01-11-2003 20:40									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger It's not that hard to use after being properly installed and configured. It's the same point-n-click GUI.

And IMHO, this is the terrible weakness of Linux. It basically assumes that every user is either a geek, or is monitored by a geek. From a user perspective, it really sucks, because you can hardly fix any problem yourself even if you're semi computer-literate.

I mean, how hard can it be to perform an update of your favorite browser? On Linux, if you don't use RTPs, it is a completely uninstinctive procedure which pales in comparison to the double-click elegance.

	01-11-2003 20:51									#32
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Spiffor ( though I don't remember what RTP is )

	01-11-2003 20:59									#33
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Oops, I meant RPM (RTP is an acronym I learnt at about the same time )
Redhat Package Manager. It's basically an installer that performs all installation tasks itself. It was developed for RedHat at first, and as such is not compatible with all Linux distributions. As far as the layman I am can tell, it does exactly the same job as any installer you'll download for windows. Pretty simple, but unfortunately many programs don't do RPMs. And even for those who do, many require root access for being installed (and as such the ordinary user must call the computer expert, for he only is root)

	01-11-2003 22:25									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor And IMHO, this is the terrible weakness of Linux. It basically assumes that every user is either a geek, or is monitored by a geek. From a user perspective, it really sucks, because you can hardly fix any problem yourself even if you're semi computer-literate.

Depends on your definition of semi computer literate. My friend Dennis was able to download, compile, and install gaim 0.71 after messing with Linux for a week. Sure, he had several years of experience administering Windows, but that just goes on to show that Windows is not at all simpler than *nix. Take a look at the system processes running under XP. Do you know what they do?

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I mean, how hard can it be to perform an update of your favorite browser? On Linux, if you don't use RTPs, it is a completely uninstinctive procedure which pales in comparison to the double-click elegance.

Debian is much easier with apt-get. RPM is a bit of a pain with all the dependencies.

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Pretty simple, but unfortunately many programs don't do RPMs.

Most programs do distribute a RPM version. For a lot of them, they include instructions in the tarball to run rpmbuild on the source.

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor And even for those who do, many require root access for being installed (and as such the ordinary user must call the computer expert, for he only is root)

Ditto with any Windows NT-esque OS. You can't install many prorgrams unless you have administrator previlege.

	01-11-2003 22:32									#35
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quote: Originally posted by aneeshm I repeat , I said that we not respond to his trolls . I'm perfectly willing to debate any points of argument he may have . Implying that some people live in a dream world is a troll , IMO . And it is my intention to warn other , unsuspecting posters not to flame in response . I'm sorry if I got a little carried away . I'll edit out some parts . "We all love your weekly "so and so . . . . . " is also a semi-troll , too , if we look carefully .

is poor itty-bitty aneeshm sad about losing his forum?

	01-11-2003 22:35									#36
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UR - Windows is FAR more user-friendly than linux. At school, in the syslab (all linux computers) we have to use the terminal for half the things we want to do.

	01-11-2003 22:54									#37
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hi ,

intresting to see that some people have found the light

have a nice day

	01-11-2003 23:00									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Ditto with any Windows NT-esque OS. You can't install many prorgrams unless you have administrator previlege.

Which is my worst beef with NT-esque windows btw. I am the sole user of my computer and I sure don't want crappy "identities" to clutter up my comp when there is so blatantly no need for them

Believe me, Ur, I've indulged in Linux for a week on my computer with real goodwill. My intend was to see if a User Friendly distro of Linux (RedHat) could hopefully compete with Windows from an "average user" perspective. Well, I'm a bit more than "average" in this regard, because I have some computer knowledge although not being an all-out geek, and I was patient enough to devote time and endure the hardships for a week.

Even RedHat falls far behind Windows when it comes to personal computers. However, it is true it's as eas to use as windows. It's just much, much more of a pain to get it operational.

	01-11-2003 23:03									#39
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quote: Which is my worst beef with NT-esque windows btw. I am the sole user of my computer and I sure don't want crappy "identities" to clutter up my comp when there is so blatantly no need for them

Then give yourself admin priveleges

	01-11-2003 23:18									#40
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Then give yourself admin priveleges

I do. For the one month when XP home was installed on my computer, I still couldn't delete some non-system crap, and I couldn't even install my old Office 2000 . Admittedly, XP professional is infinitely better. But even if all the login crap is hiding now, there are still traces of it (such as the Startup menu and the ignominous "shared files" folder )

	01-11-2003 23:23									#41
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker is poor itty-bitty aneeshm sad about losing his forum?

Uh , yeah , right . I don't have a single post in the Mac forums . In fact , I've never worked with Macs in my life . So I think this is just a little bit unjustified . It's just that I dislike people who gloat over what they have done , like in Glonkie's case , and the way they do it. (I like that name , sounds much less dignified than Asher)

	01-11-2003 23:23									#42
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Even people who gloat over doing the RIGHT THING?!

	01-11-2003 23:24									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I do. For the one month when XP home was installed on my computer, I still couldn't delete some non-system crap, and I couldn't even install my old Office 2000 . Admittedly, XP professional is infinitely better. But even if all the login crap is hiding now, there are still traces of it (such as the Startup menu and the ignominous "shared files" folder )

When you start up the computer for the first time, all logins you create have admin priveleges at start. So what is the problem?

