19-11-2003 09:20									#181
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The only arguments of any worth here are Dinodoc's.

	19-11-2003 12:46									#183
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Seeing as that is his main ultimate goal, I think democratising the ME is something he is definetly interested in.

Oh please, stop pushing that bullshit to the poor souls of Apolyton.

	19-11-2003 15:06									#184
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue No-one ever claimed that the probability of a successful threat would be reduced to 0%. In fact, I'd love it to happen. It'd get rid of a fair few of the whinging cowards on our great island.

I obviously missed the bit where you volunteered to fight to defend your country. Easy for you to send our troops into battle from your cozy drunken student house isn't it.

	19-11-2003 17:07									#185
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH I obviously missed the bit where you volunteered to fight to defend your country. Easy for you to send our troops into battle from your cozy drunken student house isn't it.

touché.
praising water and drinking wine.
and branding those as cowards who prefer acting to their beliefs.

	19-11-2003 18:03									#186
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Tripledoc,

"All hindi's hate muslims"

Do they really ?? first off, they are Hindu's not Hindi's (Hindi is the language many people in India speak).

Secondly, they are human beings, and are subject to the the same wonderful diversity as all other groups.

Finally, Many Hindu's regularly attend Church, Mosque, Temple and Gurudwara's .. unlike almost any other religion on earth .. if you took the time to go to India and meet the people you speak for, you'd discover the culture in India is accepting of almost all religeous ideology (even if it contradicts) .. What they don't accept (and nor does any other religious person worth their salt) is violence to acheive a goal .. Gandhi should be a role model for all who are oppressed.

Of course there are bad in all society .. but that does not mean ALL society is bad.

	19-11-2003 18:22									#187
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I have never read or heard of a Hindu who did not hate Muslims. Except Ahrundati Roy, a Communist, but remarkably sane.

Why if you are so accepting of other religions do you allow for the burning down of mosques and the massacre of Muslims? All instigated by Hindu-nationalist politicians. Why were these politicians not punished? Is India not a Democracy where there is rule of law?

It does from the outside look as if a large part of the Indian political elite accepts the occasional anti-muslim massacre just to give the poor rabble something to divert their attention from.

	19-11-2003 19:07									#188
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That's bullshit. Most Hindus don't hate Moslems, just as the converse is true. Just because there have been Hindu fundamentalists in control of the Gujurati gov't, doesn't mean all Hindus are intolerant. And to India's credit, it did a decent job of investigating the matter.

And yes, the Indian gov't unforunately turns blind eye to persecution of Moslems far too often, but then again, the gov't in Bangladesh for instance (another democracy with rule of law), has been turning a blind eye towards persecution of Hindus far too often.

	19-11-2003 19:12									#189
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"I have never read or heard of a Hindu who did not hate Muslims."

I've met some.

	19-11-2003 19:14									#190
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this is going to go over well with the working class...
http://www.thisislondon.com/news/bu...cles/timid70616

	19-11-2003 19:32									#191
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Looks like Bush is giving the infamous 'kiss of death' to his old 'buddy'.

Withe allies like that who would need enemies?

	19-11-2003 19:53									#192
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Imagine how much the US would have screwed us over if we hadn't supported them over Iraq?

Thanks!

	19-11-2003 20:46									#193
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As much as the poor French, I presume.

	19-11-2003 21:25									#194
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Bush delivered an absolutely beautiful and amazing speech today durting his visit to England, at Whitehall Palace .

There are so many great quotes, I don't where to even begin but you can read the full transcript here:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,103514,00.html

	19-11-2003 21:33									#195
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It was a good speech. My compliments to his Speechwriters for finding so many excellent Brits to mention.

quote: Secretary Straw and Secretary Hoon, Admiral Colbold (ph) and Dr. Shipman (ph)

Interesting that Britains most prolific serial killer was there.

	20-11-2003 18:31									#196
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to add more fuel to the fire...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Stor...1089158,00.html

	20-11-2003 20:16									#197
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If the report is correct I have to thank Mr Perle for ending the silly charade.

And for sparing me the annoyance of high school kiddies arguing international law.

	20-11-2003 20:29									#198
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler If the report is correct I have to thank Mr Perle for ending the silly charade. And for sparing me the annoyance of high school kiddies arguing international law.

If Perle is right, and the choice was between respecting international law or doing the moral thing, what would you have done? I'd have done the moral thing and the heck with international law!

	20-11-2003 20:31									#199
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Of course morality and law can conflict. And of yourse Perle is wrong about this war being right in any way. But what's your point?

	20-11-2003 20:36									#200
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler Of course morality and law can conflict. And of yourse Perle is wrong about this war being right in any way. But what's your point?

My point is that people should stop being so uptight about international law. The important thing is to do the right thing, and the moral thing.

In this case, the war was the moral thing to do, so who cares that it may or may not have been legal?

	20-11-2003 20:37									#201
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(opens bag of popcorn.)

	20-11-2003 20:40									#202
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat My point is that people should stop being so uptight about international law. The important thing is to do the right thing, and the moral thing. In this case, the war was the moral thing to do, so who cares that it may or may not have been legal?

The war was immoral and stupid, but that's not the issue. The relevance of international law isn't the issue either.

I said all along that this war was a blatant violation of international law. And if the report is correct, then people may stop buying the silly pretenses and pseudo-arguments that have been floating around. How you judge that illegality on a moral level is another issue. Can your brain digest that?

Now pass me some popcorn, please.

	20-11-2003 20:51									#203
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here you go. watching the two sides just go at it is quite amusing.

	20-11-2003 21:02									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed this is going to go over well with the working class... http://www.thisislondon.com/news/bu...cles/timid70616

Yowzers! Who needs enemies when your ally stabs you in the back?

	20-11-2003 21:03									#205
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quote: The UN secretary general, Kofi Annan, has questioned that justification, arguing that the security council would have to rule on whether the US and its allies were under imminent threat.

I call BS on that point.

	20-11-2003 21:15									#206
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quote: Originally posted by HershOstropoler The war was immoral and stupid, but that's not the issue.

Iraqis were being tortured and raped in front of their children or parents. Ending that kind of oppression is immoral? So, I guess it is moral to sit by and watch innocent people die???

Liberating innocent people from oppression is moral. The war did liberate them from Saddam's tyranny, therefore the war was moral.

quote: The relevance of international law isn't the issue either.

So, the morality of the war is not the issue, and the relevance of international war is not the issue, then what is? What are we talking about?

quote: I said all along that this war was a blatant violation of international law.

And I am trying to say to you, that if international law means neglecting innocent lives and letting them die under terrible oppression, then I will gladly violate international law.

Sure, we should honor international law, but not if it means being immoral and ignoring suffering.

In this case, the war was neccessary and moral, both to liberate Iraqis from terrible opression and to secure our national security.

If international law means allowing innocent people to die and to neglect your national security, then I don't want it!

	20-11-2003 21:18									#207
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Diplomat, you'd better get busy, there are a lot more countries you need to invade to stop that kind of thing.

	20-11-2003 21:20									#208
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat And I am trying to say to you, that if international law means neglecting innocent lives and letting them die under terrible oppression, then I will gladly violate international law.

And I told you that's another issue. My point is that the war was illegal. Make of that what you want. Now, why don't you continue this discussion with that wall over there? I'm getting bored.

	20-11-2003 21:20									#209
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat If international law means allowing innocent people to die and to neglect your national security, then I don't want it!

Had Bush only adjusted the invasion timetable about a 1 month we would have had both morality and the UN on our side. However, I do question the national security as pect of your statement.

	20-11-2003 21:22									#210
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Isn't breaking the law immoral?