29-10-2003 04:47									#31
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I cannot agree with you MtG. And show some proof. That is right I am challanging you on that. Show some proof. If it was too little force then why the hell did Baghdad fall so quickly? And there is nothing little about the force they have in there.

	29-10-2003 04:50									#32
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I hope you realise the long haul means 25, maybe 50 years.

	29-10-2003 04:52									#33
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Not necessarily.

Oh, and Fez, he meant too little force for the occupation, not to defeat the Iraqis.

	29-10-2003 04:53									#34
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quote: Whatya mean "we," College Boy?

I mean the US .

I don't give two shits about what you do.

	29-10-2003 04:55									#35
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You're president of your local chapter of Future Chickenhawks of America, I take it?

	29-10-2003 04:57									#36
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No, I'm approaching it from an intelligent perspective, realizing that Eurocoms socialist scum won't help, unlike you .

	29-10-2003 05:05									#37
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I doubt it will take 25 years. We will try "Iraqi-isation" of the effort and hopefully have a semblance of an Iraqi government to dump this on by sometime next year. I would suggest that if there are any old Iraqi heavy weapons, tanks and planes left that they should be strategically left in southern iraq comfortably in the grasp of the Shiites. The Sunni people of Iraq, who are amking the lion's share of the trouble, should be made to undertstand that if they don't behave the people whom they oppressed for more than thirty years will be left with the means to get medieval on their buttocks.

	29-10-2003 05:07									#38
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quote: We will try "Iraqi-isation" of the effort and hopefully have a semblance of an Iraqi government to dump this on by sometime next year

I hope not. The best situation for Iraq (maybe not for other things) is if we stay there and help out the new government... gently guiding it along.

	29-10-2003 05:16									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui [gently guiding it along.

Since when did you decide to be a stand up comic?

	29-10-2003 05:30									#41
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quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS Since when did you decide to be a stand up comic?

I assume he means with something like these:

	29-10-2003 05:33									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Get with the programme Imran, MtG knows what I mean...

	29-10-2003 05:37									#43
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My 11-EEE Corcorans have proved useful in the administration of "gentle guidance" on occasion. I don't see us there much later than early 2005, though. In the meantime, another hundred thousand "guidance counselors" would be useful. Take the ****ing Sunni triangle apart to the last brick, one town at a time, and clear out all the weapons caches, *******s, hiding places, etc.

	29-10-2003 05:42									#44
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That's sacrilege MtG!

You and I both know that there are more than enough troops already in Iraq to do the job, the US govt says so - hell I even got shouted out by some of the chickenhawks on this forum for even suggesting we should increase the "guidance counselor" quota a few months back...

That learned me!

	29-10-2003 05:48									#45
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The USA's mess, they gotta clear it up. They gotta stay in there and leave a viable state, otherwise this whole thing will just repeat over and over again. The question is one of political endurance, not to mention money. Like I said months ago, the strongest justification for the Iraq war, and the only one I cannot refute is the economic argument, namely, oil.

	30-10-2003 03:14									#46
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Not necessarily. Oh, and Fez, he meant too little force for the occupation, not to defeat the Iraqis.

Umm... I think it is enough.

Look... I think my own government (Spain) should have at least 10,000 troops in Iraq... we have only 2,500 currently station there. Majority is in Najaf, where we are in charge.

	30-10-2003 03:16									#47
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how badly does this affect us? both appearance-wise and material-wise?

	30-10-2003 03:28									#48
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Even Rummy now admits this is gonna be a "long, hard slog." Not in public though.

	30-10-2003 03:29									#49
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Big bad Wolfie is the chicken choker most responsible for the "we can whup 'em with one hand tied behind our backs then everyone will throw flowers in our path and be grateful and we'll have no problems" nonsense that led to us going in with too little force, and virtually no real plan for occupation.

Once again - as far as i can tell, he HAD a plan, it was vetoed. Wolfie aint responsible for the admin being split and the man at the top not being able to make everybody play the same music.

And I would like you to quote me where he said wed have no problems.

Part of what went wrong is that they expected WORSE problems - not looting, but starvation, and a refugee crisis. Thats why they had Gardner initially. When that didnt happen the locals expected things to get better REALLY fast, and theyve been disillusioned.

	30-10-2003 03:31									#50
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quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS Yep, showing a distinct lack of cojones there - but then if I were getting f***ed up the ass on a daily basis, I'd want it to stop too...

sorry to disappoint you, but the vast majority of americans realize the seriousness of what we're trying to do, and are resolved to win.

	30-10-2003 03:37									#51
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Even Rummy now admits this is gonna be a "long, hard slog." Not in public though.

He defined slog on TV... it is not in the context commie/liberals were putting it in.

This definition:

slog:

To strike with heavy blows. (dictionary.com)

	30-10-2003 03:38									#52
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat My 11-EEE Corcorans have proved useful in the administration of "gentle guidance" on occasion. I don't see us there much later than early 2005, though. In the meantime, another hundred thousand "guidance counselors" would be useful. Take the ****ing Sunni triangle apart to the last brick, one town at a time, and clear out all the weapons caches, *******s, hiding places, etc.

hey - didnt you read the TITLE of this thread? The guy killed, the deputy mayor of Iraq, WAS sunni arab. as are thousand of iraqi police, local council people etc. THOSE are the guys with Cojones, and they are the one putting their lives on the line every day to rebuild THEIR country.

Imran is RIGHT - they need our support - THEY being the people of IRaq striving for a new life, NOT the terrosists and - yes - dead enders among them who worship death and want to deny the others a new life.

Imran - salaam.

	30-10-2003 03:38									#53
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark sorry to disappoint you, but the vast majority of americans realize the seriousness of what we're trying to do, and are resolved to win.

Did you take this quote from 1965?

	30-10-2003 03:40									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Fez Umm... I think it is enough. Look... I think my own government (Spain) should have at least 10,000 troops in Iraq... we have only 2,500 currently station there. Majority is in Najaf, where we are in charge.

a couple of months ago the brass was saying that more troops wouldnt help - not enough intel leads to follow - according to todays WaPo some officer in baghdad says they now have leads out the wazoo, more than they can follow up on - so yes, more troops would help now.

	30-10-2003 03:42									#55
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I think the Indians might be the ones that will help the US out in this situation.. they can send up to 35,000 I heard.... and since the US got that UN resolution passed regarding troop deployments, India might be willing.

I really hope Spain sends more though.

	30-10-2003 03:43									#56
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Did you take this quote from 1965?

No, i composed it myself.

Still counting on this to be Viet Nam? Keep waiting.

heres a quote for you.

"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty." Winston Churchill

	30-10-2003 20:49									#57
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Are we sure this killing isn't related to maffia-like activities? The terrorists aren't the only killers around you know...