26-11-2003 06:13									#91
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You don't need bards in BG1.. they won't contribute much as you are playing low level characters throughout the game anyway so the bard is far from powerful.

As has been told many times before: simply get a lot of rangers with nice composite bows
I found mages pretty useless too actually.

Now I think of it: I did most of the slaughtering with my main character, the rest was just backup (imoen for opening locks, a mage for a few magic missiles, a druid/fighter for the healing spells and some more losers)
You can see the amount of kills and XP that particular character has made throughout the game somewhere in your character details I think.
At the end of the game for example, my mage had 3500 XP earned in kills just to give you an idea

my ranger owned everybody's ass!
especially if you can lay your hands on the boots of speed

	26-11-2003 06:30									#92
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Go to the Firewine dungeon and kill kobolds till you can't carry any more fire arrows. Then equip whole party with bows and fire arrows. You now RULE

-Jam

	26-11-2003 21:01									#93
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ok, i got the idea, bows are overpowered. Somehow making a party of several bowmen fighters strikes as exploiting that TOO much - a tad cheesy, shall we say?
OTOH, I might make my main character a bow specialist, rather than a sword specialist as in my current game.
Would work better than Imoem with a short bow, and Garrick with a cross bow.

	26-11-2003 21:08									#94
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Went into the hills west of Nashkell,

spoiler(highlight to read): ran into the Xvart camp

and lost the whole party.

Reloaded and went back this time

spoiler(highlight to read): making sure Imoen had magic arrows highlighted, and not going all the way into the camp

This time only lost Minsc and Khaled. So im taking myself, Imoen, Jaheira and Garrick back to Nashkell. Have barely enough money to resurrect and reequip both fighters, asssuming i sell weapons ive captured, but not jewels. This is an expensive way to get XP's.

A walkthrough has shown me 2 things to do in Nashkell before heading out [spoiler] go into the manor house, and find a magic items in a hole near one of the farmers cottages [spoiler] after that its into the woods south of town for, i hope, some easier xp's.

	26-11-2003 21:15									#95
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So whats generally the best makeup for a party - Ive got 2 fighters, a ranger, a fighter/druid, a thief and a bard?

A mage would be good. The bard is unneeded. A thief and a priest seem to be good. Beyond that do i need 3 warriors? Is 2 enough? and if so, what should get instead of the 3rd warrior?

	26-11-2003 22:07									#96
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I have an archer, fighter, cleric, mage, theif and myself (who is worthless)

JOn miller

	26-11-2003 22:20									#97
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the archer, fighter, thief have all the xp too, if that tells yuo anything

(but curing spells are nice, and maybe the mage will be nice at some poitn also)

Jon Miller

	26-11-2003 23:23									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller the archer, fighter, thief have all the xp too, if that tells yuo anything (but curing spells are nice, and maybe the mage will be nice at some poitn also) Jon Miller

Ive used jaheira alot. The bless spell seems to help in combat, then the shillelagh lets her fight. and the curing spell can come in handy.

OTOH i think ive not used her well, since ive left her equipped with a club - should really give her a ranged weapon, like a sling.

	26-11-2003 23:24									#99
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I gave her a Quarter Staff +1 early

but she was only marginally useful, like the current cleric

so I guess I am just hoping that the Cleric will be better later

Jon Miller

	27-11-2003 00:58									#100
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark So whats generally the best makeup for a party - Ive got 2 fighters, a ranger, a fighter/druid, a thief and a bard? A mage would be good. The bard is unneeded. A thief and a priest seem to be good. Beyond that do i need 3 warriors? Is 2 enough? and if so, what should get instead of the 3rd warrior?

Generally I have 2 fighter types, a thief, a cleric, and a couple of mages. The mages, IMHO are the "meat" of the group since their spells can change the outcome of a battle significantly, just keep them protected!!! The cleric is also indispensable, mainly because of the healing spells. In Baldurs gate I'll take a cleric's spells over a druid's anytime.

