26-10-2003 03:22									#31
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If the kid can accurately describe White and his vehicle, I'd be inclined to believe him. I am assuming that there was no prior relationship between the two, since the story implies that White just drove up to the kid and rolled down his window.

	26-10-2003 03:35									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin MtG: It doesn't matter one bit if she flirted with Kobe and played kissy with him.

Yes it does.

IF she did not consent to sex, it is rape, (a la Tyson), however, it is much more of a "her word against his" situation than if she states that she never consented to sexual contact or suggestions of any nature.

Conviction requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and it doesn't take much to argue that she went for it, then after the fact got pissed off because he was nasty, or he wasn't any good, or she consented but he was too rough, or she consented, but her boyfriend/parents/whoever would know and there'd be consequences blah blah blah. Will a jury buy it enough to believe there's reasonable doubt as to guilt? That's all the defense is looking for.

I'm not talking fact, I'm not talking legal definition, I'm talking "convince all 12 members of a jury of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt." The nationwide conviction rate as of a couple of years ago in rape trials is less than 60%. IIRC, it was the lowest of any major felony. Does that mean a lot of incompetent DA's or innocent defendants? Some, yes, but not 40-odd percent. It means a lot of cases where the jury couldn't agree on guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

	26-10-2003 04:40									#33
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Rape is very difficult to prove, in large part because of the perception that she's just doing this to get even.


BTW, pediphilia isn't homosexuality. Soliciting a minor is attempting to engage in child molestation.

	26-10-2003 04:51									#34
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara BTW, pediphilia isn't homosexuality. Soliciting a minor is attempting to engage in child molestation.

If Bro was really wanting to do a fellatio on the boy, it was a sexual act on a fellow (young) male. When the boy is 14, you cannot dismiss the possibility of homosexual rather than pedophile attraction. It is also very possible that both are blended.

	26-10-2003 05:02									#35
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Plus, don't you think it would still be inconsistant with what he preaches. "Yeah, gay people suck but pedophilia, that's all right in my book."

	26-10-2003 05:21									#36
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Sex with a teenager isn't quite the same as sex with a pre-teen or younger child.

	26-10-2003 06:16									#37
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Plus, don't you think it would still be inconsistant with what he preaches. "Yeah, gay people suck but pedophilia, that's all right in my book."

Well, since his book is the Bible? Is there any mention of underage sex being Bad in the Bible? I wasn't under this impression (yet I haven't read the Bible in its entirety)

	26-10-2003 06:17									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor If Bro was really wanting to do a fellatio on the boy, it was a sexual act on a fellow (young) male. When the boy is 14, you cannot dismiss the possibility of homosexual rather than pedophile attraction. It is also very possible that both are blended.

Let me try this AGAIN, for the 10,000th time -- when a heterosexual engages in sex with a minor, it is pedophilia. When a homosexual engages in sex with a minor, it is also pedophilia.

Pedophilia is not related to sexual orientation.

	26-10-2003 06:18									#39
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So? It doesn't mean that he isn't both.

	26-10-2003 06:19									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Well, since his book is the Bible? Is there any mention of underage sex being Bad in the Bible? I wasn't under this impression (yet I haven't read the Bible in its entirety)

That's really twisted thinking

	26-10-2003 06:24									#41
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker So? It doesn't mean that he isn't both.

Of course -- there are gay pedophiles and straight pedophiles.

But many people seem to want to focus only on instances of homosexual involvement in pedophilia.

	26-10-2003 06:28									#42
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Pedophilia is not related to sexual orientation.

It is. There is a sexual attraction toward minors. In my vocabulary, it's called "pedophilia". This attraction to minor is often due to one's psyche, when the person itself had sex in his youth, or had the development of his libido blocked at some point. Now, there are people attracted to underage people who act on said attraction (and indulge in underage sex), and there are people who do not, and keep their attraction to themselves.

It is also worth it to know that many child molesters aren't particularily aroused by kids, but rape kids for the feeling of control, or for the certainty they'll empty their balls without resistance.

http://www.mhamic.org
The site is maybe biased, but I think some information is to be taken seriously there.

And this is NOT a dressed up anti-gay troll. There is a wide range of sexual attractions, some of them are considered pervers by the society, some other are accepted. Heterosexuality is one of them. Homosexuality is one of them. Heck, even zoophilia is one of them. And this is one of the reasons why I think the "I didn't choose my attraction" argument in the homosexuality debate is the worst possible argument.

	26-10-2003 06:30									#43
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker That's really twisted thinking

Bible thumpers ARE twisted

	26-10-2003 06:30									#44
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quote: Pentecostals are part of the "charasmatic" wing of Protestantism. Long on singing, dancing, and other outward displays of vigorous devotion, short on theology and contemplation (at least in my experience).

Pentecostals have pastors, not Priests (Catholic) or Reverends (Anglican/United/Episcopalian.)

It really depends on the church. My Pastor comes from a Pentecostal background, but he does a good job of combining both aspects, with the singing and the preaching.

Spiffor:

The real question you are looking for is the age of marriage, considering that the Bible teaches that you should wait for marriage. Not sure if an exact age is given.

	26-10-2003 06:33									#45
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Episcopals have priests, and so do Lutherans.

	26-10-2003 06:42									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Spiffor: The real question you are looking for is the age of marriage, considering that the Bible teaches that you should wait for marriage. Not sure if an exact age is given.

