other games for inspiration...Civ, EU, MoM, Magic: The Gathering, Axis and Allies,
17:03:59 [Velociryx] and a good many others
17:04:16 [Velociryx] but in addition to that, we're weaving in some concepts that I've not seen in any game to date
17:04:40 [Stefu] Okeydokey... sounds good. There'll be magic and metahumans and stuff like that, I presume?
17:05:06 [GP] FeistyHaremChic> where in cali are you?
17:05:31 [Velociryx] eventually, yes. As it stands now, magic is limited but growing (recent threads discussing how it'll play out), and while all the factions in CB are human
17:06:05 [FeistyHaremChic] I am near San Fran...born and raised in So Calif though
17:06:05 [Tiamat] Mages?
17:06:08 [Velociryx] there are some possibilities and hints at other races and creatures (backstory makes mention of a race called the Nilrogg, and we've been experimenting with/talking about elementals and such in the magic thread)
17:06:26 [GP] how big will magic be in the final game? in the basic game? How big is it in the board game?
17:06:56 [Velociryx] two kinds of mages on the drawing board, Tia....not 100% sure yet how it'll look in final form tho
17:06:58 [Stefu] What's the big story? You mention factions - so I don't think this'll be start-with-one-city-conquer-all game...
17:07:11 [Stefu] More like EU with already existing kingdoms...
17:07:17 [Velociryx] magic in the board game (upon which our first version is based) is very limited....
17:07:38 [Velociryx] there are only a handful of spells, and those are in the hands of a single playable group as that group's big advantage
17:07:43 [GP] describe very limited
17:07:54 [Stefu] Magic should be limited IMHO. I just finished rereading Robin Hobb's Assassin trilogy, and quite liked the magic in there...
17:07:58 [GP] ok
17:08:11 [Stefu] Of course, I love the whole trilogy, and that was just an excuse to promote it.
17:08:20 [Colon] hi everyone
17:08:30 [Stefu] Hiya Bowel
17:08:36 [Tiamat] hey colon.
17:08:53 [Tiamat] ok so why the limitation on Magic?
17:08:56 [GP] what's up duckie?
17:08:58 [Velociryx] (very limited = 3 spells). In the final version of the free release, magic might be a bit more prevalent than that, but not by much...as I see it, that'll be one of the MOST difficult pieces to implement effectively and with balance
17:09:18 [Colon] long time no see tia
17:09:33 [Colon] GP, is duckie my latest nick?
17:09:33 [Tiamat] Gotcha
17:09:34 [GP] ok vel
17:09:49 [GP] from the avatar
17:09:51 [Velociryx] wrt to the question about the big story....the backstory of Candle'Bre is that the kingdom was founded by a group of refugees some 200 years before the game opens
17:09:59 [Tiamat] Yes it has been Colon. Did you bring me any chocolate?
17:10:34 [Velociryx] the refugees, threatened with total anihilation at the hands of a brutal subterrainean race, used a powerful, all but forgotten magic to save them....
17:10:58 [Colon] I got the order, and I'll bring it personally, but that migh take some time...
17:11:08 [Velociryx] and save them it did....but it also created a forbidding mountain range all around them....which became the homeland and kingdom of the refugees ....Candle'Bre....
17:11:21 [Stefu] There are no Finns here! Horrifying.
17:11:47 [Velociryx] 200 years later, the kingdom is torn asunder with assassination of the royal family, and there are five noble houses competing for power and control of the kingdom
17:12:43 [GP] How do the mountain ranges and the previous conflict fit into the game?
17:13:19 [Velociryx] the mountain range defines the map borders...CB is totally isolated and cut off from the outside world...it makes the place totally self contained
17:13:19 [Tiamat] I take it the mountain range has to be conqured?
17:14:03 [Velociryx] the previous conflict with the creatures from 'neath the earth plays a role in that....they might not have all been killed by the magic that spawned the mountain range and saved the refugees ....
17:14:09 [Velociryx] they might make an appearance in-game
17:14:20 [Stefu] Something isn't clicking right with 'subterranean race'. Can't it be something like all-conquering barbarian horde? I realize this is nitpicking, but still... subterranean race just brings forth images of homicidal mole people with whiskers and brown fur and everything.
17:14:47 [Osweld] What's wrong with homicidal mole people?
17:14:53 [Chowlett] back - give us a minute to get up to date.
17:15:08 [Velociryx] Tia...the mountain range in the early version represents the game map boundaries....eventually, one of the win conditions will be to construct a road to the outside world, but that'll be a while in coming....
17:15:14 [GP] no
17:15:38 [GP] no waiting for Chowder-head.
17:15:43 [Stefu] "Moles" and "Homicidal" just aren't two words that are connectable.
17:16:09 [Tiamat] I thought it would play a part. Mole people would be a bit small.
17:16:31 [Velociryx] Stefu....the Nilrogg (subterranean race) angle will prolly make more sense in game terms if you read "Flight and Founding" the backstory of Candle'Bre (which will be included in the game manual)
17:16:35 [Stefu] Yes, and they'd look silly.
17:16:49 [Stefu] I still want a barbarian horde.
17:17:13 [Velociryx] Believe me...the Nilrogg aren't lil' mole people...and QUITE barbaric...
17:17:31 [GP] For the people who don't read the manual, you need to have a brief paragraph giving the setting at game start.
17:17:34 [Velociryx] they're actually six limbed critters....with their middle limbs serving as either arms or legs, depending on their needs
17:17:37 [Tiamat] What about Amazon Mages?
17:17:54 [Velociryx] nasty, insectiod looking mandibles, too...grim critters....
17:17:55 [Stefu] But they're subterranean. And that's just unnecessary. Besides, if they're subterranean, what's a mountain range to stop them?
17:18:15 [Osweld] Did you ever figure out what you where doing with the gods?
17:18:49 [Tiamat] point to Stefu. A mountain range would pose no problem or did I miss something?
17:18:50 [Stefu] It might work better if there are just humans and possibly humanlike creatures (elves, dwarves) IMHO.
17:18:51 [Velociryx] good point GP....one of the (many) things I'm working on...lol....Tia...no amazon mages just yet...no jungles...
17:19:35 [Velociryx] Osweld....still hammering that out...once I get the latest notes summarized re: the magic system, we've got a decision to make in that regard....
17:19:41 [Velociryx] wrt to the mountain range....
17:19:44 [Osweld] humans, evles, and dwarves? boooorrriiinnngg
17:19:48 [Chowlett] Ok, I'm tp to date. GP -
17:19:56 [Apocalypse] Elves and dwarves are overdone. I'd rather have new semihuman races.
17:20:04 [Velociryx] it was spawned in an instant...and the spawning of it (directly beneath the approaching horde) simply swept them away
17:20:20 [Velociryx] (along with numerous members of the refugees in unfortunate positions).
17:20:24 [Stefu] I gave elves and dwarves only as examples of humanlike races.
17:20:32 [Velociryx] the two-edged sword of the formation of the mountains though, is that....
17:20:46 [Velociryx] while it accomplished the goal of saving the refugees
17:20:56 [Velociryx] it also boxed them in....a living prison, as it were....and
17:21:12 [Velociryx] the mountains were formed from the earth itself, meaning that deep beneath the land of Candle'Bre,
17:21:25 [Velociryx] there is now a vast honeycomb of subterrainean caves....
17:22:00 [Stefu] You'd think that surviving subterraneans would eventually get interested in getting under that mountain range and doing whatever those subterraneans want to do to humans.
17:22:16 [Chowlett] Hmm. Do the Nilrogg actually HAVE to be subterranean?
17:22:49 [Velociryx] Not vital to the story, no...but it makes a nice symmetry, given the way the mountains that form the boundaries of the kingdom were created
17:22:53 [Stefu] And can't be just have a regular barbarian horde? I'd feel more comfortable with a regular barbarian horde.
17:22:58 [Velociryx] and Stefu...you're right...they absolutelydo
17:23:31 [Chowlett] ah fair enough. If the caves form a plot element, then i'll let it stand
17:24:05 [GP] w/hat about forgetting the nilrogg and just having factions fight?
17:24:09 [Stefu] Am I sensing a "Unite the kingdom before Nilroggs invade" plotline?
17:24:21 [Tiamat] living in the caves or above in the moutain range?
17:24:37 [Velociryx] GP...that's the bulk of the game, yes....the race to unite the kingdom
17:24:46 [Velociryx] but....in addition to that...and lurking on the fringes of the story
17:25:02 [Velociryx] is the ever present possibility that something wicked from beneath the feet of the humans in candle'bre
17:25:07 [Velociryx] will erupt and wreck havoc
17:25:16 [GP] Is this more like SMAC or like Civ (not the setting...the elements)?
17:25:26 [Chowlett] I'm sensing fate card...
17:25:47 [Velociryx] That's what I was sensing too....and GP....it's got hearty elements of both, I think
17:25:53 [Velociryx] structurally, it's very much akin to civ and eu
17:26:00 [Velociryx] with the factional element coming from smac
17:26:06 [GP] Which are you stealing from more?
17:26:14 [Stefu] Do the factions have differences?
17:26:18 [Tiamat] brb
17:26:18 [GP] factions understoiod
17:26:30 [Stefu] ie. like SMAC had University=science, PKs=diplomacy...
17:26:31 [Chowlett] Stefu - surely
17:26:37 [Velociryx] civ/eu was the genesis of the idea, with mom and smac coming in and making healthy contributions
17:26:42 [Chowlett] Furies have powerful cavalry
17:26:46 [Velociryx] Stefu - absolutely yes!
17:27:01 [Chowlett] Mourngrym is verry wealthy, and gets stuff cheaper
17:27:06 [Velociryx] each faction has it's own distinct advantages and disadvantages, which will lead to divergent styles of play
17:27:14 [Chowlett] Castillar can curry great favour with the church
17:27:25 [Apocalypse] There could be a faction of the week for the official site.
17:27:30 [GP] Smac
17:27:31 [Chowlett] Council of Seven are an exceptionally bad idea to attack
17:27:48 [Chowlett] and Quincunx have powerful magics on their side
17:28:06 [Colon] vel, you know how balancing problems different traits give right?
17:28:11 [Velociryx] Good plan, Apoc....esp. once we get v0.1 out and can start testing live strats
17:28:24 [GP] How much do people enjoy the factional differences in SMAC and in Civ3?
17:28:27 [Stefu] Please include lots of background story, ie. "Furies have powerful cavalry because most of their supporters come from horse plains of Blahblah"...
17:28:38 [Colon] I meant: how *much* blancing problems
17:28:38 [Velociryx] Colon...yep....that was one of the more interesting aspects of the early design
17:28:52 [Colon] what are you going to do to avoid them?
17:28:55 [Stefu] GP: I enjoy them. Was sceptical at first, but they make you feel for the faction.
17:28:59 [GP] Please omit background story
17:29:05 [Chowlett] Ok -Furies have powerful cavalry because they are the remnants of the Royal Family's household guard
17:29:08 [GP] ok shtefooo
17:29:26 [GP] Do people only like 1 faction? Or do they play them all?
17:29:39 [Stefu] I bet you'd want to make this a branching thread chat too, you old drunkposter.
17:29:51 [Osweld] GP: not enough difference for me, especially in Civ3
17:29:52 [Velociryx] Definately planning on that, Stefu! And GP....don't know....my sense is that the factional differences will appeal to a pretty wide group,
17:29:53 [Chowlett] we have stuff like that already in basic form, and the writing team is fleshing out the individual character almost as we speak
17:29:54 [Colon] GP, different traits are a good thing in principle and fun, but it tends to imbalancing the game
17:30:14 [GP] you really rip into me, don't you, little androgyne...
17:30:18 [Velociryx] though it is true that certain people will more naturally gravitate toward a faction that better suits their style of play
17:30:36 [GP] never played SMAC...how did factions come off there?
17:30:43 [Stefu] GP: I play mostly PKs, with occasional Hive and Morganites (Morganites mostly so all seven factions would have some chance at success - puter just sucks with those Morganites, man)
17:30:49 [Velociryx] (ie - buildmongers will prolly LOVE The Council of Seven or Castillar, while warmongers will gravitate toward Mourngrym/Fury
17:30:55 [Velociryx] and Magic lovers will opt for the Wizards
17:31:22 [Apocalypse] Factions were great in SMAC. They all had really good points.
17:31:35 [Chowlett] although that last can be less true in the final commercial release if our magic continues the way it looks likeit is.
17:31:43 [GP] PKs = Player Killers?
17:31:57 [Osweld] peake keepers
17:32:01 [Osweld] peace
17:32:03 [Chowlett] PeaceKeepers
17:32:06 [Apocalypse] PKs = Peacekeepers.
17:32:06 [Stefu] No, PeaceKeepers...
17:32:10 [Chowlett] lol
17:32:11 [GP] ok
17:32:12 [Velociryx] Very true, Chowlett.....I'm really liking the way that magic is shaping up, however, as I see it, we're essentially discussing two divergent paths at the moment....
17:32:19 [Stefu] Well, that one certainly got answered.
17:32:20 [GP] sorry
17:32:27 [Apocalypse] Originally the Peacekeepers were the Keepers of Wisdom.
