23-11-2003 01:19									#61
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Here is one thing about History in general:

We read accounts, view any photographs if available during that time period, read so called logs, and then we add our input and ideas to what may not be "exactly" clear.

I am not an Historian, nor am i old enuff to have been around while these events actually took place, BUT..

This movie was entertaining

Was in "exactly" historically accurate with every small and large detail?..

Most assuredly not, although we here surely cannot be the benchmark, we must use what has been presented to us by so called experts...........

Should we "pick" apart a film and then put it under a microscope?

I think maybe we should if a film is based upon a recount of a specific Historical event..such as what Oliver Stone did to J.F.K...but then again NO ONE HERE knows exactly what went on either..our government lies as well as other governments, cover up and close ranks!!

Now..go see this

or dont go see this

But...for entertainment value..yeah..have some fun..for a few hours then go back to your lives of picking apart each and every detail of YOUR otherwise perfectly detailed and scripted life!

WHOA!!

Let me get off me soapbox..Im starting to sound like a moderator!!

Actually, MtG seems of all the Mods I have reads posts from, fairly knowledgeable..SEEMS to know his facts so I say this


If you think this film needs picking apart, fellow Martial Artists alike..come join me and view

THE LAST SAMAURAI

Then we can tear that apart, how a nascar driver,fighter jet pilot and teen-prostitue user could possible pull off the depiction of a SAMURAI

Peace

Grandpa-"Not-An-Historian-but-an-entertainment/relaxation-Guru"-Troll

	23-11-2003 07:56									#62
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A few questions I have about the film:

1) Was the bit about the kid leading a second assault on the French ship at all realistic?

2) Would the Americans really be making warships for France so recently after fighting a Quasi naval war with them?

	23-11-2003 08:02									#63
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc A few questions I have about the film: 1) Was the bit about the kid leading a second assault on the French ship at all realistic? 2) Would the Americans really be making warships for France so recently after fighting a Quasi naval war with them?

#1-Would it take much more than a One-Armed Kid?

and

#2-Money talks ...........



Peace

Grandpa Troll

	23-11-2003 09:13									#64
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Yep, I thought it was terrific too. It wasn't Crowe's best performance, but it was pretty good. You're correct in that the story is supposed to center around the doctor and the captain, since the book series are supposed to be written by the doctor.

Frankly I don't think that whalers would be the richest ships in the Pacific. Copper from Bolivia was a particularily strategic cargo to the British, they coated the hulls of their ships with copper to reduce barnicle infestation. They went to no ends to ensure a steady supply. When you consider how important copper was to the British Navy, a captain might indeed have thought that disruption of Pacific trade could drastically affect the war's outcome. If that's true then, the French should have sent their frigate to the coast of Peru, not the Galapagos.

About the young midshipman, I wonder whether they weren't there primarily for the entertainment of the men.

I think the model of the frigate was inaccurate. The revolutionary design of American frigates involved the use of intersecting diagonal braces that offered a large amount of structural support for a lesser amount of weight. This enabled American shipbuilders to put more wood into the walls, making American frigates more shot resistant than most men of war.

	23-11-2003 09:45									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Love the Napoleonic era, line of battle ships under sail, frigates sweeping the ocean and captains chasing prize money.

Have you come across Dewey Lambdin's Alan Lewrie series yet? The first one is The King's Coat. This series has got all the usual tall-ship naval stuff plus a main character who is one randy scoundal.

I'll be seeing M&C within the week.

	23-11-2003 10:01									#66
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Great movie, 3.5/4. The proto-Darwin references were amusing at first, but a wee bit overdone by the end, I think. My only other complaint about the movie was the ending;

spoiler(highlight to read): So is Captain Pulling's head on a pike, or not? Inquiring minds want to know!

Good stuff.

	23-11-2003 10:17									#67
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc A few questions I have about the film: 1) Was the bit about the kid leading a second assault on the French ship at all realistic?

For the Royal Navy, quite possibly, yes, since the kid in question was a son of a Lord and of a family of naval background. Most of the crews were young, so a kid a few years younger, who was going to become an officer, would be treated as as a junior officer. There were no formal naval academies then, and only a single petty officer rank, and three seaman ranks, so things were very much on the apprenticeship / OJT system for both enlisted and officers.

quote: 2) Would the Americans really be making warships for France so recently after fighting a Quasi naval war with them?

Money talks. Due to the blockade in European ports, the froggies would pretty much have to go elsewhere. It's certainly plausible.

	23-11-2003 10:26									#68
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quote: Originally posted by SnowFire spoiler(highlight to read): So is Captain Pulling's head on a pike, or not? Inquiring minds want to know!

spoiler(highlight to read): I'd assume not, given that the Surprise changed course to "escort" the Acheron while the Acheron was still hull in view above the horizon. Also, Captain Howard and a majority of the ship's Royal Marine detachment were left to secure the prisoners on the Acheron (plus they'd routinely secure the ships magazines, etc.)