Well, the old testament is chock-full of unmarried sex, and I guess the anti-gay deacons thump the old testament most.

Despite my limited knowledge, I know that it was "good" for lot to give his daughters to the Sodomites, or that it was "good" for Onan to screw his brother's widow (so good that Onan was actually slain by God himself when he refused to inseminate her)

It seems married sex was not the only righteous way in the old times

	26-10-2003 06:58									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor It is. There is a sexual attraction toward minors. In my vocabulary, it's called "pedophilia". This attraction to minor is often due to one's psyche, when the person itself had sex in his youth, or had the development of his libido blocked at some point. Now, there are people attracted to underage people who act on said attraction (and indulge in underage sex), and there are people who do not, and keep their attraction to themselves. It is also worth it to know that many child molesters aren't particularily aroused by kids, but rape kids for the feeling of control, or for the certainty they'll empty their balls without resistance. http://www.mhamic.org The site is maybe biased, but I think some information is to be taken seriously there. And this is NOT a dressed up anti-gay troll. There is a wide range of sexual attractions, some of them are considered pervers by the society, some other are accepted. Heterosexuality is one of them. Homosexuality is one of them. Heck, even zoophilia is one of them. And this is one of the reasons why I think the "I didn't choose my attraction" argument in the homosexuality debate is the worst possible argument.

If pedophilia happens regardless of sexual orientation due to sexual attraction, what the fvck does sexual orientation have anything to do with it?

	26-10-2003 07:08									#48
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Let me try this AGAIN, for the 10,000th time -- when a heterosexual engages in sex with a minor, it is pedophilia. When a homosexual engages in sex with a minor, it is also pedophilia. Pedophilia is not related to sexual orientation.

Ok, try it for the 10,001st time. The kid is 14 - that's in all but a few cases post-pubescent, and near the age of consent in a lot of places. If he was a 10 year old, we'd say pedophilia for sure. If he was a 17 year old, we'd say, no, it ain't pedophilia. This is a case in-between, so without more info, we really don't know the sexual basis, assuming the allegation is true.

	26-10-2003 07:09									#49
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sexual orientation has nothing to do with being a pedophile. Liking little boys, however, has alot to do with sexual orientation. Kids have gender too, you know.

	26-10-2003 07:12									#50
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun If pedophilia happens regardless of sexual orientation due to sexual attraction, what the fvck does sexual orientation have anything to do with it?

Oh, OK, it's a vocabulary issue. For you sexual orientation is an either or (being attracted either to males or to females). I took "sexual orientation" in a broader meaning, i.e all kind of attractions a human can have, and not-only gender based.

	26-10-2003 07:32									#51
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quote: Yes, I think this guy is a sleeze but why the hell do you all assume he did it?

Now that's out of the way, I'll assume you meant he's a sleaze for conduct we know he has already engaged in.

Good points Mad Monk, he's innocent until proven guilty, but we can have opinions before a trial nevertheless.

	26-10-2003 08:07									#52
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat The kid is 14 - that's in all but a few cases post-pubescent,

Hardly. Most males are going through puberty at 14; almost none are post-pubescent, and significantly more that "a few" haven't really hit puberty yet at that age.

	26-10-2003 08:20									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Well, since his book is the Bible? Is there any mention of underage sex being Bad in the Bible? I wasn't under this impression (yet I haven't read the Bible in its entirety)

It says that for a man to lie with another man as a woman is an abomination.

Golly! It doesn't say anything about kids, and it should be noted that it doesn't say anything about sitting or standing. How could we have missed that? It looks like Mr. White is only guilty of being way ahead of us.

	26-10-2003 11:43									#54
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This is proof that every homophobe is really a homosexual.

	26-10-2003 13:48									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Oh, OK, it's a vocabulary issue. For you sexual orientation is an either or (being attracted either to males or to females). I took "sexual orientation" in a broader meaning, i.e all kind of attractions a human can have, and not-only gender based.

So we were having a communication problem here on Apolyton.

Wouldn't that be the first case of miscommunication on Apolyton?


NOT

	26-10-2003 13:49									#56
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Ok, try it for the 10,001st time. The kid is 14 - that's in all but a few cases post-pubescent, and near the age of consent in a lot of places. If he was a 10 year old, we'd say pedophilia for sure. If he was a 17 year old, we'd say, no, it ain't pedophilia. This is a case in-between, so without more info, we really don't know the sexual basis, assuming the allegation is true.

Ok -- the 10,001st time sounds good to me.

	26-10-2003 15:00									#57
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Let me try this AGAIN, for the 10,000th time -- when a heterosexual engages in sex with a minor, it is pedophilia. When a homosexual engages in sex with a minor, it is also pedophilia. Pedophilia is not related to sexual orientation.

No, heterosexual acts between an adult and a teenage minor of the opposite sex is rape (statutory if consentual).

Sodomy between an adult and a teenage minor is usually sexual assault (aggravated if force is involved).

Such cases may be charged as contributing to the delinquency of a minor as well. But pedophilia? That would be rare.

	26-10-2003 23:04									#58
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I don't believe that entirely.

Why not engage in sex with an underage girl then? He is a homosexual paedophilia person then. but still homosexual.

	27-10-2003 07:40									#59
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Homo- yes, pedo- not necessarily. Gotta see how this pans out. They'll track down his travels and find out who else he propositioned over the years.

Half of all the porn-spam is boasting teen this, youngest that. The appeal of youth isn't pedophilia.