17:32:32 [GP] I'm stuck in the 2.4.2 world...
17:32:39 [Velociryx] prolly need to tone that down to one (either keep sigils and run with that, or keep magic centered firmly around the church)
17:32:53 [Chowlett] that's a random bit of interesting trivia, Apoc
17:33:07 [Stefu] And Human Hive (I think) was Archon
17:33:16 [Apocalypse] I know a lot of random interesting SMAC trivia.
17:33:21 [Stefu] Or was it that University was Archon? I forget.
17:33:29 [Chowlett] My gut feeling is that, neat though the gods=>magic idea was, we ought to stick to the sigils
17:33:29 [Apocalypse] And the Believers were the Conclave.
17:33:31 [GP] Give us the 7 factions and a phrase to stereotype each, VEL.
17:33:36 [Stefu] I wonder what the Keepers of Wisdom would have been like...
17:33:40 [Apocalypse] University was Archon.
17:33:43 [Chowlett] hence, presumably "Conclave Bible, datalinks"
17:33:49 [Stefu] GP: Do you mean SMAC?
17:33:50 [Chowlett] 5 factions
17:34:02 [Velociryx] Only five factions, GP, but they would be:
17:34:10 [GP] Bre.
17:34:23 [Chowlett] wrt to magic - I can't help feeling that if we tie it to the church, Quincunx will lose part of it's main strength to Castillar
17:34:33 [Apocalypse] Keepers of Wisdom was basically the same as The Peacekeepers. They just changed the name so no one would get them confused with a techie faction.
17:34:33 [Chowlett] Besides, Sigils sound cool
17:34:34 [ImmortalWombat] cheese
17:34:37 [Velociryx] Fury: Master Horsemen....the former guardians of the king.....Hugely talented militarists
17:35:01 [GP] ok
17:35:14 [Velociryx] Mourngrym: Wealthiest of the factions - Strong ties to mercenary groups and with their fingers in espionage
17:35:40 [Chowlett] Wombat - ?
17:35:50 [Stefu] Apoc: I would have liked it if they'd have included KoW faction in SMACX, but made it different from PKs... Nice bit of touch for TRUE NORSK BLAK METAL fans to get.
17:36:19 [ImmortalWombat] Bre. cheese
17:36:21 [Velociryx] The Council of Seven: By the people, for the people....a democratically elected council to advise the king....their main factional strengths are in their ability to "convert" captured troops to their cause and win the hearts of the commoners in other factions (ie - chance of rebellion in your provs
17:36:25 [Velociryx] if you attack the Seven)
17:36:55 [Chowlett] Like I said - baaaad idea
17:36:56 [Velociryx] Castillar: Religious stronghold. Has VAST influence with the church, meaning frequent use of church intercessions to stop attacks before they start
17:37:19 [Velociryx] The Wizards: Nasty, wickedly powerful spells to augment their otherwise unremarkable soldiers
17:38:12 [Tiamat] Augument? Turn them into Mutant Soldiers?
17:38:36 [Velociryx] Tia...as it stands now, the wizards have three spells they can make use of....
17:38:41 [GP] Is it better to have "atmosphere names" like Castillar or descriptive names like Mercantalists, Priests, etc.?
17:39:00 [ImmortalWombat] atmosphere + manual
17:39:06 [Chowlett] GP - Smac had both
17:39:08 [Velociryx] Pestilence - targets a specific province - all troops entering, moving thru, or currently there must roll a survival check
17:39:24 [Osweld] So, Velociryx... did you ever decide what you where doing in regards to the gods?
17:39:29 [Velociryx] Probability Control - Amounts to "re-rolls" in battle - improves odds of hitting
17:39:42 [Chowlett] The factions were known as Morganites, Spartans and Human Hive for some of them
17:39:46 [Velociryx] Divination - Scrying on the enemies of the state to see what they've got
17:40:05 [Stefu] I actually prefer descriptive, though with bit of atmosphere, ie. Priests of Turywenzo (old Civ3 List folks might remember this )
17:40:06 [GP] I like that way
17:40:22 [Chowlett] But when starting a game you got a one word description - "Merchant", "Survivalist" etc
17:40:24 [GP] name that is both atmospheric and recognizeable
17:40:39 [Velociryx] GP, I think both.....Osweld 0 still hammering that out.....one of the things we need to discuss in the magic thread is which of the two very different paths we wanna take where magic is concerned.
17:40:40 [GP] like Steu
17:40:47 [GP] stefu
17:40:54 [Stefu] No, scratch Priests of Turywenzo - Church of Turywenzo. ALL HAIL TURYWENZO!
17:40:55 [GP] his idea
17:41:10 [Velociryx] like Chowlett, I'm pretty sold on the notion of elemental sigils.....I think it makes more sense in terms of the elemental nature of CB's magic
17:41:21 [Velociryx] and differentiates the Wizards group from the Religious group
17:41:23 [GP] keep it simple stupid
17:41:34 [Chowlett] precisely.
17:42:14 [Velociryx] :: nodding to GP :: exactly why we gotta pick one direction or the other...can't really pursue both....would be too convoluted, I think
17:42:27 [Stefu] Will there be colonization, finding new lands, stuff like that?
17:42:31 [GP] what was your board game experience, Chowie?
17:42:42 [Stefu] Might be bit hard with mountains in the way, but still..
17:43:15 [Stefu] Oh look, it's the pool cleaner with plumbing hobby. Have you cum to fix our pipes, sailor?
17:43:20 [Chowlett] got about 3 turns done, then stopped for the night. I hope to play a bit more this next week or two. All agreed it had a lot of promise though, and was looking to become good fun
17:43:43 [Chowlett] Once we got familiar enough with the rules to get it moving...
17:43:47 [Velociryx] Not colonization in the classic sense (at least not in CB itself, but yes in the sequel effort, when we get that far)....CB's map is 60 provinces, with each group beginning with five, and the rest unaligned
17:43:51 [RonJeremy] Evening all. I did a thread about you yesterday, Stefu. It got deleted inside 5 minutes.
17:43:55 [GP] any insights?
17:43:57 [ImmortalWombat] What was the other option other than elementals, Vel?
17:43:59 [GP] chow?
17:44:09 [Velociryx] Hiya Ron!
17:44:18 [Stefu] What kind of a thread? Do you still have it? I want to read it.
17:44:30 [Chowlett] One or two rules needed clarification
17:44:38 [GP] does it branch?
17:44:39 [Velociryx] IW - Magic has taken two distinct branches....one is the elemental sigil idea
17:44:41 [Chowlett] Which they were
17:44:46 [RonJeremy] Hi Velo. When are you going to write some more for us? I love your stuff.
17:44:56 [Velociryx] and the other is to keep magic under the perview of the church...expressed in the form of miracles
17:45:06 [ImmortalWombat] oh, ok
17:45:19 [Velociryx] Ron... Working on that...here lately, all my spare time has been going into drafting the Societal Model for the game
17:45:20 [RonJeremy] Stefu- I was explaining how you were responsible for the extinction of the Porn Fairies.
17:45:21 [Chowlett] And there were concerns as to the prevention of "Province rush" - ie, what stops a player taking a few provinces, and snowballing. These were considered, and hopefully addressed.
17:45:21 [cyclotron7] And, I'm back
17:45:36 [Velociryx] but....I'll be back at the creative stuff as soon as I get caught up! And thank ya!
17:45:45 [Stefu] You know what kind of a game someone should make? Post-apocalyptic cross between Civ and King of Dragon Pass. That'd kick major ass.
17:45:47 [Velociryx] wb Cyclo!
17:45:49 [ImmortalWombat] Damn you Stefu, I loved those fairies
17:45:57 [Stefu] RonJeremy: Can you PM me it?
17:46:05 [Velociryx] Stefu...funny you should mention that...hehe...that's another idea in my head
17:46:15 [Chowlett] Besides, I realised the other day I'd entirely forgotten about the soldier's upkeep, which ought to slow a large army somewhat
17:46:21 [Apocalypse] Well, there are still bondage faries around.
17:46:38 [Velociryx] Chowlett...that's true....another big thing is:
17:46:38 [Stefu] Well, it's been an idea in my head for a long time, and I've started a thread or two about it...
17:46:44 [ImmortalWombat] so Stefu can post an apology thread
17:46:45 [Velociryx] the presence of the Wizards
17:46:57 [Velociryx] The threat of pestilence will keep people from forming uber stacks
17:47:19 [Velociryx] that would be a grim sight...to see all your troops (or the bulk of them) subjected to pestilence
17:47:25 [Velociryx] should force people to keep spread out
17:47:42 [Velociryx] Same basic principal with church intercession...can't afford to put all your eggs in one basket
17:47:42 [Stefu] And with post-apocalyptic I naturally mean post-nuclear, in Fallout vein. Explore radioactive wasteland, kill mutants, contact other survivors, rebuild civilization! Why hasn't anyone made a game like that yet?
17:47:49 [Velociryx] intercession would totally shut you down
17:48:04 [Chowlett] yes indeed. I've advised the Quincunx player to subtley change his abilty from Prob to Pest.
17:48:08 [cyclotron7] Velociryx> Hey Vel...
17:48:10 [RonJeremy] Stefu- check your PM's.
17:48:15 [ImmortalWombat] Stefu> sounds like a Civ2 mod
17:48:40 [Velociryx] Chowlett....good plan...and in fact, I have been thinking a lot about that....
17:48:46 [cyclotron7] Velociryx> How is the coding team coming?
17:48:56 [GP] How many man hours of work will it require to produce the first demo? The commercial version?
17:48:59 [Velociryx] was concidering nixing the probability ability and letting the wizards use both div and pest at start
17:49:02 [zulu9812] evening, folks
17:49:03 [Stefu] IW: Like SMAC sounds like a Civ2 mode. :rolleyes: It would make a kickass next project for Sid... or someone.
17:49:07 [Velociryx] Cyclo....still on track, good sir!
17:49:17 [Velociryx] evening Zulu!
17:49:28 [cyclotron7] A little prob with your connection, Zulu?
17:49:34 [Velociryx] man hours of coding....hmmm....I honestly don't have a good estimate for that
17:49:35 [ImmortalWombat] SMAC is a Civ2 mod, no?
17:49:35 [zulu9812] what is candle'bre?
17:50:01 [Stefu] IW: No, SMAC is a whole different game.
17:50:13 [Velociryx] Zulu....CB is a 4x, civ/eu style game set in a fantasy world....
17:50:17 [zulu9812] or however you spell it
17:50:20 [ImmortalWombat] uh-huh
17:50:31 [GP] total manhours, vel. coding, art, design, admin?
17:50:34 [zulu9812] 4x?
17:50:41 [panag] hi GP
17:50:53 [Chowlett] Vel - div is pretty much pointless in the board-game version, where keeping gold, inf, honour secret is both tricky and hard to police
17:51:03 [GP] Ok to refine your guesses but would be good to start thinking about this in terms of planning
17:51:21 [Chowlett] eXpand, eXplore, eXterminate and something else
17:51:37 [GP] you have a schedule with milesotnes. The natural question is to estimate how much work it will take to get there.
17:51:40 [Velociryx] GP: will have a better idea of that once v0.1 is out....that'll give us a good sense of what we can do, and how long it takes us
17:51:59 [Velociryx] at this point, given that v0.1 represents the first of the code work, I just don't know....
17:52:00 [Stefu] Okay, I've read it. I have two things to say.
17:52:12 [Stefu] (It being Laz's private message.)
17:52:13 [Chowlett] at last check, the coding team was still on target for their projected 0.1 date
17:52:26 [Velociryx] on average, our coders have committed to 5-10 hours a week
17:52:30 [GP] panag> hey dude. Haven't seen much of you lately!
17:52:32 [cyclotron7] %$^#&@*... alright, I have to leave again, brb in 1/2 an hour
17:52:49 [Velociryx] and the total dev time for v0.1 in terms of coding was about six weeks
17:52:54 [GP] well how long to get v 0.1?
17:53:02 [GP] oh
17:53:08 [panag] be nice , or go fishing , dont start hé
17:53:13 [GP] what does that mean in man hours
17:53:13 [Stefu] First of all, George W. Bush's marriage is, and I shudder saying this, not sexless. Some time back, he gave an interview where he said that he was going to the ranch for a holiday and spend some 'quality time' with Laura, heh, heh. I still shy from the thought.
17:53:14 [Velociryx] I have not checked with Ram to see if people exceeded their hours pledged for the project, or if we had less
17:53:27 [Velociryx] so I'm not sure about the total hours taken
17:53:36 [panag] newport news , are looking for people
17:53:50 [panag] what ya say , GP
17:54:01 [panag] its for the 741
17:54:09 [RonJeremy] Stefu- I'm going to have nightmares now.
17:54:36 [GP] So vel, just do the calc assuming that hours worked were same as expected
17:54:49 [ImmortalWombat] Stefu-you cannot keep discussing this thread without making its contents public :doitnow!:
17:54:50 [zulu9812] vel, is this an actual pc computer game?
17:54:51 [GP] what function, p?
