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pauli
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herndon, va, usa
Jan 2000
time: 00:32
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anything that hinders the conqueror helps the builder. at least in theory.
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ducki
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quote:
Originally posted by Slax
I don't remember players complaining about MGLs rushing wonders before C3C. Did this come from the beta? |
I never really full-on complained, but it did bug me a bit that builders were at a horrible disadvantage in the wonder race.
Not everyone wants to fight as much as you must to generate leaders in anything resembling a consistent manner, but almost everyone researches tech.
I'm not saying the chance for SGLs is "right", I'm just saying that (IMO) you shouldn't have to go to war in order to rush a wonder.
I like SGLs so far, even though I've only gotten 1. It seems fairer in regards to both Builder vs. Warmonger and Player vs. AI(although you could argue that it's actually player vs AIs which mangles the odds a bit).
Edit:
quote:
YS said: I do love the MGLs... but I'm not sure about the Wonder rushing change. Yeah, it was too easy before, but still, I've yet to get one SGL out of about 10 epic games. Sure, I haven't always had the tech lead, but I often have had it... it's a bit galling... there's a lot of talk about how not allowing MGLs to rush wonders helps the builder, but frankly, a 3% success rate for being in the lead - which can take some effort - seems simply too minimal, and not very pro-builder at all. |
I played dozens of Vanilla Civ3 before getting a single MGL, so it's not too out of whack in that regard, but at least with MGLs you can maximize your odds.
Maybe being the first to a tech should give you a cumulative bonus to your chances, reset upon the generation of a SGL or upon entering a new age, whichever comes first? Or maybe some other way for the player to influence his chances similar to "Getting the Most Out of Your Elites".
Last edited by ducki on 27-11-2003 at 02:09
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Catt
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California - SF Bay Area
May 2002
time: 21:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
But the argument that the game now favors the builder is still subject to debate, in my view. |
I wouldn't argue that the game favors the builder now, nor am I sure anyone really has made that argument (if someone does, I'll join you in debating that one  ). Warfare still allows you to acquire land, resources, population, wonders, techs, gold, etc. and simultaneously deny sich things to your enemies -- i.e., warmongering is still a very, very profitable Civ business.
It's rather that the C3C changes strengthen a builder's hand a bit and weaken a warmonger's hand a bit.
Catt
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dworkin
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Given the way armies act now, the dark side will remain as popular as ever.
In my first game I have just hit Cavalry and OMG! The 3 Cav army rocks. It slices, it dices, it heals in 1-2 turns and comes back for more!
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CerberusIV
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I have 2 crusader armies in my current game. 7/4/2, then I built the Military Academy so they are now 8/5/2. I will have a third army shortly to build the Pentagon and have saved a couple of spare crusaders to add so a 4 crusader army becomes 10/6/2 with at least 16HP. That is more than useful against riflemen, possibly even against infantry so one big change is that armies extend the useful life of older units. I will be using 4 cav armies to attack in the mid-industrial now, not just parking them in captured cities to deter culture flips.
Two minor gripes about crusaders. Yes, they are good to put into armies since you can't upgrade them anyway but then they lose the build fortress ability. Second they can build fortresses but then can't add barricades (perhaps I can change that one in the editor).
Final thought here - there is no question in my mind what to do with that first MGL now - it has to be an army, anything else can wait or be built the hard way.
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Theseus
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The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:32
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I was screwing around with my second epic game, playing the Maya as inspired by that thread.
Well, first of all, who ever said the Maya are for builders? 
But second, MAN, I am I psyched about Armies. In the screenshot below, I've got four Musket+2xMedInf Armies. One at in the bottleneck to the NW, and three are at the bottleneck to the NE. The plan had been to leave one at each bottleneck, and for the other two to have been the vanguard of my Aztec Punitive Expedition. There was a whole bunch of other units in the prep city as well: Muskets, MedInfs, Longbows, and Trebuchets.
Lo and behold, here come the Aztec Knights!!
Yeah? You talking to me and my Armies??
Ah pity da fool! 
They attack, losing 15, redlining 3, and with one at 3hp (killed a Musket).
And with Barracks, all three Armies were fully healed for my turn.
Yeaaahhhh, baby.
 Attachment: mayan armies.jpg
This has been downloaded 75 time(s).
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Theseus
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The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:32
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Yeah, I am still just mucking about with C3C epic games to get a feel for things... won't play one for real until a patch.
But I was pleasantly surprised at:
* The quality of the Aztec attack.
* That they went after an Army-laden city (although that wasn't too smart... one step forward, one step back, eh?).
* The performance of the Armies. Towards the end, they were each at 3-6hp, and thus on defense they did revert to the MedInf... now at, hmm, ~6.1 defense, after the Muskets having taken some hps. Then, to see them spring back to full health!! (That's too much, btw, and should be addressed in a patch)
Pretty friggin' awesome.
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Dominae
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You forgot Radar Towers...
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mimi
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Where Moose are Meat
Feb 2002
time: 01:32
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quote:
Originally posted by bongo
With nukes?
In PTW the AI would not attack if the odds of winning were below 5% |
I hate nukes. For the first time, out of the blue mind you, Babylon sent 3 ICBMs ... and, since I have animations turned off 'cause I'm sick of watching 45 units attack per turn, I didn't even know what had happened until I looked for my units and saw a huge orange landmass. Rude Babys!
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Apolyton Time is 00:32. |
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21-11-2003 20:11
Oh My! 
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