30-10-2003 23:24									#31
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I will not vote since events in the other continent will likely dictate our position towards CFC. As it stands I would much prefer to keep CFC around for a while longer but things can change in this game quicker than you can blink an eye.

Btw, I also do NOT support a triggering of CFC's GA.

	30-10-2003 23:30									#32
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CFC may consider our refusal to trigger their GA as an insult on our alliance/partnership (just like not giving them BoP). When we state that we think it's an "exploit" and that we would rather not use it, they'll think we're being even more uncooperative.

We're surrounded by lose-lose situations!


Dominae

	30-10-2003 23:38									#33
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So far, the GA triggering issue has not come up in any discussions with CFC. But it's something that we need to look at, evaluate and have some form of answer if and when it does come up.

One of the issues that I can see with a peaceful triggering of the GA is that they won't want to use it in a war against us. Preventing that is what the FAM is for and having the neccisary carrots to wave at CFC to keep the peace is what this part of the discussion is about.

E_T

	30-10-2003 23:56									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae CFC may consider our refusal to trigger their GA as an insult on our alliance/partnership (just like not giving them BoP). When we state that we think it's an "exploit" and that we would rather not use it, they'll think we're being even more uncooperative. Dominae

Hell no! We tell them most people here consider it an exploit. period, no dicussion. One thing is being their allies but one thing is being their b*tches and using exploits to help them. That is where we draw the line.

	31-10-2003 01:24									#35
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Speaking of that PBEM game, Vondrack, I was surprised to see the sale of SR's warrior for Dave's GA. That's not something I would have imagined SR would be willing to do.

Of course, Dave then used his GA to crush his neighbor (Nor Me) and become the dominant power. And nobody was able to catch him.

-Arrian

	31-10-2003 06:11									#36
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I voted post-Cavs and pre-RR... and then rail ASAP for continental protection, and build out an infrastructure that appropriately manages corruption.

	31-10-2003 06:35									#37
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The poll is currently rather decisive, in taht only 4 out of 21 votes so far have been for eliminate CFC sooner than RR, which is a very long way off. Almost fully half of the votes (10/21) just call for an alliance and cooperatin on military plans. This so far gives us 17/21 who oppose planning at this time any aggression against CFC before RRs, at the earliest.

Situations can change, and I believe this sentiment will as well, but I am firmly with those who oppose planning to be aggressive in any way towards CFC before the end of the GCA war, which is itself 10-15 turns away still at the earliest.

ONE enemy at a time, alright?

	31-10-2003 09:19									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus I voted post-Cavs and pre-RR... and then rail ASAP for continental protection, and build out an infrastructure that appropriately manages corruption.

Railing for Continental Protection is my speciality.... 3 turns in the SPDG to RR all 47 cities together, coast to coast to coast.....

Of cource, the Worker Orders for 5 turns of movement was 2 to 3 pages long...

E_T

	31-10-2003 10:22									#39
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt The poll is currently rather decisive, in taht only 4 out of 21 votes so far have been for eliminate CFC sooner than RR, which is a very long way off. Almost fully half of the votes (10/21) just call for an alliance and cooperatin on military plans. This so far gives us 17/21 who oppose planning at this time any aggression against CFC before RRs, at the earliest. Situations can change, and I believe this sentiment will as well, but I am firmly with those who oppose planning to be aggressive in any way towards CFC before the end of the GCA war, which is itself 10-15 turns away still at the earliest. ONE enemy at a time, alright?

It is worth noting, though, in our long-range goals and planning, that the team is very evenly split on CFC's health into the endgame.

	31-10-2003 11:04									#40
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F-P, if it's a question about the endgame, I DOUBT a single member here would be in favor of keeping them that long!

	31-10-2003 12:34									#41
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*BigFree notices how many CFC sympathiser's there are on this team and creates a list of said persons so that he can submit their names to the NSA for a complete background check...

	31-10-2003 13:12									#42
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Have them look me up first.

	31-10-2003 13:28									#43
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* Master Zen notices a full 24 hours have gone past without him and BF disagreeing over something...

	31-10-2003 13:31									#44
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

*BigFree Smacks around MZ with a rotten tuna fish so that MZ does not feel neglected.

	31-10-2003 19:56									#45
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Just as a side note, we may see the "endgame" very differently- I think it is highly likely that there will be either one team on each continent or one team on one continent and two on the other by the era of tanks; I consider the "Endgame" of civ anything after the emergence of the tank, since who has production/resources and who doesn't becomes painfully clear VERY quickly in that era.

	31-10-2003 21:03									#46
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The poll standings so far:
CFC dies: 13 votes
CFC lives: 11 votes

	31-10-2003 21:11									#47
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Who said that "We should ally with CFC and make military plans with them." means CFC lives?

It means only "they'll live for a while" or "they will be the last civ eliminated"

	31-10-2003 21:23									#48
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Situations can change, and I believe this sentiment will as well, but I am firmly with those who oppose planning to be aggressive in any way towards CFC before the end of the GCA war, which is itself 10-15 turns away still at the earliest. ONE enemy at a time, alright?

Please not mistake the results of this poll to imply "we should kiss CFC a$$ in diplomatic negotiations". It is possible not to be at war with someone and still be firm and uncompromising on certain issues (like BoP). I'm tired of hearing that we should appease CFC just because they are little on edge right now.

Like I've said before, CFC's timetable to attack us will has very little to do with us and our diplomacy; they'll attack us when they think they have the best chance militarily.


Dominae

	02-11-2003 17:50									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Please not mistake the results of this poll to imply "we should kiss CFC a$$ in diplomatic negotiations". It is possible not to be at war with someone and still be firm and uncompromising on certain issues (like BoP). I'm tired of hearing that we should appease CFC just because they are little on edge right now.

Agreed, but we will clearly not be telling them to piss off and too bad you don't get BoP as has occasionally been mentioned (although hopefully in jest).

We will continue to deal with CFC as friends and as equals until we reach such a time as we benefit more from dealing with them as rivals. Declining to let them have BoP is completely separate to planning to attack them ASAP, and I am pleased it seems the team at large agrees with me here for the moment.

	04-11-2003 13:52									#50
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Please notify CFC that we have decided not to kill them off right now. That should be good news for them

	05-11-2003 01:47									#51
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HAR HAR HAR.

ermm, please don't. Just in case anyone took BFM seriously.

	05-11-2003 12:19									#52
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No one ever does

* BigFurryMonster doesn't even take himself seriously.

	05-11-2003 12:19									#53
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edit: removed (double post)

	05-11-2003 12:24									#54
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damn, I was just about to write them a small note...