29-10-2003 07:58									#31
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell I never got the idea behind charging for a distro anyways.

To stay in business?

SP

	29-10-2003 08:31									#32
	Suffering from ads?

i wouldn't touch lindows at all, if you really want to use linux. lindows is a lobotomized version which tries to hide as much of the useful stuff as possible in exchange for ease of use.

then again, if that's what you're looking for...

	29-10-2003 09:00									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Asher Why would he buy an OS with an extremely tiny selection of software, trying to emulate Windows...when he can buy Windows itself for the same price?

Tiny selection of software? Where have you been?

	29-10-2003 09:01									#34
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Tiny selection of software? Where have you been?

I'm over here in the real world.

Compare software availability between Linux and Windows -- "tiny" is an understatement for Linux.

	29-10-2003 09:06									#35
	Re: On my next system, I think I'll run some sort of Linux. Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Azazel I'll probably buy a system in a number of months. THEN, I'LL INSTALL LINUX... What then? what shall I do? WHAT IS IT?

Depends on what you want to do. Most of the major distros now has the installation part down pat. I did a few installations of Redhat 9 recently and the process is definitely better than Windows.

Other than that, it's up to you. DOSEMU is a great DOS emulator, so you can play your DOS games. Wine is an abstract Windows API layer (not an emulator). OpenOffice 1.1 is excellent. You've got at least licq and giam for instant messaging.

BTW, Linux now also has very good support of various peripherials.

	29-10-2003 09:09									#36
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Asher I'm over here in the real world.

Your world is anything but the real world Glonkie.

quote: Originally posted by Asher Compare software availability between Linux and Windows -- "tiny" is an understatement for Linux.

Really?

	29-10-2003 09:09									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

loki games is dead. ut2k3 had a linux installer, but it was broken.

======

hey, if you really wanted a windows-like interface atop linux, go use some distribution that isn't red hat or mandrake or lindows. actually, redhat might work.

then, for your windowmanager, go download and setup xpde. just google it and look at the screenshots.

btw: if you're not on broadband, forget about linux. seriously. you'll either have to get a true hardware modem or pray that it's a winmodem with a lucent chipset... and since most modems sold are actually winmodems (software does half of the modem's job)...

and even then, if you do connect, trying to download massive packages is killer.

	29-10-2003 09:10									#38
	Re: Re: On my next system, I think I'll run some sort of Linux. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Depends on what you want to do. Most of the major distros now has the installation part down pat. I did a few installations of Redhat 9 recently and the process is definitely better than Windows.

Better than Windows?

I tried to install RedHat 9, too.

Unidentified soundcard (had to manually force it to use EMU10K1 drivers, they didn't even list EMU10K2)

I suppose it's better than Windows if you didn't have any hardware for it to detect and configure.

	29-10-2003 09:12									#39
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Your world is anything but the real world Glonkie.

Of course, I forgot Linux has a huge software base.

I mean, look at all of the games out for it...

I don't care if Linux has cheap alternatives. OpenOffice can't compete with Office, period. The GiMP can't compete with Photoshop, period. KDE/Gnome can't compete with Windows XP's UI, period. gftp can't compete with CuteFTP, period. "ssh" can't compete with Putty, period.

I can go on and on.

Linux has "alternatives" to many of the popular Windows programs but they all feel like high school programming projects.

quote: Really?

Yes.

	29-10-2003 09:22									#40
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The key question of course,


Can you play Civ III on Linux?

	29-10-2003 09:25									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

No, but you can play the cheap alternative "FreeCiv".

It's a perfect example of what software on Linux is like.

	29-10-2003 09:28									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Then I'll stick to windoze. (with all due respect to the people who put a lot of time and effort into Freeciv)

	29-10-2003 10:52									#43
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Asher gftp can't compete with CuteFTP, period.

Somebody still uses gftp ?

quote: He'll break when he gets fed up with the shoddy hardware support. Or the vastly limited selection of software, and the software that is available is usually of quite poor quality. Or perhaps he'll just get upset with having incompatible libraries and depedency errors.

