06-01-2004 21:49									#61
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by rah The most glaring shortcoming in most of the early strategy discussions, was the lack of focus on trade. Fortunately, that was soon corrected.

I wish I could find a particular trade advice thread. There were multiple "build more camels" offerings. Then some wag offered one of the funniest things I ever read at Poly. I don't want to spoil the punchline so I'll just say it involved an "incident" growing out of having too many camels in one place. Does anyone who remembers have a link to that thread?? Or even the name of the poster?? Thanks.

Monk

	07-01-2004 01:54									#62
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quote: Originally posted by GP I want the damn old threads. markos, do the conversion.

I think the conversion would be ideal - since we could also reply - but for viewing itself only the thread lists of archived forums could be made accessible again.

quote: Originally posted by civman2000 Oldest thread I can find (from 2/99!): http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/H...html?date=16:27

You see this is one UBB archive thread. So they still exist... Only the lists are missing.

	07-01-2004 02:45									#63
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quote: Originally posted by civman2000 Oldest thread I can find (from 2/99!): http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/H...html?date=16:27

What a fun read!! Who knew?? For OCC, GL and KRC are "essential".

But it was interesting to watch (from today's perspective) as the theory of OCC developed. If those old and lost threads were available reading them might spur someone to rethink some current, longheld belief.

Monk

	07-01-2004 05:19									#64
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I want to have the old threads (OT type ones) in Civ2general so that I can "accidentaly" bump them. Or so that some newbie will do so, not realizing that we have an OT (formerly 2)

	07-01-2004 14:51									#65
	Inflate your Upload Space

I would be interested, as long as the strategies and info was valid. It would be a bit of a pointless exercise to resurrect old strats that were later deemed lesser due to more experience/knowledge about the game.

I'd particulary be interested in any threads that dealt with the exact game/AI mechanics - the existence of the Oedo years are a good example of this.

And what say you about a compendium of SMAC info Vel assembled? I have read the guide he wrote (the non-published one), but it tends to more strategies than to the facts and figures about the game and units. Where can I find this Uber-sources of SMAC info?

	07-01-2004 23:09									#66
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People have done OCC in CivIII. I dunno about Deity, though.

When I first found 'poly, the CivII info blew me away. Oedo years! Reading about OCC. Size 1 OCC was just amazing. The tips on trade, which, prior to coming to 'poly, I practically ignored! Excellent stuff.

CivIII's strategy forum has an awful lot of good stuff like that in it too*, but obviously if you don't like the game, it isn't going to interest you much.

-Arrian

p.s. For absurdity bordering on the size1 OCC games, check out Aeson's "So Very Cold of the Map Generator." Unfortunately, I think the screenshots are toast now.

	08-01-2004 13:07									#67
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quote: Originally posted by SlowThinker You see this is one UBB archive thread. So they still exist... Only the lists are missing.

Wait a sec... Am I getting this straight? The old threads exist? You "only" need to know the correct url? Or what lists do you refer to?

Someone, please dig them up...

Carolus

	09-01-2004 15:42									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex Am I getting this straight? The old threads exist? You "only" need to know the correct url? Or what lists do you refer to?

Yes, old URLs work, but not all.
By a list I mean a forum page, like http://apolyton.net/forums/forumdis...p?s=&forumid=14 .
I don't know if UBB lists exist now, but their dissapearance isn't related to the UBB/vBB transition. UBB lists existed even after the transition.

Maybe they could be easily reinstated.

	09-01-2004 15:59									#69
	Inflate your Upload Space

What's the explanation for some working then?

	09-01-2004 20:18									#70
	Full PM-box? Change here!

But if old urls work, then the pages must be hosted by a server somewhere, presumably the same that hosts Apolyton, no (unless they have moved since then; I can't recall)?

Carolus

	09-01-2004 23:32									#71
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike What's the explanation for some working then?

quote: Originally posted by civman2000 Oldest thread I can find (from 2/99!): http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/H...html?date=16:27

quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex But if old urls work, then the pages must be hosted by a server somewhere, presumably the same that hosts Apolyton, no (unless they have moved since then; I can't recall)?

I think so.
I suppose mods disabled (or deleted ) the lists of archived threads some time ago because they thought nobody read them .

I thought somebody of mods would react in this thread...

	09-01-2004 23:39									#72
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex Hm, it's only the first page that's viewable... Carolus

Actually, the other pages are viewable, but the pagenumbers link to the wrong urls. This should work: page 2 and page 3. It's fun to read that old thread again.

	10-01-2004 19:27									#73
	Inflate your Upload Space

Back when I finally won an OCC *sigh* memories...

	12-01-2004 18:11									#74
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Paul Actually, the other pages are viewable, but the pagenumbers link to the wrong urls. This should work: page 2 and page 3. It's fun to read that old thread again.

How did you do that (get the right urls)?

Carolus

	13-01-2004 03:12									#75
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

The links from the pagenumbers said forums-archives where the posted url for page 1 only had forums, so I took the -archives part out and got working urls.

	14-01-2004 17:50									#76
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I was not here for the very earliest period but I remember spending hours and hours reading numerous old threads when I first came across Apolyton.

I had played plenty of Civ1 and a fair bit of Civ2 at that time but of course my game improved a great deal with exposure to all the Apolyton received wisdom.

But what struck me most was the companionability of the place. Good temper and not a little wit were the order of those early days.