17:55:06 [Velociryx] it is, Zulu....or soon will be!
17:55:13 [panag] general director , .....
17:55:14 [Stefu] Also, I'm deeply sorry for extermination of porn fairies. I'll stop for some time, mainly because I've already seen all the good videos filesharing systems have to offer. All that's left is gay stuff, farm love, "look what female genitalia can do" stuff and kid porn, and I'm not going to touch'em.
17:55:19 [zulu9812] any idea for a release schedule yet?
17:55:24 [panag] the current one , ....
17:55:37 [panag] likes the sec's to much
17:55:39 [Velociryx] Chowlett....just realized I had not responded to the Div. point...quite so....pretty useless in the board game, but a godsend in the comp version
17:55:49 [GP] stop with the commas
17:56:00 [panag] yes sir
17:56:04 [Chowlett] verily - I can see that being good
17:56:08 [GP] good
17:56:16 [Stefu] Besides, I saw this Japanese porn video. There wasn't anything truly sick in it, but the way those Japanese masturbated on woman in a way that the come was left hanging on vagina... Eeeka eeka eek. Those Japanese are weird - weird.
17:56:48 [RonJeremy] Thank you for sharing that.
17:56:52 [Chowlett] is there any way to ignore in this chat?
17:56:55 [Velociryx] and GP....will have to sit down with ram, based on current productivity on v0.1 and see if we can come up with a viable starting point for an answer to that
17:56:57 [GP] Vel, when is v0,1 due?
17:57:00 [ImmortalWombat] you just killed my porn fairy for the night, Stefu
17:57:05 [panag] lol
17:57:13 [Ecthelion] hey folks
17:57:16 [GP] no...you can do it right now
17:57:29 [Ecthelion] this room is full of ACS prominence... now
17:57:36 [panag] do what ?
17:57:40 [GP] 5 weeks times 7.5 hours times # of programmers
17:57:42 [Velociryx] once v0.1 is out, we'll be in a position to figure out how much work it's gonna take (estimated man hours) to cross the finish line, and from that, create a roughed up release schedule
17:58:03 [Stefu] Oh, bugger. Now I was left thinking of it. Damn Japanese. At least it didn't appear to be one of those famous Japanese scat videos - or one of famous Japanese rape videos.
17:58:25 [panag] hmmmmm , get a mac
17:58:33 [panag] works faster
17:58:39 [GP] You can set up an estimate regardless, Vel. Just subdivide the tasks and put a swag next to each task and add up
17:58:52 [zulu9812] anyone know if firaxis have even started on SMAC2 yet?
17:59:10 [panag] say who pays ?
17:59:12 [GP] zulu9812> what are you talking about?
17:59:15 [Apocalypse] Why would Firaxis make SMAC2?
17:59:24 [Chowlett] zulu - erm, no. They don't even have it in the pipeline, I believe
17:59:37 [zulu9812] oh dear, ah well
18:00:03 [Ecthelion] let me say it again... hi
18:00:11 [zulu9812] hi
18:00:12 [Velociryx] yes, that gives us a number, sure....but I would contend that the number it gives us is of somewhat limited value at present
18:00:15 [GP] I see. So v0.1 lacks art or interface? Is it just a hunk of code? Or playable at all?
18:00:23 [Velociryx] Hiya Ecthelion!
18:00:23 [Apocalypse] Yes, but Brian and Tim are gone and Sid hates sequels.
18:00:26 [ImmortalWombat] hello andy
18:00:40 [Stefu] Ehh... Civ2, Civ3?
18:00:42 [GP] TVel, the method is the important thing
18:00:52 [RonJeremy] Does he? Why does he keep doing them?
18:00:55 [ImmortalWombat] add-ons
18:00:56 [GP] take uncertainty and start narrrowing down
18:01:19 [Velociryx] v0.1 lacks an artistic interface (functional, from my understanding), and includes the core elements of the game, making it playable from start to finish...core elements would be:
18:01:32 [Apocalypse] Sid started with Colonization, got tired since it was too similar to Civ and had Brian do most of it.
18:01:40 [Velociryx] game engine itself, combat model (auto-calc'd combat), honor, influence, and gold tracking
18:01:46 [Ecthelion] yeah, whatever, ythis is boring as any German poster that is not me, so g'night againb
18:01:48 [Apocalypse] Sid also had Brian and Jeff head up the Civ2 and Civ3 projects.
18:02:00 [GP] What do you see as you play? Are there placeholders for the art?
18:02:02 [Chowlett] there are apparently rumours that Sid is converting his civ to a board game
18:02:02 [Velociryx] church intercessions, and Temples/Barracks as the only buildings for provincial improvements
18:02:08 [Apocalypse] Sid has never been been even moderately involved in a sequel.
18:02:46 [GP] Sid never made any civ games
18:02:54 [Velociryx] the main map will be constructed using an early draft of our terrain tile set (made in bryce3d, touched up in photoshop), with simple placeholder graphics for temples, barracks, and armies
18:02:59 [GP] AAOE dude make Civ1
18:03:11 [Velociryx] at this point, the army interface screen is pretty much gonna be spreadsheet style, as I understand it
18:03:15 [GP] ok vel
18:03:18 [Velociryx] just enough to make it work
18:03:39 [Apocalypse] Sid had a lot to do with Civ1. AOE dude had quite a bit too.
18:03:46 [GP] what is the army interface screen?
18:03:51 [GP] AOE
18:04:07 [zulu9812] k
18:04:24 [Velociryx] army interface = where you see what troops you have in a given army...and where combat results would be posted when that army fights
18:04:34 [Apocalypse] Sid had enough to do with Civ to have his fill of that genre and want to go on to other things.
18:06:12 [GP] ok
18:06:35 [Apocalypse] Brian, on the other hand, likes to stick with the same type of game.
18:06:46 [Stefu] Okay, I posted the porn fairy post.
18:07:01 [panag] what about Breitkreutz , can he do it ?
18:08:28 [Apocalypse] Breitkreutz could. Firaxis is really looking toward other things right now though.
18:08:52 [Velociryx] :: musing:: Porn fairies....hmmm...a new CB unit possibility?
18:09:00 [Velociryx] (an easter egg of some sort...lol)
18:09:20 [Chowlett] eugh
18:09:24 [Velociryx] lol
18:10:02 [Stefu] Maybe an EU-like special event for church faction... "Our bishop has gone to exterminate porn fairies, and he might never return!"
18:10:51 [Velociryx] heh...true...or, a type of non-combat unit....cast a spell, place a porn fairy in a target prov containing enemy units...those units may not move or attack, defend at a penalty (distraction)
18:10:57 [Stefu] What kind of music is there going to be in the game?
18:11:04 [Chowlett] "Please, cna i have just a bit of temptation?"
18:11:26 [Chowlett] Currently - erm - we need a sound guy
18:11:45 [Velociryx] lol Chowlett....and Stefu....sound is something we've only just begun to work up....we've got some interest by a couple of folks who wanna do some music for us
18:12:04 [Velociryx] I'm waiting for exams to be over to have a meeting and get a demo from the folks currently interested
18:12:10 [Stefu] Dead Kennedys - okay, so they might not quite fit the atmosphere, but they're good.
18:12:30 [Velociryx] lol....now THAT would be...intriguing
18:12:32 [Velociryx]
18:14:29 [Stefu] Let's see - we could have "Religious Vomit" or possibly "Moral Majority" as background music for religious guys, "Rambozo the Clown" for Furies, nothing suits the merchant guys like "Kinky Sex Makes World Go Round"... Okay, Kinky Sex isn't music, but still...
18:15:00 [Stefu] No, wait, "Kill the Poor", Kill the Poor for merchant guys.
18:15:08 [Velociryx] LOL Stefu
18:15:28 [Velociryx] Chowlett - to answer your question - Yep...Wizards would get to choose which roll to take in the board game
18:15:45 [Stefu] Wizards is bit harder... I'm getting a scientist feel, so "Well Paid Scientists" could fit. "Man with the dogs" for a bit more mystical feel...
18:15:47 [Chowlett] blimey - good response time!
18:15:47 [Velociryx] another reason I'm thinking of ditching that one and giving them both Divination and Pesti for the compu version
18:16:11 [Velociryx] that smacks of implementation problems in the board game, esp. where auto resolved combat is concerned...too MicroManagement intensive, methinks
18:16:20 [Apocalypse] War Emblem lost
18:17:05 [Stefu] And what's left? Oh yes, the Council of Seven... hmm. "I Am The Owl", after all, that's what keeps democracy up and running...
18:17:22 [Velociryx] lol
18:18:21 [Stefu] Opening music would naturally be "Holiday in Cambodia", just because it's such a kick-ass tune. Dead Kennedys for CB background music! Of course, you'd have to ask the Jelloless DK (which, I think, currently holds the rights)
18:18:28 [ImmortalWombat] "I Kill Children"
18:18:37 [Stefu] But they were selling out for Nike - so they should sell out for you too.
18:19:07 [Stefu] Maybe I Kill Children for when they have the opening story, those subterrnaeans and all? God told me to skin you alive!
18:20:15 [Velociryx] Intriguing as that sounds, I think the Dead Kennedys would prolly have a cow if we co-opted their music for the game...we'll likely have to go with something all original
18:20:38 [ImmortalWombat] for war with Dictatorships: "Nazi punks f**k off"
18:20:51 [Velociryx] that said...if anybody here is musically inclined and looking for a way to get your music heard....send me a demo?
18:20:54 [Stefu] I was just reminded of DKs as I was listening to Jello Biafra's post-DK cd with Mojo Nixon... that offers a rollicking tune or two, too. Ohh, will the fetus be aborted, by and by, God, by and by?
18:20:58 [Chowlett] "have a cow" - some weird kind of sacrificial rite?
18:21:14 [Velociryx] LOL...indeed yes...
18:21:23 [ImmortalWombat] will CB have a cow unit?
18:21:39 [Velociryx] hmmm...no current plans for a cow unit, but we might be persuaded...lol
18:21:41 [Chowlett] I think we have to make some reference to cows...
18:21:48 [Stefu] Bring back the cow! :doitnow!:
18:21:48 [Velociryx] battle cows....Hmmm...
18:21:51 [ImmortalWombat] yay! every good game has a cow unit
18:21:58 [Stefu] BRING BACK THE COW!
18:22:03 [GP] I saw Mojo Nixon play at a bar in San Diego.
18:22:15 [ImmortalWombat] except Civ3 I asked Jeff, and he said no
18:22:17 [Stefu] IW, maybe that's why CtP sucked... they forgot the Cow, and their game was foomed.
18:22:22 [Stefu] Doomed.
18:22:47 [Chowlett] what about SMAC? That rocked, and is singularly lacking a cow
18:22:56 [Chowlett] Then again, you can make Trance Formers
18:22:56 [SpencerH] I havent seen any plans for random barbarian type guys running about Are there such units?
18:23:09 [Velociryx] but just imagine....a cow with a singularity reactor....wow
18:23:10 [ImmortalWombat] CtP had a cow, silly Fin
18:23:14 [GP] Addicted was better than Universe
18:23:32 [Velociryx] SpencerH - No random barb type units in the game, but some similar possibilities therein....
18:23:38 [SpencerH] If there is, why not use mythological beasts instead
18:23:41 [Stefu] No it didn't, at least the original version... there was cow spriet, but that was that.
18:23:49 [Velociryx] examples would include Mercs....a bit of a danger to make extensive use of....
18:23:55 [Chowlett] Vel - wouldn't that mean it's get sucked into it's own stomach?
18:24:15 [Velociryx] if Mercs ever outnumber your regular troops, they'll toss your troops out of the prov in question and take control of the territory
18:24:20 [Velociryx] (prov reverts to neutrality)
18:24:30 [Velociryx] LOL....I think you're right, Chowlett...
18:24:35 [Stefu] Actually, I've got this merc system I've been wanting to have in some game for a long time. Wanna hear?
18:24:38 [GP] gotta go all. Take care.
18:24:39 [ImmortalWombat] hidden unit still counts. most games dont have actual cows
18:24:42 [Velociryx] also, Fate Cards may bring Nilrogg into the equation
18:24:47 [FeistyHaremChic] cya GP
18:24:51 [Chowlett] We are "The company that listens to the public"
18:24:58 [Velociryx] 'k....be well GP!
18:24:59 [Chowlett] And yes, I just made that up
18:25:06 [Chowlett] cya GP
18:25:07 [GP] later Cali gal
18:25:10 [Velociryx] absolutely Stefu!
18:25:17 [GP] and ve
18:25:23 [ImmortalWombat] cya
18:25:29 [Velociryx] Mighta just made it up Chowlett, but it's true!
18:25:51 [Stefu] OK, let's see if I still remember all... originally a Civ3 suggestion. First of all, we'd have merc pool, with mercenary groups available to all factions... Might work best with gameworld like CB, actually.
18:26:24 [Stefu] Each faction can bid from the merc pool... It could be just "Check the merc pool, if there's anything interesting, buy it" or real bidding.
18:27:08 [Stefu] Mercs all come in groups... For instance, one group might have 6 archers, another 2 cavalry and 2 horse archers. You have to keep the group together... I presume CB has stacks?