Let's see what we can do about these...

Azazel: There are some things you need to consider even before installing Linux. First, since you're going to buy a new system, you can choose hardware that is known to be Linux-compatible. Use http://hardware.redhat.com/hcl/ or check your possibilities with a geek forum.

Also, it really bodes well for the future if you find some local guru who can install any distro for you. Choose something easily maintainable - Debian is likely to be the best choice, although if you and the guru are daring, Gentoo might work better on a modern desktop (*). Selecting a distro with a good package management system (such as the mentioned Debian and Gentoo) should defeat most of those dependency problems. Not to mention that although they can't do anything about the limited selection of software, both Debian and Gentoo at least give you easy access to installing new software with a single command.

(*) Just one hint if you intend to use Gentoo: CFLAGS="-march= -O2 -pipe" is enough and doesn't cause any trouble.

	29-10-2003 11:11									#44
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

If you go for Debian, wait until they get it running the Red Hat installer.

SP

	29-10-2003 11:13									#45
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Both of my favorite Linux users posting in a row, the Gods are shining on me today!

	29-10-2003 11:15									#46
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I prefer the term, "universally challenged."

SP

	29-10-2003 12:11									#47
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Asher I don't care if Linux has cheap alternatives. OpenOffice can't compete with Office, period. The GiMP can't compete with Photoshop, period. KDE/Gnome can't compete with Windows XP's UI, period. gftp can't compete with CuteFTP, period. "ssh" can't compete with Putty, period. I can go on and on.

Please, do go on

I did not expect any objective comparision from you. I gleaned my experiences from real life situations, by letting a bunch of Windows users trying both out. I mean real users, not some MS apologist.

quote: Originally posted by Asher Linux has "alternatives" to many of the popular Windows programs but they all feel like high school programming projects.

Tell me how secure Outlook and IIS is.

	29-10-2003 12:13									#48
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Please, do go on I did not expect any objective comparision from you. I gleaned my experiences from real life situations, by letting a bunch of Windows users trying both out. I mean real users, not some MS apologist.

Yes, yes, I am not a real user.

I do not use these, I don't have ample experience with both platforms, I'm simply talking out of my ass.

This, of course, comes from the man who thought the purpose of DirectX was to individually write code to specific hardware.

quote: Tell me how secure Outlook and IIS is.

Outlook? Outlook 2003, what I use, is very secure. Script/HTML parsing is disabled by default, etc.

As for IIS, I wouldn't know -- I use Apache, MySQL, and PHP (what an MS Apologist -- ohhhhhhh!!!!!!)

	29-10-2003 12:15									#49
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ari Rahikkala Somebody still uses gftp ?

Doesn't bother me.

Have command line, will travel.

	29-10-2003 12:18									#50
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Asher I do not use these, I don't have ample experience with both platforms, I'm simply talking out of my ass.

I am glad you admit to that.

quote: Originally posted by Asher This, of course, comes from the man who thought the purpose of DirectX was to individually write code to specific hardware.

Ah, resorting to the usual dirty underhanded tricks, aren't we?

quote: Originally posted by Asher Outlook? Outlook 2003, what I use, is very secure. Script/HTML parsing is disabled by default, etc.

Anything that uses IE for viewing cannot be secure.

quote: Originally posted by Asher As for IIS, I wouldn't know -- I use Apache, MySQL, and PHP (what an MS Apologist -- ohhhhhhh!!!!!!)

Surely you do not use cheap HS programming projects?

	29-10-2003 12:21									#51
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Ah, resorting to the usual dirty underhanded tricks, aren't we?

Dirty underhanded tricks? It shows how fundamentally ignorant you are about Windows and Windows applications -- saying that about DirectX is like saying Linux is all about proprietary software!

quote: Anything that uses IE for viewing cannot be secure.