I suppose it partly comes from the shared enthusiasm. But perhaps also from the fact that turn based strategy games seem to attract a slightly older age group.

I cannot share your nostalgia for that very earliest period as I took no part in it myself but I am a bit nostalgic for the late flowering which followed. In fact I think that is the period you describe when the level of activity on the strategy forum rivalled OT.

And the various discoveries and achievements came so thick and fast. It was really extraordinary to find the underlying mechanisms of such a familiar game being laid bare and to discover what could be done within the game once the way it ticks was laid bare.

Some of the work put in at that time was of a very high standard. I am a wordsmith by trade and found it a pleasure to read Paul's first description of his policy line in OCC. Its economy of style matches the beautiful economy of the method which it describes.

And the work on barbs, too was beautifully presented. Although that was sparked more from the scenario designer side of things.

Anyway, having recently come back to another bout of Civ3 I half hoped to find a similar buzz on the policy forum. But was not altogether surprised to find matters there to-day a little more sedate. The pace and quality of the Civ2 hayday would be hard to match.

	16-01-2004 21:57									#77
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It's very hit or miss, but if you put your own Apolyton name (assuming it to be reasonably distinctive), or someone else's, into a search engine you will likely get some old threads that way.

Two come up on the first page of hits if I do that - there may be more on later pages I didn't look.

	16-01-2004 23:08									#78
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I perused the Civ2 forum recently and found a sort of index of threads. It was interesting, but I was surprised to not find a comprehensive strat guide.

I mean one that was aimed at the whole game play starting with your 4000bc settler.

I did not see it if it exist anyway. I did not see anything like crackers opening moves either. There is lots of very good stuff, but it is aimed at a very narrow area for the most part.

	17-01-2004 01:03									#79
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 I perused the Civ2 forum recently and found a sort of index of threads. It was interesting, but I was surprised to not find a comprehensive strat guide. I mean one that was aimed at the whole game play starting with your 4000bc settler. I did not see it if it exist anyway. I did not see anything like crackers opening moves either. There is lots of very good stuff, but it is aimed at a very narrow area for the most part.

You found the Great Library topped thread narrow??

Monk

	17-01-2004 02:09									#80
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Not in the sense that it has lot of links to lot of useful information.
I was rather saying that if you wanted to fine tune some aspect of your play, then you probably could get what you need.
If you were a new player or played very little, I did not see any thread that would step you through the better techniques of playing CivII.

IOW, you start of with 4000bc, here is one method of play to get the upper hand. There are many such threads for CivIII, of varing degrees of value.

I just expected to see some siminal work ala Vels SMAC guide. In no way did I intend to denigrade the fine work done.

	17-01-2004 03:29									#81
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I have played many hundreds of games of Civ2 and I do not believe such a road map from 4000bc to be useful or possible.

There are just too many possibilities, almost at every turn, to make that kind of undertaking meaningful or comprehensive. If you have followed any of the Succession Games at the General/Help site, you will immediately see that for every person's turn, someone else is likely to have suggestions for how it could have been played differently.

Even for the special case of the One City Challenge style of play, where Paul wrote the Bible of preferred choices, people have made variations. And the variations multiply when there are unique map considerations, player positions, or objectives.

Using the games' tutorial as a general start and then the Great Library for broad brush ideas, the wonderful, timeless game of Civ2 can unfold in as many directions as there are players. In other words, there is no one way to play Civ2; it is totally up to you and your creativity. That is part of what makes Civ2 the benchmark for turn based games...IMHO, of course.

Monk

	17-01-2004 03:43									#82
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Of course it is true that one size does not fit all, but none the less functional roadmaps are quite possible.

Really just outlining the options and their consequences is sufficient. It was just a thought, not important. Civ2 is of no interest to me since Civ3 anyway. I would prefer to keep my fond memories of it as they are.

	17-01-2004 05:13									#83
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quote: Originally posted by East Street Trader if you put your own Apolyton name (assuming it to be reasonably distinctive), or someone else's, into a search engine you will likely get some old threads that way

EST, happy to see you again ( but not in Civ2 forums).

I don't think you get further in the past than by a simple 'from the beginning' option: this way you get to 8 Nov 1999 (Where is the original OCC Thread? ).

The main problem is that threads in the old UBB format (like http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/H...html?date=16:27) are not accessible without knowledge of the link.

	19-01-2004 13:54									#84
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Now I'm not sure anymore that knowing the link is sufficient.

I went to the thread you linked to and then to the thread linked to in that thread. I thus arrive at a thread in which I collected the early OCC threads.

In that thread the oldest link is working (it's the thread started by geofelt where Ming pulls the first OCC off, also linked to earlier above in this thread), but some of the others do not work. I got the message "Forum thread no longer exists" when I tried...

But the links are in chronological order with the oldest one at the bottom. The others are thus not as old, yet they do not work...

The only reason I can come up with is that it's the date of the last post in each thread that decides whether the thread has survived or not. That is, the last post in the oldest thread is more recent than the last post in threads that where started after the oldest one...

It's too early in the morning for me... Does this make sense or not?

Carolus

	19-01-2004 13:59									#85
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No, that can't be it.

None of the other links in my collection of OCC threads works... And the last post in every one of them can't be older than the last post in the oldest thread...

Carolus

	19-01-2004 16:51									#86
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That oldest thread was from Feb 1999, but the last post was from Aug 2000. Most threads don't get bumped so long after the last post, so it's very likely that none of the other threads have newer posts.