18:27:28 [Velociryx] it does....
18:27:33 [Chowlett] I believe we are heading down that route, yes.
18:28:01 [SpencerH] An alternative to a pool might be roving bands of mercs of different strengths and units you can hire them if they're in your province
18:28:11 [Stefu] Now, you have to pay the starting cost for mercs, and you have to pay upkeep each turn... It might get quite expensive to have an all-merc army. And if money ends, bang, boom, mercs don't serve you, they might even turn against you.
18:28:33 [OzzyKP] howdy folks
18:28:50 [Chowlett] evenin' Ozzy
18:28:52 [ImmortalWombat] Cossacks has mercenaries
18:28:54 [Stefu] However, mercs have uses... Does CB have factions-specific units? Merc system would be a way to get your hands on other factions' units...
18:28:55 [SRW_BlackHawk] hello
18:29:05 [Pythagoras] sup
18:29:24 [SRW_BlackHawk] whats the topic??
18:29:37 [Chowlett] we did, but the one we had was heinously overpowered. More are, I believe, planned
18:29:41 [Pythagoras] games made by sid meier
18:29:44 [Chowlett] Blackhawn - Candle'Bre
18:29:44 [SpencerH] it would also make for an interesting dirty op to subvert your enemies mercs
18:29:50 [SRW_BlackHawk]
18:29:56 [Stefu] And of course mercs are unreliable... you might make a better offer to merc group that's coming to attack you, and they turn on your side... for a time. OTOH, if merc group keeps loyalty for long enough, they might become your own units. Like Swiss Guards for pope..
18:29:57 [Velociryx] Not any faction specific unts just yet, Spencer....we had one, but it proved to be overpowered
18:30:01 [Chowlett] ?
18:30:09 [Chowlett] Blackhawk - why
18:30:28 [Chowlett] well, perhaps not planned, but at least mooted.
18:30:30 [SRW_BlackHawk] i havent bought civ3 yet but i got 1 and 2
18:30:31 [Pythagoras] I like the merc idea, couldnt you just add unit trading and someone could trade x units for some amound of money/turn, or tech or anything else you can trade
18:30:40 [Pythagoras] for 20 turns
18:30:49 [Stefu] Even a poor nation might be able to keep mercs, if they loot lots of provinces and share the loot generously...
18:31:11 [SRW_BlackHawk] i play EE to much to but civ3
18:31:15 [Chowlett] currently, units can be gifted in exchange for honour. I don't know what our take on trading is yet
18:31:22 [SRW_BlackHawk] buy*
18:31:27 [SpencerH] the key point is that mercs should be very powerful. professional soldiers generally are
18:31:41 [Stefu] And I like merc pool idea myself best. It symbolizes mercs serving any master who might pay them much enough... And in small setting like CB, mercs are available for everyone.
18:31:41 [Velociryx] Yes...unit trading is something very definitely planned....that's a big part of Honor, as Chowlett said....
18:32:10 [Velociryx] Stefu...I like the sounds of the idea....I'm thinking it's something we can very definitely make use of....
18:32:22 [SRW_BlackHawk] :'(
18:32:29 [Stefu] Yes, mercs should be very powerful. Does CB have unit experience? If it has, then good way to balance mercs would be for them to not get more experience... They'd be permanently stuck on second- or third highest ladder.
18:32:37 [Pythagoras] how are governments handled? social engineering?
18:32:40 [ImmortalWombat] either make mercs cheap and crap (last resort, no loyalty) or good and expensive (hired arms, fighting for cash)
18:32:42 [SpencerH] the trick is that there shouldnt be many and they should be expensive and without honor so they can change sides
18:32:51 [FeistyHaremChic] wb Cyclo
18:32:54 [Velociryx] as I see it, mercs would fall into two essential categories....we've got soldiers who are not part of the regular army (ruffians rousted out of taverns and pressed into service for short durations)
18:33:13 [Velociryx] and a professional merc pool, filled with (historic) bands of soliders and leaders for hire
18:33:28 [Velociryx] we could even give them their own provincial build, a Mercenary Guild Hall or somesuch
18:33:29 [Pythagoras] that sounds like a form of conscription (the former)
18:33:32 [cyclotron7] God, give me the strength to smite Internet Explorer...
18:33:42 [Stefu] Couldn't a faction just force-conscript the ruffians? They're not real mercs..
18:33:47 [Chowlett] Stefu - currently, in a sort of "old traditions" style thing, Candle'Bre mercs don't see the benefits of technology, which weakens them a little late game
18:33:50 [Velociryx] those who invest in such provincial builds would gain gain access to the pool....
18:33:51 [Pythagoras] lol
18:33:53 [cyclotron7] Anyways, what's the topic?
18:33:59 [ImmortalWombat] Vel, have you played Cossacks?
18:34:12 [Velociryx] I have not played Cossacks yet...looks great tho!
18:34:20 [Pythagoras] Candle'Bre and Mercs it would seem
18:34:25 [Chowlett] currently discussing Stefu's mercenary idea. scroll up and read, it's quite good
18:34:48 [cyclotron7] Well, I guessed the topic was Candle'bre...
18:34:58 [SRW_BlackHawk] i have never played either
18:35:11 [SRW_BlackHawk]
18:35:12 [ImmortalWombat] has a mercenary guild, which allows vast quantities of cheap merc units, that suck gold from your stockpile. They aren't very good fighters, but they are cheap
18:35:18 [Stefu] Does CB have generals or other kinds of leaders? What I wanted to see in Civ3 would be for leaders to gain a bit personality and there being, for instance, a way to see how much glory your general's got... but they're little more than glorified stacks and buildrushers.
18:35:26 [ImmortalWombat] when you run out of gold, they flip to neutral players, and attack anyone
18:35:35 [Stefu] leaders=combat leaders, ones you get after battles.
18:35:37 [Velociryx] Pythagoras...agreed re: conscription....might see that changing the name of our current "mercs" to make room for the merc pool idea, which I really do like
18:35:58 [Velociryx] Stefu....we've got that in the works as of the latest rendition of the tactical combat model discussed on the cb forums
18:36:09 [Velociryx] most of the ideas FOR that came from listening to the fans, btw....
18:36:13 [SpencerH] I think the merc pool and guild hall to have access are good
18:36:30 [cyclotron7] Yes... we are after all, all fans
18:36:40 [Velociryx] lol...true Cyclo
18:37:20 [cyclotron7] Since fans are not often productive, though, we have the coding team locked up somewhere doing the real work.
18:37:32 [Stefu] Okay, I think I'll play a bit EU2 now. I've got this really good Bohemia going - I've taken almost all of Austria, fair chunk of Poland, and some parts of German states.
18:38:11 [Pythagoras] is EU2 as buggy as EU1?
18:38:13 [M@ni@c] What year are you?
18:38:19 [Velociryx] lol....but we feed 'em lossa choccy cake
18:38:22 [cyclotron7] If there was a way to, I would be playing Civ3 right now... but it's not windowed!
18:38:33 [Velociryx] EU2...oh man how I am looking forward to that game
18:38:34 [Stefu] Odd game though... England and France went through few civil wars which resulted to there being Puritans, French Catholics and Huguenots, all in the same time... and at one phase catholic Grenada seceeded from Protestant Spain...
18:38:35 [cyclotron7] Which reminds me, will Candle'bre be windowed?
18:38:41 [ImmortalWombat] alt-tab
18:38:41 [Velociryx] haven't bought it yet, but it's on the list
18:38:50 [Stefu] M@ni@c: I think 1640 or so.
18:38:55 [SpencerH] I dont see the point of weak mercs from conscripts though
18:39:00 [Velociryx] cyclo....iirc, that's the plan...kimchi and ram were discussing that recently
18:39:08 [cyclotron7] alt-tab tends to crash stuff. Besides, I have enough problems with IE.
18:39:09 [SRW_BlackHawk] is civ3
18:39:16 [SRW_BlackHawk] that good
18:39:19 [Velociryx] spencer....have you ever played a board game called Shogun?
18:39:22 [cyclotron7] Very good.
18:39:31 [Velociryx] by the same folks that made axis and allies ? (same design crew)
18:39:37 [SpencerH] no
18:39:50 [Pythagoras] Shogun is cool
18:39:56 [SRW_BlackHawk] im so stuck on aoc.aoe ee or just RTS games
18:39:58 [Pythagoras] gotta have decent graphics though
18:40:01 [SpencerH] I havent played any board games for about 30 years
18:40:01 [Velociryx] ahh...the notion behind the cheap and short duration "mercs" is based around the ronin concept of that game
18:40:10 [Velociryx] hire them on a short term basis for a specific combat
18:40:11 [Stefu] cyclotron: What's the problem? Just alt-tab! Sure, it slows down the puter, but what the heck...
18:40:19 [Velociryx] they're grunts....body bags...lol
18:40:24 [Pythagoras] cool
18:40:35 [Velociryx] basically, they help you cover your losses wrt to your "regular" military units
18:41:12 [SpencerH] I think there should be conscripts as weak spearmen types
18:41:21 [cyclotron7] Ok, that seems to work...
18:41:35 [Velociryx] (that's also where the initial "tiered" combat system came from...Shogun was a game well ahead of its time, IMO
18:41:46 [Trip] Wow, with so many people in here I thought I'd see one of them Firaxis types in here
18:42:04 [Velociryx] We're Candle'Brewing, Trip...and welcome!
18:42:10 [Pythagoras] yeah I really wish there were more "great battles games" ala gettysburg/antietam
18:42:17 [Pythagoras] that was really good RTS IMO
18:42:23 [Velociryx] Spencer...that's essentially what I had in mind when I made the unit type, yes
18:42:27 [SpencerH] It would fit into a feudal type civ very well but not with a "roman" type civ
18:42:35 [Apocalypse] Have you tried Waterloo?
18:42:44 [Velociryx] and, I think it can still be made to work hand in hand with the merc pool model
18:42:51 [Velociryx] just rename the current merc unit
18:42:53 [Trip] brewing eh, sounds naughty
18:42:55 [Velociryx] and we should be all set
18:43:00 [Pythagoras] No, none of those games work well in Win2k
18:43:05 [Velociryx] lol....sometimes....
18:43:33 [Pythagoras] heh I have had no luck with gettysburg
18:43:38 [cyclotron7] Vel, we're in place for v0.1, right... what are our plans for the next iteration?
18:43:43 [SpencerH] you mean waterloo the boardgame?
18:43:57 [Pythagoras] no the video game based off of the gettysburg engine
18:43:58 [SRW_BlackHawk] XP runs pretty bad with any games i have
18:44:11 [Velociryx] so far, we're on track, Master Cyclo! As for the next iteration, Ram had expressed a big interest in working the tech tree and fate engine into the mix for v0.2
18:44:17 [Apocalypse] No, Waterloo the game that uses the Gettysburg engine.
18:44:28 [Pythagoras] XP is a b*tch, Ill stick to win2k
18:44:29 [Velociryx] which will see *almost* all of the essential elements falling into place at that point
18:44:36 [cyclotron7] OK... what is the extent of tech tree and fate cards in v0.1?
18:44:43 [cyclotron7] God, I love XP...
18:44:52 [SpencerH] I've heard of it and I'd like to get it. I had the board wargame by SSI (?)
18:45:03 [Velociryx] nonexistant in v0.1....Temples and Barracks will be the only provincial improvements in the game
18:45:19 [Pythagoras] SSI made boardgames?
18:45:20 [Velociryx] (so...not anything in the way of strategy where provincial improvements are concerned)
18:45:21 [SpencerH] I like gettysburg and antietam
18:45:33 [cyclotron7] OK... are we at any loss for improvements? Do we need a thread on that? I haven't viewed the core rules lately...
18:45:37 [Pythagoras] yeah so do I
18:45:48 [SpencerH] its all in the cannon
18:46:10 [ImmortalWombat] I gtg.cya guys
18:46:29 [cyclotron7] see you later, IW
18:47:18 [Velociryx] I think we're ok where the total list of improvements for the free release is concerned, but I'm putting the finishing touches on a HUGE document concerning the societal model (combined the work I had done to date on it with your document and have been hammering it all together)
18:47:27 [SpencerH] I'm not sure of the game producers names there was avalon hill , and then a company called ...strategy ...? that brought out some graet wargames including the war in the east and waterloo
18:47:37 [SRW_BlackHawk] beside Civ3 is there another game anyone else is enjoying
18:47:37 [cyclotron7] Is our harbor scheme in that too?
18:47:39 [Velociryx] once that's on the forum, we'll prolly need a few threads directly relating to it
18:47:45 [Velociryx] it is....
18:47:56 [Pythagoras] My fav. strategy board game has to be twilight imperium
18:48:07 [cyclotron7] OK, because the lakesides need to be balanced as soon as possible...