Perhaps you should don your reading glasses mate -- I believe I said that HTML parsing is disabled. Ergo IE is not used for rendering. Comprende?

quote: Surely you do not use cheap HS programming projects?

No, I do not.
Incase you haven't noticed, Apache, MySQL, and PHP are all cross-platform.

There is some quality software out on Linux -- unfortunately it is also available on Windows.

FYI, I'm using Firebird 0.7 these days too.

I'm no MS apologist, as a Linux zealot you eagerly dismiss someone who counters your bullshit as an MS apologist. Perhaps I'm just someone who uses what I like? Did that ever cross your mind?

	29-10-2003 15:21									#52
	Re: On my next system, I think I'll run some sort of Linux. Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Azazel all my knowledge in the area is hype

Hey you are about the same as the average Linux user then!

	29-10-2003 17:01									#53
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Unidentified video card, used VGA

if you have an nvidia or ati chipset, you can use those drivers. intel graphics chipset? you can use those too.

quote: Unidentified mouse, use standard 2-button mouse

it's a mouse.

quote: Error writing to disc (doesn't support VIA's RAID controller)

prolly have to search for this too.

quote: Unidentified soundcard (had to manually force it to use EMU10K1 drivers, they didn't even list EMU10K2)

search for ALSA.

======

quote: Hey you are about the same as the average Linux user then!

*nix, including linux, is still better for programming than windows is, although visual studio .net 2003 is quite nice.

======

http://www.xpde.com/

	29-10-2003 18:22									#54
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Azazel: There are some things you need to consider even before installing Linux. First, since you're going to buy a new system, you can choose hardware that is known to be Linux-compatible. Use http://hardware.redhat.com/hcl/ or check your possibilities with a geek forum. Also, it really bodes well for the future if you find some local guru who can install any distro for you. Choose something easily maintainable - Debian is likely to be the best choice, although if you and the guru are daring, Gentoo might work better on a modern desktop (*). Selecting a distro with a good package management system (such as the mentioned Debian and Gentoo) should defeat most of those dependency problems. Not to mention that although they can't do anything about the limited selection of software, both Debian and Gentoo at least give you easy access to installing new software with a single command. (*) Just one hint if you intend to use Gentoo: CFLAGS="-march= -O2 -pipe" is enough and doesn't cause any trouble.

After reading this, I think I should consider paying up, and running WinXP Pro.

	29-10-2003 18:55									#55
	Support Apolyton

xp pro is better if you don't want to deal with the hassle of learning a whole new os.

compared to linux, windows "just works", to borrow a phrase from apple.

make sure you get pro. never ever ever get home. and if you do get home, make sure you upgrade.

actually, now that i think about it, just buy the upgrade version, install a copy of win98 or 2k and then upgrade from that on your new com.

	29-10-2003 19:00									#56
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Azazel After reading this, I think I should consider paying up, and running WinXP Pro.

You definitely should. Linux can be very powerful in the hand of somebody who knows what he does, but it isn't exactly friendly to a newbie. And is definitely a bad choice if it's sole purpose is to be a user friendly desktop system.

	29-10-2003 23:06									#57
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

! I forgot about the upgrade option!

	29-10-2003 23:51									#58
	Support Apolyton

IMO:

Pro Windows:
* Familiarity (for most users)
* Much larger software base
* Consistency
* Integration
* Good hardware support

Pro Linux:
* Customizability
* Flexibility
* Can be downloaded for free, freedom of choice etc.
* Vastly less viruses, worms, trojans, adware, spyware, whatever than windows
* Supports a lot of computer architectures

I'm a linux-user and I find it great to use, but my guess is your better of with Windows.

I would put "better stability and security" under linux, but lets not get into that flamefest

	30-10-2003 00:07									#59
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Thanks, folks! You've saved me from the abyss.

	30-10-2003 10:29									#60
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed compared to linux, windows "just works", to borrow a phrase from apple.

That needs to be qunatified heavily.