	01-11-2003 23:28									#44
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quote: Originally posted by aneeshm Uh , yeah , right . I don't have a single post in the Mac forums . In fact , I've never worked with Macs in my life . So I think this is just a little bit unjustified . It's just that I dislike people who gloat over what they have done , like in Glonkie's case , and the way they do it. (I like that name , sounds much less dignified than Asher)

How do you know he was speaking of the Mac forum, and asher?




DL.

	01-11-2003 23:34									#45
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The problem is shown in the attached pic. It messes up some of my data, since some autamatically goes to "all users" and some automatically goes to "administrateur".

Besides, I highly dislike being called "administrateur" simply because I can't have the same name as my computer (which would be "Spiff")

Don't get me wrong, it doesn't ruin my whole XP experience. But I think of identities as something that is only an annoyance to me, whenever they decide to make an appearance.
For my needs, it would be infinetely better if XP was single-user in heart. As it is, it can only look like a single-user OS when you half-ass the disappearance of the most glaring aspects of multi-userness.

Attachment: identities suck.jpg
This has been downloaded 37 time(s).

	01-11-2003 23:37									#46
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Az:
I've seen Aneeshm post here (and on topic at that IIRC) for some time already, so I don't think he's a DL.
The Mac forum drama is quite well known in the forum, mostly thanks to the heated thread in the community forum

	02-11-2003 00:10									#47
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Even people who gloat over doing the RIGHT THING?!

He gloated not over what he had done right , he gloated over how he "won" oner those other posters . Also , I don't like his methods .

Check me for a DL if you want , I've registered way back when playing Civ2 .

I also have checked out the Community forum and Spif's thread in OT , along with the counterglow forums , where Asher joked about this . I don't mind doing the right thing , I mind doing it the wrong way .

I've been lurking for a long time , only now have I started really posting .

Back on topic (this , coming from me )

I've never had any problems with XP (though I don't use it here) .

	02-11-2003 00:18									#48
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quote: Also , I don't like his methods .

Like informing the mods of a violation of the rules?

quote: I also have checked out the Community forum and Spif's thread in OT , along with the counterglow forums , where Asher joked about this . I don't mind doing the right thing , I mind doing it the wrong way .

Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons is still the right thing.

	02-11-2003 00:30									#49
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This is good news. These type of embedded systems are very Linux hospitable. The wearable computing people are using Linux, so the military can reuse a lot of the code.

	02-11-2003 00:36									#50
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Except that it then has to RELEASE the code...

	02-11-2003 00:44									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Az: I've seen Aneeshm post here (and on topic at that IIRC) for some time already, so I don't think he's a DL. The Mac forum drama is quite well known in the forum, mostly thanks to the heated thread in the community forum

I am only kidding. If I really wanted to find out whether he was a DL, i'd PM him. He knows that I am not Asher a rat, (), and won't turn him over. Unless, I am Ming's DL.

	02-11-2003 00:45									#52
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What is wrong with being, as you call it, a "rat"? Isn't it the RIGHT thing to report a violation of the rules?

	02-11-2003 00:47									#53
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quote: I also have checked out the Community forum and Spif's thread in OT , along with the counterglow forums , where Asher joked about this . I don't mind doing the right thing , I mind doing it the wrong way .

What wrong way? Maybe you would have prefered a PM to a mod, but when asked the mod would have said he got a PM and all the Macheads would have suspected Asher (even if it wasn't him). Granted, if I came upon the forum, I would have just PMed Ming, but then Asher would take the heat anyway. The Macheads hate him for breaking up their parties with cold, hard facts .

	02-11-2003 01:31									#54
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quote: Except that it then has to RELEASE the code...

You only have to release changes to modules. If the military builds on top of those modules, they don't have to release.

	02-11-2003 01:31									#55
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Still not a good thing.

	02-11-2003 01:32									#56
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Why so?

	02-11-2003 01:54									#57
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Wow.

quote: - I couldn't make a "swap" particion. I've let 520 Megs out of any partition in the past, and RedHat refused to use it as swap. A problem with Cylinders apparently (can't know more). Fortunately, my PC is generous with RAM (1024 Mb), so it's not that bad. Sounds like a weird-ass BIOS, Linux often has a hard time understanding those. If you do need swap one day, and you have support for loopback devices in the userland and the kernel (and if you have RH, you ought to), you could configure a swap file (note: I'm not sure if these commands will work, even on my system - I'm just writing them from memory):

That's from the thread Spiffor linked to. First paragraph is his, second mine. There's only two possible explanations as to why I said what I said: Either I was asleep or several magnitudes more ignorant at that time than I am now. At the point you can even consider such things as paging to disk BIOS control has gone bye-bye long ago... hm... I guess I just assumed that it had something to do with similar things happening when loading the boot sector.

* Ari Rahikkala shakes his head at himself

	02-11-2003 02:36									#58
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Why so?

It limits what they can do with the software.

	02-11-2003 03:38									#59
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Why? Have any examples?

	02-11-2003 03:41									#60
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There is no advantage to using Open Source software in the military if you must release any modifications you make to it to anyone else, like China.

Being able to "build upon it" is something you can do with stock commercial apps.