18:48:08 [Pythagoras] awesome space conquest IMO
18:48:22 [Pythagoras] but I havent played it in years
18:48:29 [SRW_BlackHawk] hmmmm
18:48:54 [SRW_BlackHawk] anyone heard anything about RoN
18:49:00 [SpencerH] I'm playing shogun total war
18:49:12 [M@ni@c] And EU2
18:49:17 [Velociryx] the main thing I'm doing with regards to the model is incorporating all the latest thinking into it....RPM's ideas wrt to controlling the military thru resources, balancing bigger empires with bigger beurocracy problems (scalable), and making everything hang together
18:49:39 [Velociryx] one HUGELY important concept that the discussion on elemental sigils brought to the fore is the notion of
18:49:45 [Pythagoras] RoN just looks to suspicously like AoK... maybe Im wrong here, Ill see what BR does
18:49:47 [cyclotron7] Well, I'm playign Myst3...
18:49:54 [Velociryx] multi-branching combinations....which now plays a big part in the way I'm shaping the societal model
18:50:23 [SRW_BlackHawk] RoN looks great nothing like aoc
18:50:36 [M@ni@c] Anyway, gotta go now. I was just taking a look how this chat room works. Velociryx, there's a message waiting on you in the AC-General Forum.
18:50:49 [SRW_BlackHawk] i put so much faith and EE then they let me down damn sierra
18:51:05 [Velociryx] 'k M@ni@c! and thanks for the heads up!
18:51:30 [SRW_BlackHawk]
18:52:16 [M@ni@c] See ye. Just to say, though I may not agree with some, I appreciate your view on things.
18:52:25 [SRW_BlackHawk] hmmm
18:52:41 [Velociryx] Thanks man! I've found the discussion there to be REALLY interesting thus far!
18:52:46 [Velociryx] poof...too slow on the draw that time
18:53:00 [SRW_BlackHawk] lol
18:54:26 [SRW_BlackHawk] gets quiet quick here
18:54:30 [Velociryx] one of the biggest, most important things I'd like to accomplish with CB is to create a game world with an incredible amount of depth....
18:55:05 [cyclotron7] Yep
18:55:16 [Apocalypse] Is CB going to push some deep philosophical message?
18:55:18 [Velociryx] An important hallmark of replayability, IMO, resides in the notion that a game has so much to do...so many possibilities that
18:55:31 [Velociryx] you simply can't "see everything" in a single, or even a few dozen playings
18:56:14 [Velociryx] that ongoing sense of discovery is of *vital* importance to me, and weighs constantly on my mind as I'm putting together models of the stuff we've discussed so far in the threads here at 'poly
18:56:30 [Chowlett] Apoc - dunno. But if someone comes up with a game that has a deep MASSAGE, I'll buy it like a shot.
18:56:57 [Velociryx] This is a direct outgrowth of the biggest problem I have with Civ/SMAC, and other games in the genre....
18:57:21 [Velociryx] it IS possible in those games to research every tech, to build every improvement in every city....to pretty much see everything.
18:57:40 [Velociryx] The notion of Minor Wonders introduced by Civ3 is, IMO, one of the best innovations that game brings to the table....
18:57:54 [Velociryx] for example: in all the games I've played, I've only gotten to build the ironworks twice
18:57:57 [Velociryx] that's really cool
18:58:10 [Zealot] hi everybody!
18:58:16 [Zealot] hiya vel!
18:58:17 [Velociryx] That stands out in my mind, and makes the event (and the rare occassion when I DO get to build it) really memorable
18:58:23 [Velociryx] Hiya Zealot!
18:58:35 [Velociryx] That's the kind of feeling I wanna make sure we incorporate
18:58:42 [Zealot] hi ppl from Candle Bre
18:59:03 [FeistyHaremChic] howdy Z
18:59:06 [cyclotron7] Hello...
18:59:25 [Velociryx] Wrt to a deep philosophical message....don't think so....or at least, none that I'm consciously aware of
18:59:27 [Chaunk] Thats gonna make balancing the game a nightmare if every game only has a small %age of stuff used no?
18:59:31 [cyclotron7] Vel: You've seen my potential small wonder list, right?
18:59:33 [Zealot] so, what's up?
18:59:47 [Velociryx] the hope is though, that by creating such depth, people will find their own messages in the thick of it.
19:00:03 [Velociryx] And Cyclo! I sure have....IMO, that's EXACTLY the kind of thing we need more of
19:00:27 [Apocalypse] The thing is, if there is a philosophical message, it would give me chance to plug the game in various newsgroups and message boards.
19:00:36 [Hagbart] what's up?
19:00:37 [Velociryx] builds based around a set of conditions....perhaps only one or two for fairly common "minor wonders" or a complex array of conditions that might only rarely be met for the more exotic one
19:00:51 [Velociryx] hmmm....a good point Apoc....
19:00:58 [Velociryx] hadn't really considered that....
19:01:13 [cyclotron7] OK, then... I'll go brainstorm s'more soon.
19:01:16 [Velociryx] Talking about Candle'Bre, Hagbart! Join us!
19:01:25 [Velociryx] That'd be outstanding!
19:01:28 [Apocalypse] It is a common stereotype that PC games, especially strategy games, lack in story and meaning. This way, everytime that comes up, I can say "Hey, you're wrong. Check out this great game."
19:01:53 [Velociryx] And....just you wait till you see how the societal model is coming together with all the latest thinking....the big thing I've been able to accomplish so far is to
19:01:55 [Apocalypse] Then I will proceed to point them to information about Candle'Bre.
19:02:03 [Velociryx] define all the traits that make up the various elements
19:02:04 [Zealot] this is looking so well...
19:02:20 [Velociryx] make those traits tied into the system as a whole...it's really becoming dynamic
19:02:32 [Hagbart] ...what is candle'bre?
19:02:51 [Zealot] LOL
19:02:52 [Velociryx] Apoc....yes, that would be a strong selling point....perhaps when the societal model is done and posted we'll be able to go fishing for some hidden messages....that might be kinna cool...
19:03:01 [Velociryx] better still, to build some into the fabric of the game...
19:03:24 [Velociryx] Hagbart, CB is a 4x, civ/eu/mom style turn based strategy game set in a fantasy world
19:03:33 [Zealot] check the Candle Bre forum, Hagbart
19:03:57 [Hagbart] ok, never heard about it, ill check the forum
19:04:24 [Velociryx] What I'm working on now is creating new provincial builds that are not tied to the tech tree specifically, but rather, to the existing builds in combination (and sometimes, in combination with specific non-combat oriented units)
19:04:30 [cyclotron7] Zealot, I can't see that color very well...
19:04:48 [Velociryx] this is a notion born directly from the sigil conversations we've been having, and opens up HUGE possibilities
19:04:52 [Apocalypse] I think the storyline alone will put this game above others. If the mechanics are also good, this will be a really great game.
19:05:29 [Zealot] don't worry cyclotron, it was just to get hagbart's attention
19:06:02 [Velociryx] Thanks man! I'm hoping that's how it shakes out, and I can tell you that with the ideas we've got coming together (lots of them submitted by fans and people interested in the project) that we'll have all the ingredients for a cult classic when we're done!
19:06:50 [Zealot] and we all now that cult classics are the type of games that make good money, right?
19:06:57 [Velociryx] I've already started the process of weeding through our basic ideas list, and as soon as I get the societal model to a point where it makes sense to someone besides me....still working on that part...I think that the essence of the game will begin to really crystalize around the key areas we've
19:07:13 [Velociryx] discussed so far....(combat, magic system, fate, etc)
19:07:25 [Velociryx] I'm hoping so!
19:08:27 [Zealot] so, you're making traits like in moo2 and EOFS?
19:08:50 [cyclotron7] Not so much traits as abilities.
19:09:13 [Zealot] what, then?
19:09:21 [cyclotron7] In Civ, ideally traits would evolve, but that' over 1000s of years so we can't logically expect that from CB.
19:10:03 [cyclotron7] You mean individual faction abilities?
19:10:12 [Velociryx] Right....the factions in the game have a certain set of abilities....traits will come into play (or something like them) in terms of governmental choices and building provincial improvements in certain combination....that part is proving to be a bear to document, and why the model is taking a while
19:10:17 [Velociryx] to come together fully
19:10:55 [Velociryx] for example: in a given province, you build a temple....that provides you with the benefits of the temple (influence with the church, and a happiness effect for religous folks in your province)
19:11:16 [cyclotron7] Precisely. Your faction will have certain abilities, while your people aquire different psychological characteristics depending on the choices you make with government, etc.
19:12:03 [Velociryx] so...if you build a barracks there also, you get the benefits of being able to train regular troops in the province, but the barracks might make some citizen archetypes a bit unhappy....the interesting thing though, is that
19:12:44 [Zealot] is that........ :eager:
19:12:53 [Hagbart] when did you start creating this?
19:13:05 [Velociryx] thanks to the presence of the temple and barracks existing in the province, you now (conjecturally, purely on paper at this point) have the option of building a "Cathedral of the Knights Templar" which combines the effect of the temple and barracks,
19:13:07 [UberKruX] lol.
19:13:11 [UberKruX] how did i exit the room
19:13:39 [Velociryx] allowing you to train a new "Templar" unit, that may have special abilities relating to religion (ie - the presence of a templar in a province that has no temple might make construction of a temple there cheaper)
19:13:54 [Velociryx] or....it might make intercessions cheaper, the more templars you have....stuff like that
19:14:24 [cyclotron7] I don't know, Uber. Maybe just for fun.
19:14:26 [Hagbart] why is it called candle'bre
19:14:37 [Velociryx] adding a market to that province might change the nature of the templar's abilities, enabling them to be hired out to other factions.....(that's just an off the top of my head idea to give you a sense of how the system can be made fluid)
19:15:22 [Velociryx] Hagbart....we started in...IIRC, late january of this year, and the name was just the first thing that popped into my head as we were discussing AI in a civ3 general thread
19:15:37 [Velociryx] from that, we got the basic ideas of the game, and poof...here we all are...
19:15:52 [cyclotron7] Yes, but the fluidily will only come into play in later versions. I think we may be stepping towards a governmental slider in earlier versions, but right now the mechanics are going through coding.
19:16:32 [Velociryx] absolutely....all of the stuff (or at least the bulk of it) that we're discussing on the 'poly forums is for builds some distance down the road
19:17:01 [Velociryx] the most important task in the immediacy is to get a basic version of the game out that's scalable, so we can take it where we wanna go
19:17:14 [Hagbart] Will it ever be finished or are you creating it for the fun itself?
19:17:59 [Velociryx] oh it'll be finished...we've got a constant swirl of ideas, but as time goes by, we'll begin solidifying those more and more (a process that's actually already begun)
19:18:15 [Velociryx] v0.1's feature set is established, and v0.2's is pretty well established....
19:18:29 [cyclotron7] Actually, we are bearing down on the v0.1 release... so it will be finished.
19:18:56 [Hagbart] it will be a free game, right?
19:19:00 [Velociryx] right now, the discussions we're hosting here at 'poly are the ones that exist in the final stages of the game's creation cycle....once we get the particulars nailed down, we're done with that
19:19:00 [Zealot] when a public release guys?
19:19:09 [cyclotron7] f*cking IE... now I can't access poly. Damn, is their server down or is it just IE?
19:19:36 [Apocalypse] I think the server is messed up.
19:19:54 [Apocalypse] No, wait, it is working for me now.
19:20:04 [Hagbart] working for me too...
19:20:06 [cyclotron7] *does the F*ck IE dance* No, I just got in. My browser just...sucks.
19:20:17 [Velociryx] Zealot....wish I had a firm answer to that one....soon as v0.1 is out and we find out what we did right (and wrong) we'll be in a better position to estimate that part
19:21:40 [Velociryx] The first public release for testing will have all the board game rules in place though, and we shouldn't be tooooo much longer getting to that point.....
19:21:53 [Velociryx] in short form then, the first public test version will look something like this:
19:22:12 [Velociryx] map, first generation interface, three tech trees to research in, ten levels in each tree
19:22:42 [Velociryx] strategic level combat resolution, honor win, influence used for intercession, infamy advantages/disadvantages in place
19:22:54 [Velociryx] fate card engine with approx 250 events
19:23:19 [Velociryx] approximately 10 different types of provincial improvements....max of three per province
19:23:19 [Zealot] wow! looking pretty good already!
19:23:36 [Zealot] can we expect it by july, or is it still too soon?
19:23:43 [Hagbart] A suggestion: In the Cnadle'bre forum, could you make a top-post "What is Candle'Bre", where you tell a little about it? I'm sure it would help some people who have not heard of it before.
19:23:53 [cyclotron7] Actually...
19:23:56 [Velociryx] and....I'm thinking that's about what we can expect in the way of features....
19:24:29 [cyclotron7] Mark wrote a while ago in the newsletter:
19:24:49 [Hagbart] Why didn't u call it Cnadle'bre, hehe
19:24:49 [Velociryx] Time frame wise....I'd hate to even hazard a guess....I'd imagine that July is probably too soon, but if we keep on as we are at present, I can't see it taking a whole lot longer....there's a lot of enthusiasm now that we're getting closer to v0.1's release
19:24:57 [cyclotron7] Cyclotron7, a member of the team describes the game: Candle'bre is a fantasy turn based game in the works by Velocigames (guess who our leader is... no cash prizes) based on a middle ages envrironment. It is a creative effort to make a TBS game without the constraints of the corporate atmoshpere,
19:24:58 [cyclotron7] and using maximum fan input by implementing some open sourcing and very responsive team members.