	23-11-2003 11:01									#69
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Reference one ship having a disproportionate affect on a conflict, I suspect either the original author or the script writer (having neither seen the movie or read the book) may have been influenced by the Confederate commerce raider the Alabama. Seizing 82 ships (out of 200 by all Confederate commerce raiders in the war) she singlehandedly caused such panic that the increase in insurance rates caused most American shippers to reflag under other countries. It pretty much sealed the end of any real attempt by the US to have a world class merchant marine (US flagged, mind you), at least through WW2. She also may have helped save certain whale species from extinction, as she almost eliminated the New England based whaling industry - talk about unintended consequences .

	23-11-2003 18:22									#70
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Money talks. Due to the blockade in European ports, the froggies would pretty much have to go elsewhere. It's certainly plausible.

I am glad to see I do think like a moderator!!

I too said money was most probably the reason.

Now..

I do rememebr joking about an Australians signature and getting warned about being suspended for 3 days becuase i said something along the lines of people think of Australia they think of "Put another shrimp on the barbee" or "G'day Mate" or Croc Dundee..



Now whom was that Anal-Rententive hero..





Yin26!!
He told me to stop making disparaging remarks about folks foreign to America!!

Sooooooo.....MtG..gotta tell ya...One more of those "Froggies" remarks..

(although I agree When it comes to War & Frechmen)

Gonna have to have you lashed!!!!

(JUST like in the Movie!! )

	24-11-2003 04:39									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Ned The captain then shouts that the doctor is quite wrong. Didn't he know that in the Royal Navy that one must prefer the "lesser of two weevils!"

What a fitting joke for a movie about napoleonic times, as that joke is about as old

And yes, i will be seeing Master & Commander, i will be seeing it

	24-11-2003 08:29									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove About the young midshipman, I wonder whether they weren't there primarily for the entertainment of the men.

All lowest-level officers (and some higher level ones, but not by their intention) are for the entertainment of the enlisted men.

quote: I think the model of the frigate was inaccurate. The revolutionary design of American frigates involved the use of intersecting diagonal braces that offered a large amount of structural support for a lesser amount of weight. This enabled American shipbuilders to put more wood into the walls, making American frigates more shot resistant than most men of war.

It was accurate to what it showed - keel, ribs and deck spacing, and within the limits of a (supposedly) scratch carved model . Knees, cross-braces and spreaders couldn't be shown, and those, as you mentioned, were the main innovations (other than better available types of woods) in the design of the three larger United States class frigates.

	24-11-2003 08:33									#73
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I thought it was pretty well-done. My father felt they should have chosen somebody charismatic... but then again, he thinks all actors after 1969 are crap

	24-11-2003 08:41									#74
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat All lowest-level officers (and some higher level ones, but not by their intention) are for the entertainment of the enlisted men.

Yes Indeed MtG..as a boss I end up being the "Buttocks of the Joke"

I sometimes feel badly, but as long as I am being used as the "Butt" of the Joke then they cant say i am good for nothing


Shame that even back "In-The-day" they had Plug 'N Play

[Heh Heh heh..He said PLUG 'N Play]

	24-11-2003 09:24									#75
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I saw it last week, and it was ok. I was disappointed because the reviews had been so good. Was anyone else disappointed that the movie changed the story from that of the book, and switched the Americans and the French? It would have been more interesting to me to see War of 1812 action personally, especially as so many of the story details make a lot of sense in their original context and require a lot of dull explanation in order to seem semi-plausible once the identities are rearranged for a more harmonious marketing posture in the film.

	24-11-2003 09:33									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander I saw it last week, and it was ok. I was disappointed because the reviews had been so good. Was anyone else disappointed that the movie changed the story from that of the book, and switched the Americans and the French?

That would have been an interesting movie to watch. How did they explain the privateer nature of the ship the Brits were hunting if it was American? I don't recall much of that taking place from our side.

	24-11-2003 09:50									#77
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We did a bunch of it, with smaller ships though. We had precious few warships, and the best way to ease the RN blockade on American ports was to have them off protecting their own ports and trade. Given that a huge portion of the RN was still stuck making sure the French weren't too rambunctious during the first part of the war, they had limited naval resources with which to abuse us.

	24-11-2003 11:04									#78
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc That would have been an interesting movie to watch. How did they explain the privateer nature of the ship the Brits were hunting if it was American? I don't recall much of that taking place from our side.

The U.S. captured over 600 British ships during the War of 1812, raiding all over the world to do so. We had fewer and smaller ships, but much better crew quality because we had so many people employed in the maritime trades and didn't press people into service. This more than made up for our rather inglorious performance on land during the peace negotiations.