13-11-2003 18:46									#31
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Looks like we found our spies, HE...

	13-11-2003 19:43									#32
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We need to discuss damage control. Obviously GS will not be as hesitant to attack now, which is good, yes?

	13-11-2003 19:52									#33
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Depends, they could have told them that we are prepared for the impending attack.

The question now becomes how much did Lego know to be letting on? We know (or reasonably suspect) that GS knows of gunpowder and it's whereabouts. We now also know that at least one of these members is still on Lego. I HIGHLY recommend that any information being given to Lego is done so under the assumption that GS will hear of it in some form.

	13-11-2003 23:55									#34
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Here's what Vondrack told me, he said that the 2(I'll hold the names secret) told GS that Lego was willing to assist in a 3 way war against ND. Additionally it now appears they told GS that Lego was not happy being dragged inot this war. apparently it was less spying and just plain error. The good news is that probably this encourages GS to attack. Personally I was hoping they would hold off a turn(next turn YK is pop 7 with musk) in the north and go after Alamo this turn.

Here's what GS sees in the south. We lost 10+ units in fighting near Pamploma(the loss was regretable, but ended RP militarily). They also know we attacked their stack of units in the desert 2 turns ago. They must think we are weak in the south. Another piece of evidence is that they put those knights in range of the alamo catapults. Well knights there either attack or get worn down to nothing. They also can't withdraw them without exposing them to attack in the open. So attack is their only option. Either this turn or next.

My greatest fear is that these two told GS that we wanted GS to attack the Alamo. also this chat explains why RP suddenly got a back bone.

Aggie

	14-11-2003 02:34									#35
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Here's what was said by the people:

a) they said we had a defensive alliance with GoW
that is to be triggered by GS invasion of your homelands
as that has not happened yet, "Legoland has remained uninvolved so far"
uhm
b) they accidentally revealed that we were allied to ND, too
(something GS did not know or at least was not sure about)
c) they made the impression that Lego's main concern was how to avoid fight
as in how do to it to not have to honour our promises
d) they made it quite clear Lego would prefer if GoW made a backstab deal with GS (against ND)
e) and the worst...
they told them we would not support an invasion of Stormia

Aggie

	14-11-2003 04:21									#36
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Yep...

I got a 2nd email from Vondrack (at home) saying that he could not guarantee that someone from Lego handed over a map.
But then I doubt GoW could say anything different. We too have a lot of inactive members.
Plus there is Vox (Who could be playing both sides)
And ND of course.

We simply need to accept, that secrets are going to be told. And something as juicy as "No Saltpeter for you" was too good too keep.

	14-11-2003 04:27									#37
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And I also discussed a few other things with him...

GS may not be afraid of Lego military (especially if GS know howmany knights Lego has) but they would be afraid of starting the war because of war weariness.

So perhaps...
1. We could use Lego knights as "human shields" to protect our cities rather than offensive options. ie put them in the way of GS troops.
2. If GS move against any other city other than Yellow Kniife, we could gift the city to Lego.

It was just general chatting & tossing up a few ideas.

	14-11-2003 05:05									#38
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Oh! I like the human shield idea!

	14-11-2003 16:15									#39
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I am in a PBEM with Vondrack.
He sends the game file to me.
He often sends a note...which I often respond to.

Here is an extract

quote: Very true. I respect ties like this, because I believe one should not change sides at will, unless he really is free of explicit/implicit obligations to the party in question (to be attacked). When the other party is generous to me at one time, I'd not enjoy any kind of victory achieved through backstabbing it.

He is talking about our PBEM.....but I am quite certain he is also talking about PTWDG

quote: Re GS: Yeah, that's my impression as well. But sooner or later they will find out there is nothing to be gained by negotiating - and they'll strike, as they'll have nothing to lose. The best we can hope for, I believe, is 1-3 more turns before they attack. Hopefully, at least those nine knights of ours will get within the striking distance. I know it is not much, especially compared with the numbers you, ND, and GS have on Bob, but we did send everything we had over the sea. No reserves left. I am ocassionaly being criticised for leaving our homeland defenses woefully weak... but then, it's not just me wanting all our high punch units over on Bob, it's the majority of the team. LEF4 (3 more vet knights) already sailing over, LEF5 (1-2 vet knights and 1-2 vet muskets) sail out this turn. And we are building knights in several of our high shield cities. But still, it can be rough for a couple of turns... > It is dissappointing to hear of your internal troubles. But it looks like you have sorted it out. Lets hope not too much damage was done. Most damage was done on the "personal" level I'd say, even though they learned few bits they were not supposed to know, too. Exactly the kind of stuff I hate - you tell the other party something which is not true or even a direct lie. When the other party finds out... oh, well. I am going to try to fix that, but I doubt whether I'll be able to achieve anything. The only good thing might be GS probably understood the chat as an encouragement to hope/struggle for a diplomatic solution, seeing us as "undecided" or "not really with a particular side". Dunno... but even if that's the case, it's still bad, as that is completely false... I'd never tell them anything like this (I would not chat with them at all, in the first place... grrr). > GS are having chats with everyone at the moment...trying to negotiate a way out, but still save face. I think they have suddenly realised their mistake of choosing the wrong ally. LoL. Sounds just about right. I find it amazing how much this game is influenced by things having nothing to do with micromanagement, knowing all tricks etc. GS must be truly excellent in MM & knowing the game mechanics, but they are going to lose the game because of not being able to project their awesome power properly, virtually burning it in a series of unfortunate high-level decisions...

And regarding the saltpeter leak to GS & RP

quote: I am very sad to say I consider a leak from Lego possible. Perhaps notlikely, but definitely possible. I am now sure someone told RP we had gp (they had no means to know, but Arnelos KNEW when he had our chat; so someone must have told him... I would not be surprised if he was told the exact location of their nearest deposit, too). After seeing the rogue chat ?@#$%& held with GS, I guess I do not want to know what else he might have told them or RP outside of what we know. Curse him, bastard. What he did was nothing short of a treason. I am glad he left the team.

	14-11-2003 19:29									#40
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I would edit your post to take the name out of it... but I can't

I have no idea why, as moderator, I can't even edit other's posts!

	15-11-2003 03:11									#41
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Im against gifting a city to lego, personally.

ONLY, and I reiterate ONLY if we make a big public display of NOT doing it.

Spit on their code of honor some more. Post that while we may engage in questionable diplomacy, we at least don't abuse gifting cities.

This they will respond in a flame of attacking our repeated capturing of catapults.

Perhaps we can get more of their members to leave.