19:25:15 [Velociryx] Hagbart...a good idea! I will draft something out and make that a sticky thread, probably starting with Cyclo's synopsis there!
19:25:27 [cyclotron7] Bt hey, I just love quoting myself
19:25:57 [FeistyHaremChic] lol Cyclo
19:25:59 [Velociryx] LOL....you're famous, Cyclo! Quote away!
19:26:12 [Zealot] hehe
19:26:40 [Zealot] gotta go
19:26:43 [Zealot] cya guys
19:26:48 [Velociryx] (as Vel tries hard to artfully dodge pinning down a specific timeframe for the first public release so as not to get hopes up)
19:27:10 [Velociryx] 'k...take care Zealot....and keep a lookout....we'll have something in the public forum before long....I promise you that!
19:27:27 [cyclotron7] Yeah, I know, that's the only newsletter I haven't deleted yet
19:27:43 [Velociryx] lol
19:27:52 [FeistyHaremChic] <--crushed~!
19:28:50 [cyclotron7] OK, check it out: I'm putting a new post in the Wonders thread, so tell me if there's any ideas you have for new wonders... universal, faction, diety, whatever...
19:29:57 [Velociryx] you making the post now? (as in, already got it written and ready to hit submit?)
19:30:37 [Velociryx] I've not had much chance to think in terms of new wonders and such...don't have any ideas for it off the top of my head...been swimming in traits and abilities that define various aspects of the societal model for two days...lol
19:30:48 [cyclotron7] No, not written yet.. give me 15 minutes or so
19:30:59 [cyclotron7] But I love this stuff
19:31:45 [Velociryx] yeah...same here...as frustrating as it's been to swim through the societal stuff (and it HAS been frustrating in places) it's also been a helluva lot of fun
19:32:50 [Velociryx] as an example (since I've got the document I'm creating open at the moment), here's what I've got in terms of the traits that define a province:
19:33:00 [cyclotron7] Well, if you can think of any grand buildings, etc, chat or pm me... especially universal ones (one per game) because I'm swimming in religious wonders
19:34:42 [Velociryx] Name//starting population//tax rate (floating or fixed*)//growth rate//demographics (up to 8 archetypes, by percentage)//disposition of road network (level 1,2,3)//
19:35:40 [Tassadar5000] Hello
19:35:43 [cyclotron7] Whoa, Vel... you sound like Fitz and the culture flip formula
19:35:49 [cyclotron7] Hey Tassadar
19:36:23 [Velociryx] Provincial Improvements present (12 slots for this in the final version)//strategic resources present//four slots for this//organization level//city present (none, town, county seat, city, metropolis)//Base Income Rate//troop training rate//merc hiring rate//and two slots for special abilities
19:36:25 [Velociryx] LOL
19:36:56 [Velociryx] and that's just to define the attributes of a province....then, of course, each of those is expounded upon (ie - what are the 8 archetypes and what makes them tick, etc)
19:37:00 [cyclotron7] btw, this chat applet is about 100 times better than yours, Ve;
19:37:15 [Velociryx] lol...no denying that!
19:38:07 [Velociryx] d'oh...slow on the draw...and Hiya Tassadar!
19:38:59 [Tassadar5000] Hi
19:39:41 [Tassadar5000] So...What are we talking about?
19:40:22 [cyclotron7] Well, Candle'bre
19:40:32 [Chowlett] It's getting late over here, I'm calling it a night. Let me know of any interesting developements after this point.
19:40:43 [Velociryx] Candle'Bre...any and everything relating to it....
19:40:53 [Velociryx] 'k Chowlett...and I'm glad you could make it!
19:40:55 [Blake] Hello
19:41:08 [Velociryx] so...if anybody has any questions, comments, or dirty remarks, fire away!
19:41:11 [FeistyHaremChic] Bye Chowlett!~
19:41:13 [Velociryx] Blake! Howdies man!
19:41:29 [cyclotron7] Bye, Chowlett
19:41:55 [Blake] What are the maps going to be like for the game?
19:42:38 [Velociryx] Blake - most of the action will take place on the main map display...which is essentially a tile based, scrolling map of the kingdom as a whole
19:42:40 [Blake] Will it be based on random maps, or scenerios, is what I'm asking, I think
19:42:58 [Velociryx] graphically, the tiles are being created in Bryce3d and polished in photoshop
19:43:02 [Velociryx] ahhh...gotcha....
19:43:26 [Gazablanca] hello and oink
19:43:29 [Velociryx] right now, we're focusing on the "historical world" which is a set map of the kingdom
19:43:43 [Velociryx] but we're planning on having a random map generator based on our final tileset
19:44:04 [Velociryx] and the hope is that with a high degree of modability, we'll be able to attract the interest of the mod crowd!
19:44:08 [Velociryx] and hello Gaz!
19:45:05 [Blake] always a good idea, are you making it scriptable to any great degree?
19:45:23 [Gazablanca] I have just got in from celebrating England's World Cup Renaissance
19:45:53 [Gazablanca] (albeit,with a little sleep inbetween)
19:46:30 [Velociryx] a scripting language is something we've tossed around a few times, but I'm not 100% sure how its implementation will work...as I understand it, the scripting language would serve as an intermediary between the actual in-game code and the modder's ability to change the rules of the game itself
19:46:44 [cyclotron7] Quick, Vel, What's our fourth Diety, for Trentare?
19:47:12 [Velociryx] as far as what scripting language we'll use to make that happen....unknown at this time, but it's something we've been kicking around...along with some other approaches for building in moddability
19:47:42 [Velociryx] Ummm....J'honsa, Laernan, Kaylar and the Moon god with the funky name that I can't remember the spelling of...lol
19:48:04 [cyclotron7] Thanks, Kaylar. btw, the Moon god is Ollux
19:48:19 [Velociryx] yeah...him...
19:48:43 [Blake] I think a scripting language (like CTP's SLIC, or possibly a bit simpler) is a good idea. I'm not sure if it'd be quite so usful with a java based game tho.
19:48:51 [Kassiopeia] My colour's been nicked...
19:49:26 [Kassiopeia] I'll stick to my secondary then.
19:50:20 [Velociryx] No doubt about it, scripting language = good thing, you're right. Not sure what the final implementation will look like, but we are most definitely designing the game with high moddability in mind....the goal is to create a LARGE attribute set for things like buildings, and have them "flaggable"
19:50:46 [Velociryx] so modders can combine them in new ways to make their own custom buildings and such...same basic thought behind units, techs, and...as much else as we possibly can
19:50:54 [cyclotron7] Sorry, Kass...
19:51:04 [cyclotron7] It's quite visible!
19:51:35 [Blake] Well, the ultimate scripting langauge (ie SLIC) should allow players to implement new, unthought of attributes, the value of that when the source is available is debatable, however.
19:52:05 [Kassiopeia] Bah, tertiary will do.
19:52:41 [Velociryx] I gotta say though, I love the notion of having a wide open field where that's concerned though....having players and modders with the ability to create wholly new abilities and attributes is....awesome
19:53:00 [Velociryx] the potential for scenario making, at that point, is quite literally "sky's the limit"
19:53:34 [Blake] I think what I'll be doing in FreeAC is defining attributes solely on what they effect and make it so they can be bound to anything which could reasonably effect the effectable. There will also be a scope, so you can give the effector a local, faction or global scope.
19:54:05 [Gazablanca] Slic is easily moddable for CTP2...has transformed the game's AI
19:54:31 [Velociryx] that's a good plan....essentially then, you've got a batch of ingredients and leave it to the player to decide whether to tie those ingredients to units, buildings, etc...that rocks
19:54:55 [Velociryx] and yes...I've heard some GREAT things about CTP2's moddability thanks to SLIC...would love to have a moddable AI in CB
19:54:55 [Blake] Yeah, took me a while to come up with it... the design went through several iterations
19:55:02 [Velociryx] and...in truth, a moddable everything!
19:55:56 [Tassadar5000] Well, I must leave now. Have fun, people...
19:55:58 [Velociryx] similar to the direction we're taking, but given the difference in genre, we'll almost have to by default tie certain abilities and traits to certain things...but that's coolio too....
19:56:27 [Velociryx] one of the things I've been having a lot of fun with in my recent work with the societal model (a thing I mentioned earlier) is in combinations....
19:57:10 [Velociryx] provincial builds that are not tech specific per say, but are intimately bound up in what combination(s) of buildings exist in a given province...certain combinations unlock the ability to build certain OTHER buildings, which may be a part of
19:57:24 [Velociryx] an even more advanced combination....wierd stuff, but I'm digging it...lol
19:58:15 [Hagbart] Nice website btw, I suggest that you make a link to it from the forum
19:58:41 [Apocalypse] Well, I have to get going. Before I go; thanks for the information Vel. This has been very interesting.
19:58:52 [Hagbart] I found it when searching for the newsletter post, that cyclo talked about
19:59:08 [Velociryx] Thanks Hagbart! And yes....a good plan...maybe make a sticky thread with that link in it....
19:59:14 [Blake] Yeah, thats important. I'm using activator tags (flags) for that... a thing can set an activator (at a local, faction, global scope) and then effectors which depend on that activator will start effecting. Things cant be built unless they have atleast one active effector...
19:59:45 [Blake] and yeah, easy accessable links are important
20:00:24 [Velociryx] coolio idea, Blake! so then, depending on the activator flag and effector(s) in play, you get your combinations....I like that
20:01:00 [Blake] Yeah
20:01:33 [Blake] And with my binding system you bind an effector to a thing, set the activator, so a thing can have different effects depdning on what activators are present....
20:02:33 [Velociryx] I think I went down a tributary of that basic stream then....basically the centerpiece of the design I went with is the attribute, with attributes being capable of "intertwining" in different ways to create different effects (and one of the offshoots of that is to create a new attribute--usually a
20:02:50 [Velociryx] unit, in my case--that can modify the other attributes that spawned it
20:02:59 [Gazablanca] Some excellent mod's are available for CTP2 now....MedMod and Cradle especially
20:03:14 [Gazablanca] great fun to play on
20:03:18 [Velociryx] yes! I've heard lots of people talking about MedMod
20:03:19 [Blake] Yeah, I love those CTP2 mods.
20:03:34 [Blake] CTP2 +MedMod is better than Civ3, thats for sure.
20:03:49 [Velociryx] need to break down and GET ctp2...the price is certainly right!
20:04:00 [Blake] Better than Civ2 too, not better than SMAC, altough has some advantages over SMAC
20:04:02 [Hagbart] You have a link from the website to another forum, is this the old forum, nolonger used or what? If the Apolyton forum is the forum you use it should point there. I gotta go, bye and good luck with the game!
20:04:17 [Velociryx] MBD....you've been quiet bud...how are ya tonight?
20:04:19 [Blake] I strongly reccomend CTP2 + Mods, some good idea mining potential
20:04:24 [cyclotron7] Thanks, Hagbart.
20:04:38 [Velociryx] ahhh, yes....the old forums haven't been used in some time...we gotta update that link!
20:04:41 [Velociryx] forgot about that
20:04:58 [cyclotron7] Hey Vel, when does this chat officially start, anyways?
20:05:05 [MBD] fine, i'm just here to listen.
20:05:06 [Velociryx] and thanks for joining us, Hagbart!
20:05:15 [FeistyHaremChic] lol
20:05:20 [Velociryx] LOL....the chat officially started a bit after five my time
20:06:06 [HighLordJ] hi
20:06:25 [Velociryx] Gotcha, MBD! That's one thing I like about these chats....never know what you're gonna get....they're...organic in that regard....flowing where they will....I like it tho! Opens up my brain to all sorts of possibilities....had a number of interesting new ideas this evening!
20:06:26 [cyclotron7] What time zone are you?
20:06:32 [Velociryx] And hello HighLordJ!
20:06:49 [FeistyHaremChic] Vel is on the *other* coast!
20:06:53 [Velociryx] Cyclo...eastern....sheesh...what time is it now....8-ish for me?
20:07:02 [HighLordJ] Velociryx you wrote the Aztech-Jag stratgey right?
20:07:11 [Velociryx] Yep...that's me...
20:07:35 [HighLordJ] thanks, that really helped I can finally win on Regent now!
20:08:21 [HighLordJ] constintly that is I had won once before that with the french
20:08:22 [Velociryx] No problem man! Glad I could help! And btw...I just *demolished* the opposition on Emperor using that same basic strat, so give it a whirl when you get time to....it's...spooky...
20:09:13 [HighLordJ] yeah well I have had it close to a month now and it seems I am still not all to good :lol:
20:09:31 [Velociryx] hey...if you put the wrecking ball to Regent, you're ready to rock and roll tho!
20:09:44 [Blake] *sniff* war games are so uncivilised.
20:09:49 [cyclotron7] It's 5:10 here...
20:10:16 [HighLordJ] its ok I won a dimplomtic victory with the french blake!
20:10:22 [Velociryx] <---remembers getting sooooo frustrated with my first couple of games of civ3...started on monarch and got my a$$ handed to me...dropped to regent till I figured some stuff out
20:10:26 [Velociryx] now I'm rolling!
20:10:52 [Blake] Problem is that on harder difficulties Civ3 is a war game.
20:11:07 [HighLordJ] did you play games like this before Civ 3?
20:11:40 [Velociryx] That's too true, Blake...I like Monarch best, in terms of variability, and yes! been playing strategy games since the days of the Tandy 4k computer...LOL
20:12:01 [cyclotron7] BTW: Still working on the wonder post. So far, in addition to the ones already there: Pinnacle of the Sky, Cathedral of Dominion, Shimmering Palace, Wrathful Orb, Submerged Temple, Prophecy Stones... and more coming...
20:12:04 [HighLordJ] I had played Civ 2 on my old mac but I don't really remember anything but talking advisors that I wish were in Civ 3
20:12:10 [Velociryx] well, even before that actually, but been playing *computer* games since then....back when you could buy those code books and type in the programs yourself
20:12:17 [Velociryx] and then spend three days debugging...lol
20:12:17 [Blake] War should be a means to an end... that end being using that awesome empire you built for something.
20:12:39 [Velociryx] Oh! I like the names of those! Especially the Wrathful Orb....wicked possibilities there!
20:12:49 [Velociryx] it's like naming magic: the gathering cards...
20:13:34 [Blake] Also it should keep you on your toes... throw the odd monkey wrench into your smooth running empire. But it shouldn't be the focus of a TBS game.
20:13:40 [Velociryx] ::nodding:: agreed, Blake....I see our early versions of CB as being more or less war games (kinna like advanced Risk) and growing into the empire building elements....
20:14:02 [Velociryx] wanted to start off in that direction so we could get a playable game out relatively quickly (since people like to fight), but in my mind,
20:14:02 [HighLordJ] I used to play Magic I probaly would have kept playing expect my neighbor I used to play with moved and none of my other friends played
20:14:19 [Velociryx] the coolest stuff will start happening when we start adding in the other elements in place....
20:14:24 [Blake] Wargames are what RTS are for
20:14:35 [Velociryx] that's where the real magic comes in....the essence of strategy
20:14:47 [HighLordJ] are war games like Age Of Empires?
20:14:58 [HighLordJ] I played that but it is nothing like Civ
20:15:03 [Blake] More like C&C / TA
20:15:06 [Velociryx] still have a few of my all time favorite magic decks around, but don't play much anymore...all my cards are prolly banned nowadays...heh
20:15:20 [Velociryx] ugh....I can't stand rts tho....clickfests in the end...
20:15:30 [Blake] I don't like AOE
20:15:50 [Velociryx] wb Lady Tia!
20:15:52 [Blake] RA2 is an excellent game, because you dont have heaps of units and the interface is excellent.
20:16:00 [Blake] that is Red Alert 2
20:16:28 [HighLordJ] yeah I had 4th editon magic cards then when I decided to go buy some new kinds recently see if I could get anyone to play with me they are all expansions now
20:16:29 [Velociryx] might have to give it a try....I've not played an rts since war craft ii, which was good, but pretty much burned me out of the genre
20:16:38 [Tiamat] Thank you. I see we are still discussing CB
20:17:00 [Velociryx] ohhh yes...in fits and starts...for a while, some of the folks got off on a "porn fairy" tangent...lol
20:17:08 [Blake] Simplicity is important in an RTS, AOE2 sucks (for me) because it has about a billion possible builds/researches, 5 resources to gather etc....
20:17:16 [HighLordJ] I got scared with all the expansions because all I could remember was Ice Age
20:17:20 [cyclotron7] The only RTS game I play now is ST, because it's so funny
20:17:23 [Tiamat] :blush: Oh MY!
20:17:34 [cyclotron7] HighLord J: Yes, Ice age rules...
20:17:39 [Blake] ST ?
20:17:53 [cyclotron7] Eh, Starcraft
20:17:53 [Velociryx] yeah....that's one thing I kinna find cool about "majesty" (rts style game) is that the resources and taxes and such are all automated....
20:17:53 [FeistyHaremChic] luckily the porn fairy topic faded! lol
20:18:02 [Velociryx] lol...indeed, FHC
20:18:27 [cyclotron7] Should I include that as a wonder?
20:18:29 [Tiamat] wiat you could always make them Porn Mages
20:18:42 [HighLordJ] my brother really got into Heroes of Might and Magic which I play sometimes and it is not too bad if a little chilidish
20:19:04 [Blake] I prefer RTS games with just one, or two, resources. When the designers throw realism out the window and just make the game fun, ie Dune/C&C series, Total Annhilation series....
20:19:07 [Velociryx] LOL Cyclo and Tia....that would ummm...be an interesting twist on the game...
20:19:08 [HighLordJ] tthat is he has #3 now
20:19:30 [Velociryx] HOMM3....ahhhh, fond memories....coolio game....the graphics are still beautiful when stacked up next to games coming out today!
20:19:34 [Blake] hmmm, HOMM was okay. Kinda cool to play for a while.
20:19:49 [Blake] I liked settlers 2, that was a good game.
20:19:52 [Velociryx] (civ3, for example, has inferior graphics, IMO, to homm3....those guys did a bang up job...and the editor was sweet!)
20:20:05 [HighLordJ] I always found the battle scenes so funny
20:20:32 [cyclotron7] I have HOMM2... the battles are pretty funny
20:20:35 [HighLordJ] especally the goblins
20:21:01 [Velociryx] <---loves watching Imps fight in homm3....pathetic little critters...heh)
20:21:11 [HighLordJ] seeing all those little things bouncing about flapping there wings heading towards the wall
20:21:28 [cyclotron7] Well, I like the boars... whenever playing my friend, who likes to be wizard... "mmm, pork <squeal>"
20:21:34 [HighLordJ] maybe that is who I am thinking of can't remember
20:21:41 [Velociryx] lol
20:22:40 [cyclotron7] Actaully, my facorite tactic in HOMM2 was just get an army of one black dragon (so everybody picks fights with me) and cast a high level armegeddon on my first turn.
20:22:56 [Blake] dragons cool
20:22:57 [HighLordJ] I am reading about the Star Wars game in the advertisements in the bottom right and it looks cool
20:23:07 [Velociryx] lol...a thing still effective in homm3....and one of the reasons I LOVE playing the "Dungeon" group...
20:23:17 [cyclotron7] When you have a 20th level character, it kills everyone...
20:23:51 [FeistyHaremChic] bedad
20:23:53 [cyclotron7] ...and the dragons just stand there. "Is it hot out here, or is it just me"? <nuclear armegeddon cloud looming overhead>
20:23:59 [FeistyHaremChic] oops! sorry
20:24:26 [Velociryx] ::nodding:: yes....the one failing of the game, IMO, was that the hero advancement system was so unbalanced....some rocked, others just sucked
20:24:32 [Velociryx] but that aside, a classic game!
20:25:01 [HighLordJ] I miss the cheat menu from Civ 2
20:25:11 [HighLordJ] in civ 3
20:25:47 [HighLordJ] I liked surronding those first cities with nukes and then they ask you to withdraw hehe
20:26:04 [HighLordJ] boom!
20:26:28 [Velociryx] hmmm...that brings up an interesting question/point...from a GAMERS perspective...what (if any) sorts of cheats should there be built into CB? I mean, from a modding pov, cheats are very useful!
20:26:55 [cyclotron7] Well, I'll just add the wonder "cheating orb"
20:27:08 [Velociryx] off the top of my head, I can think of unlimited (or tons of) money, no fog of war...others?
20:27:16 [Velociryx] LOL....that could work...
20:27:28 [HighLordJ] I was playing this game "The Wheel of Time" this morning and it is the hardest shooter game I have ever played but the books are awesome
20:28:02 [HighLordJ] I could get past the first level and just barley the tutoral
20:28:23 [FeistyHaremChic] FP!~!!
20:28:28 [Velociryx] heh...that sounds like me with MOST shooters....I guess I have a pretty limited scope of the type of game I enjoy
20:28:30 [Velociryx] Stoo!
20:28:33 [Velociryx] Howdy bud!
20:28:33 [HighLordJ] what is "CB" you guys making a game
20:28:53 [Velociryx] Yep...CB = Candle'Bre....a fantasy-based civ style game
20:29:26 [cyclotron7] Hey, FP...
20:29:34 [HighLordJ] hmm... this gonna be a download or do you got some kind of deal with a company
20:29:49 [FrustratedPoet] hello all
20:30:02 [FeistyHaremChic] late for the party again FP! lol
20:30:10 [Velociryx] downloadable....we'll also be able to burn a copy onto cd and mail it to whomever wants it that way
20:30:17 [Blake] I like some FPS games, C&C Renegade is cool.
20:30:38 [FrustratedPoet] yeah yeah ...
20:30:48 [FrustratedPoet] did I miss much?
20:31:17 [FeistyHaremChic] mmm..about 3 hrs worth
20:31:19 [HighLordJ] is CB fantsay going to be orginal, general fantasy, or a specfic fanstay world
20:31:32 [Velociryx] It's been coming in fits and starts....'bout usual for us...lol...some cool ideas tho! Had a killer idea for merc implementation tabled earlier
20:31:40 [Velociryx] all original, HLJ...
20:32:27 [HighLordJ] cool a story plot or just a civ with orginal charchters
20:32:37 [cyclotron7] OK, update:
20:32:54 [cyclotron7] The wonder thread is complete... the list above, plus the old ones, plus a few more
20:32:55 [FrustratedPoet] oh well ... some of us have had parties to go to y'know?
20:33:02 [cyclotron7] Check it out in the CB forum
20:33:06 [Velociryx] bit of both....in the CB forums on 'poly, there is a story that sets the stage for the game called "Flight and Founding"
20:33:13 [FeistyHaremChic] tsk! and I wasn't invited!
20:33:16 [cyclotron7] And add ideas if you have them... my brain is drained!
20:33:54 [Velociryx] Dang Stoo...I'm jealous! LOL...and thanks for the update Cyclo! After the chat, and before I get back to the Societal Model, I'll check it out! I could use some distraction from that particular bear anyway!
20:34:20 [FrustratedPoet] actually you were FHC ... but I was afraid that you might frighten my friends a little bit
20:34:36 [Velociryx] Uncle Red! Howzit going?!
20:34:37 [FeistyHaremChic]
20:34:50 [FeistyHaremChic] <--harmless! lol
20:35:02 [FrustratedPoet] :lol:
20:35:04 [RedFred] 6t5y67ui7y6t5
20:35:05 [FeistyHaremChic] ask Vel...ehhh...never mind...lol
20:35:52 [FrustratedPoet] what have you been chatting about tonight?
20:36:09 [FrustratedPoet] RedFred: ??????
20:36:10 [RedFred] Whoops! Things are fine Vel! Yourself?
20:36:14 [cyclotron7] Cheezus, were we just joined by a 1337-speaker?
20:37:01 [Kassiopeia] cyclotron: nope
20:37:04 [RedFred] First time chatting here. Working out the bugs.
20:37:14 [FeistyHaremChic] Vel-mail
20:37:14 [FrustratedPoet] I don't think that was 1337 ... just gibberish
20:37:29 [Velociryx] the game in general.....had some questions on timeframes I didn't have solid answers for, but for the most part, just a "what is CB" kinna chat....I think we got a few more folks interested!
20:37:35 [FrustratedPoet] Welcome Fred!
20:37:36 [cyclotron7] Ok, jsut checking
20:38:09 [Velociryx] had some technical difficulties, eh Red? That's okay, my translator was working...I sp33k 1337...lol
20:38:34 [cyclotron7] Et tu, Vel?
20:38:50 [FrustratedPoet] Vel: well ... yeah ... the timeframe issue is a bit of a confusing issue for us. It's cool to know that things are more or less on pace for our alpha demo, but I'll feel much better once it is installed on my PC
20:39:00 [Velociryx] lol...had to learn it to make heads or tails of what the young whippersnappers are saying...lol
20:39:48 [Velociryx] total agreement there, Stoo! The tough part is that, until we get v0.1 out and see how our estimates are, accuracy wise, I'm leery of putting an "official estimate" out there....
20:39:53 [FeistyHaremChic] hanim
20:39:59 [RedFred] Alpha demo? For CB? What timeframe?
20:40:07 [Velociryx] we just don't know enough yet to know if we're close, a million miles off the mark, or somewhere in between....
20:40:08 [FrustratedPoet] c4n7 u 5p33k 1337 cyclo? ... ... sorry, that's all I'm gonna do ... promise
20:40:21 [Velociryx] so far, my guess is that we're doing pretty good with our estimates, but...we shall see...
20:40:23 [HighLordJ] can anyone tell me if CB will be a download or do I have to go to stores or what?
20:40:37 [cyclotron7] SHINEH!
20:41:01 [Velociryx] LOL...yep red...that's us... v0.1 is in process now, and on track....specific timeframe still shrouded in mystery....
20:41:13 [FrustratedPoet] You can download it ... we can't tell you when yet I'm afraid, but we'll be shouting it from the rooftops when it happens ... it's free too.
20:41:35 [HighLordJ] alright cool
20:41:50 [Velociryx] HLJ: when it's out, we're gonna make it available for download and also have it set up where we can burn a copy to cd and mail it to those who'd rather get it that way (at least, that's the eventual plan!)
20:42:20 [cyclotron7] Or, we'll just burn it.
20:42:23 [cyclotron7]
20:42:34 [Velociryx] and welcome back, Tiger....saw you slip back in while I was typing!
20:42:41 [FrustratedPoet] people will have to pay for postage if they want it burned on a CD though, right Vel?
20:42:56 [RedFred] Provided "shrouded in mystery" works out to within 3 years... Cool!
20:43:04 [FrustratedPoet] or .. not?
20:43:15 [Velociryx] right....actually, there's a coolio company called FightCloud that already has everything set up....been thinking of maybe working with them on it....
20:43:20 [HighLordJ] oh I can download it I was just wondering if i was going to be able to see it in the store and brag about knowing who made it
20:43:43 [HighLordJ]
20:43:50 [FrustratedPoet] one day HLJ ... one day .. LOL
20:43:53 [Velociryx] LOL....I can promise you the "shroud" doesn't extend quite that far out....but...to give something in the way of an answer....
20:44:54 [Velociryx] I feel pretty confident in saying that before Santa Claus comes to visit us, there will have been one, if not a couple of public releases made.....can't get more specific than that, but that's what I'm thinking....
20:45:25 [HighLordJ] if it is good you could probaly contact a company pleantly of those corporte jerks like firaxis plague the boards
20:45:45 [FrustratedPoet] I'm not sure if Santa will be visiting anyone this year, mate ... he'll be too busy playing our game!
20:46:11 [Velociryx] LOL....you know....that's true...we could sabatoge Christmas....send complimentary copies to the Elves....
20:46:26 [cyclotron7] Hey, those corporate jerks gave you Civ3...
20:46:40 [HighLordJ] j/k
20:46:45 [Velociryx] was also thinking...when we get a solid release out...that Bruce fellow with CGW who did the mention of the SMAX guide in the mag he works for....
20:47:05 [Velociryx] they produce a cd with each issue of the magazine, as I recall...and the cd has demos of games....
20:47:07 [Velociryx] hmm....
20:47:08 [Velociryx]
20:47:34 [Velociryx] might not be a bad idea to renew my acquaintence with him...
20:47:46 [FrustratedPoet] lol @ Vel ... it had better be as good as we think it'll be then.
20:47:57 [RedFred] Good stuff. Sounds like Chirstmas might come early this year.
20:48:04 [HighLordJ] you should charge people to download it
20:48:14 [cyclotron7] Well, I must depart for now... have fun, support CB, and visit the wonder thread. Bye!
20:48:19 [RedFred] Take care. I have to run.
20:48:37 [Velociryx] Well, when it's ready, we'll know one way or the other, having subjected the game to continual stress testing from the gaming community....
20:49:02 [Velociryx] I have every confidence that, when we release the first public version, if there are any weak spots or imbalances we miss....they'll find them quickly...
20:49:13 [FeistyHaremChic] Cya Cyclo!
20:49:17 [HighLordJ] you should post a demo to download makr peoples mouth water and then charge five bucks a download
20:49:20 [FrustratedPoet] see you soon cyclo!
20:49:35 [Velociryx] then, when we get to the point where I'd consider contacting a mag like that, we'll have a quite solid program to show off....
20:49:42 [FrustratedPoet] oh darn it .. he already left ... oh well :rolleyes:
20:49:51 [Velociryx] HLJ....good plan sir, but....the first one's on us...entirely....free....
20:50:04 [Blake] btw, (possibly tought question) any idea of what minimum specs your aiming at?
20:50:43 [HighLordJ] huh even better then charge for the sequel
20:51:09 [HighLordJ] of course 3/4 of the profits go to me for giving you the idea don't want to stress the issue
20:51:11 [Velociryx] pretty tough question, but I'd like to say that it'll run on a pii-100 or better....dunno for certain, but especially wrt to the first releases, it won't be all that complex, I don't think
20:51:24 [Velociryx] lol hlj....
20:51:51 [Blake] p2-100 ? That's overly optimistic, I would think.
20:52:02 [HighLordJ] I have an idea when you give it out for download I will go find other civ sites to charge for it
20:52:28 [Velociryx] I think it's prolly overly optomistic for the final versions, true...but the early runs...I think it'll be small enough to run on something that old....
20:52:40 [HighLordJ] but you will only know of about 2 of those sites and you will get your 1/4 of the progit from that
20:52:50 [Velociryx] (has a system like that sitting in my spare room we can use to test it...lol)
20:52:59 [HighLordJ] profit
20:53:20 [HighLordJ] hehe maybe only of one site
20:53:38 [Velociryx] lol....nawww...the real master plan is to let prima do our strat guide...
20:53:55 [Blake] Even a small java program program will be slow and horrible. The horrible part is strictly IMHO, tho
20:54:33 [Velociryx] lol....not a huge java fan, eh?
20:55:35 [Blake] In the computer science course I'm doing they actively encourage the students to hate java by giving us horrible assignments to do using java and horrible slow java apps.
20:55:58 [Velociryx] ugh...yeah, that would turn the tide....
20:56:09 [HighLordJ] by the time there are stratgey guides the name of the name won't be CB and you will just be thinknig of a sequel on these boards and when you try to charge for it I will charge for plagrisim and eaisly win from all the money I made of your game
20:56:22 [Velociryx] dang...brb guys....I'm jonsing for some more tea....back in a flash
20:56:50 [HighLordJ] game*
20:57:14 [Blake] Then again I seem to recall a java game with some 3Dness running almost playably on a P166 (nowhere near playable for me, but playable for my brother). These things depend on how much you like a responsive interface, ofcourse...
20:57:58 [HighLordJ] what is a p166?
20:58:34 [Blake] Pentium 166
20:59:31 [FrustratedPoet] It won't need to run on anything that low-spec anyway, will it? I think everybody has much more than a P166 these days anyway ... at least, everybody who could access our website to download the game.
20:59:35 [Velociryx] bak....yeah....it's all relative...I'm used to junker systems....lol...so playable for me is prolly lots different than playable for most
21:00:14 [Blake] I have an XP1600 so I know it'll run almost tolerably for me
21:00:19 [Velociryx] was using a 166 at work till recently (upgraded to a 300 a couple months ago), had a 100 here at the house till recently
21:00:36 [Velociryx] upgraded to an 800 (I feel spoiled...lol) here at the house
21:01:31 [Blake] It seems most people have atleast 500's now.... atleast people semi serious about playing games
21:01:53 [Osweld] I felt spoiled when I bought my P3 500... now I just feel deprived
21:02:15 [Velociryx] ahhh....well, I see no reason at all why we can't make it run on a 500....of course, the faster the better, but that should be no sweat
21:02:32 [Velociryx] lol...know the feeling Osweld...I nursed my old 100 along for as long as I could
21:02:33 [Blake] I felt spoiled when I bought my XP1600, and I still feel spoilt
21:03:45 [Velociryx] down to six....and half are "CB-Irregulars" Anybody have any questions regarding the game or things in it?
21:04:12 [Blake] Games for Java which use OpenGL bindings to native libaries actually run at a respectable rate...
21:04:20 [Velociryx] figure since we've been drifting, we've hit a good many high spots in no particular order, but if there are questions floating around out there, might as well bring them in for a landing....
21:05:35 [Velociryx] Oh....my god....lol...I just realized something....
21:05:52 [FeistyHaremChic] I bet I know!
21:05:55 [Velociryx] do you know what I did a bit ago...when I made the "Santa Claus reference" wrt to the public releases?????
21:06:23 [Velociryx] I basically committed us to getting the game out "In time for the Christmas rush!" LOL
21:06:36 [FeistyHaremChic] nooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!
21:06:38 [Blake] I just realised something too... my essay on memory architecture isn't writing itself....
21:06:42 [Velociryx] Yikes! I have become infected by corporatism.....kill me!
21:06:44 [FrustratedPoet] LOL
21:07:08 [Velociryx] LOL Blake....you don't have one of those spiffy comps that's hard wired to your brain?
21:07:10 [FeistyHaremChic] FP...what shall we do with Vel?!?!
21:07:21 [FeistyHaremChic] slow, painful, suffering?
21:07:37 [Velociryx] Arrange for the Skanky Mafia to kidnap me and put me out of my misery at once! lol
21:07:54 [Blake] make him write my essay, that'd teach him.
21:08:12 [Velociryx] OUCH! That sounds dreadfully painful Blake...LOL
21:09:31 [Velociryx] Hmmm...okay....spin doctoring for damage control...let's see....
21:09:34 [FrustratedPoet] FHC: it should be quick and painless ... why let the old boy suffer? He's done good service, but now we should just give him his freedom. :cute:
21:09:59 [Blake] Dang, that eliminates the essay
21:10:01 [Velociryx] Ahhh! I got it! FHC...get to work on drafting a short memo....we'll call it..."Designer's Notes" or something....put that in with the free release....
21:10:12 [FeistyHaremChic] LOL..you are too easy FP!
21:10:22 [Velociryx] let's see...we could....tell everyone we've got a fully operational editor? Yeah...mark that down
21:10:26 [FeistyHaremChic] LOL!!! u got it
21:10:29 [Velociryx] what else?
21:12:10 [FeistyHaremChic] I say we all go join my neighbors party...I can hear the music from here! lol
21:12:27 [Velociryx] that's a big h#ll yes! Let's go!
21:12:56 [MBD] sorry, it's dinner time here. thanks and goodnight.
21:13:05 [FrustratedPoet] I'm already there ... the party rocks!!!!
21:13:10 [Velociryx] 'k....nite MBD, and thanks for joining us!
21:13:11 [FeistyHaremChic] grab yer grass skirtage...its a hula thang
21:13:32 [Velociryx] oh....now that could be interesting...and...frightening....lol
21:14:18 [FeistyHaremChic] cya MBD
21:14:27 [FrustratedPoet] hi Apoc
21:14:50 [FeistyHaremChic] u got cute knees Vel..show em off! LOL
21:15:28 [Apocalypse] Hey
21:15:46 [Velociryx] lol....too scary....hehe....and wb, Apoc!
21:16:21 [FeistyHaremChic] Did u get all the good notes from this chat Vel?
21:16:46 [Apocalypse] I just had to give all my attention to a problem I've been working to fix.
21:17:05 [FrustratedPoet] the log needs to be posted on the CB forum ... edited perhaps ...
21:17:34 [FeistyHaremChic] yea, we can edit out the "porn fairy" parts..LOL
21:17:59 [Velociryx] I got some great notes from it! A pretty good chat! And yes...will need a spot of editing, but that shouldn't be tooooo bad....lol
21:18:23 [FrustratedPoet] I'm sorry I missed those bits ... LOL ... the "porn fairy" wouldn't be you by any chance FHC?
21:18:46 [FeistyHaremChic] ::giggle:: umm..not this time FP!
21:18:58 [Velociryx] lol!!
21:19:24 [FeistyHaremChic] hey..I need my halo smilies! lol
21:19:39 [Velociryx] indeed....
21:19:55 [Velociryx] Well guys...can anyone think of anything specific we want or need to discuss?
21:20:47 [Velociryx] I'm sorta half dreading getting back to work on the Societal Model, but like Blake's paper, it won't write itself, I fear....
21:21:01 [FrustratedPoet] * FrustratedPoet shrugs and rubs his sleepy eyes.
21:21:09 [FeistyHaremChic] i know..lets talk about the mating rituals of the spotted moth?
21:21:14 [Velociryx] and I must wrestle that foul beast from my head and get it into something resembling a coherent format so people can tell me what I missed....lol
21:21:37 [FeistyHaremChic] shall we tuck u in FP?
21:22:05 [FrustratedPoet] please ...
21:22:05 [Velociryx] lol FHC.....hmmm...an interesting topic of conversation, I must say....
21:22:37 [Velociryx] er....the moths that is....not....well, I'll hush now...lol
21:22:54 [FeistyHaremChic] not quite porn fairy material...but....lol
21:23:02 [Velociryx] lol
21:23:51 [Velociryx] *sighs* okay then....I'm saving the log to my desktop and will edit it in between working on bits for the Societal Model...Hopefully will have something up soonish in that regard!
21:24:18 [FeistyHaremChic] well..looks like I need to tuck FP in, and back to domestic goddess stuffage!
21:24:48 [FeistyHaremChic] Vel..I'll call ya the usual time and we can discuss..the...ehh..moths...lol
21:24:58 [Velociryx] lol...'k....and again, thanks to everybody for coming out and joining us! Had a fantastic time with it!
21:25:11 [Velociryx] Sounds good FHC...talk to you a bit later on then....
21:25:26 [FrustratedPoet] see you guys and gal soon!
21:25:27 [Velociryx] for now...g'nite all...it's back to work with me!
21:26:47 [FeistyHaremChic] see ya FP ..be good
22:09:00 [alva848] brb
22:39:50 [alva848] bye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!