	27-11-2003 03:00									#101
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At the low levels of BG1, mages don't really become that useful. Ok, they can help a bit, but they don't rule. I'd take one, either Edwin, or myself, or dual-class Imoen at level 5. Clerics/Druids, don't leave home without them. At low levels you need the healing. I like Jaheria 'cos she can fight a bit too. Someone who can pick locks and find traps is needed too. Either a PC thief/fighter multiclass, or a multiclass Imoen. There's no lock in the game hard enough that you need a pure thief.
Then fill up with three fighter types : Rangers, paladins, fighters, as you like. Minsc, Kivan & Ajantis are all good and can be found early on. Give Ajantis (for example) a sword and sheild and the gloves of dexterity, and he's to hold the line while the others support with magic and ranged weapons. The 3 fighter types are the ones getting the kills, the others are helping them stay alive.
I use magic to aid my team and disable the enemy. The damage spells aren't that effective.

-Jam

	27-11-2003 05:11									#102
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The question about ideal party composition is as old as D&D itself, and about as tiresome.

2 Warriors (Fighter/Ranger/Paladin), 1 Priest (Cleric/Druid), 1 Thief (preferably multi-classed; a fighter/thief archer works nicely), 1 Wizard (Mage/Specialist Mage), and 1 "Auxillary" character (A Bard or a multi-classed characer) is the most balanced.

I disagree with everyone about bards; I'm quite fond of them. They can pick pockets, absolving your thief from donating points to this ability. They can cast the odd spell, and fight a little (using any weapon and armor up to chainmail). More importantly they can sing that luck-boosting song at any time ("luck" is a flat term encompassing a bonus or penalty to all of one's THACO, damage, AC, morale, and saving throws). Their lore ability is very nice to identify magic items immediately, though it takes a few levels for it build up sufficiently to be useful. Bards aren't a powerplayer class, but were never meant to be.

On low levels the boring fighter types rule the day obviously, but that changes. If you're planning to keep Minsc LOTM, go rescue Dynaheir at the Gnoll Fortress. She's an invoker and will solve your problem of needing a wizard. By 5th level they really start pulling their weight; I wouldn't do without 'em.

If you're not planning on keeping Minsc, you should pick up Edwin or Xan (the elven prisoner from Naskel Mine).

	27-11-2003 09:42									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski At the low levels of BG1, mages don't really become that useful.

They get to be more useful after they get their 3rd level spells IMHO. I may be in the minority, but I always try to use mages to their fullest extent. I love magic missiles. It is a mainstay of almost every battle that I fight in these games.

	27-11-2003 13:24									#104
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Sure once a mage hits level 5, he starts being pretty tasty. Skulltrap, Fireball, Haste, Lightningbolt.... some of the best spells come now. HOWEVER, A mage needs more XP than anyone else to get to level 5, and then they'll only be really useful for the last part of the game. But not at the very end *grrr magic resistance* That's why I'd only take one... or MAYBE dual Imoen for 2 or MAYBE play as a fighter/mage myself and at least I can use a bow when I'm out of spells, and maybe hit something with it...(very weak in BG1, but turns good in BG2)

-Jam

	30-11-2003 22:52									#105
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But if you can purchase good enough stuff- then mages are useful from level 3 onwards

Another good idea- pick up a mage when your party is level 4 or higher- you won't regret it.

-
Just a basic baldurs gate question here- Do the monster's strength levels increase when your characters levels increase... at least those that ambush you when you camp outside cities at night?

	30-11-2003 22:56									#106
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Back to the stealing topic-
I would think lotm that a good character wouldn't pick up stuff he finds in barrels in towns outside of houses... since someone might be placing them there therefore taking things from barrels and boxes outside of homes in towns would be stealing too, and if you're good- you should avoid that

I tried roleplaying when I first tried the game- but it was too hard to make money being good- therefore I started stealing... and have yet to be caught

	01-12-2003 19:13									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski At the low levels of BG1, mages don't really become that useful. Ok, they can help a bit, but they don't rule. I'd take one, either Edwin, or myself, or dual-class Imoen at level 5. -Jam

So youd suggest the first time I level up Imoen to level her up as a thief, not to dual class her to mage yet?

	01-12-2003 19:15									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Marid Audran The question about ideal party composition is as old as D&D itself, and about as tiresome.

You find D&D tiresome. well understandable, since its been around for decades, and some people must be seriously played out Some of us are new to it though

	01-12-2003 19:20									#109
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well i dropped my last game - was trying to get my main character - a human ranger - up to level 2, before going after to Dynahier - and as things kept getting messed up and i kept returning to Nashkell for one thing or another, I was clearly running out of time to satisfy Minsc.

So I started over, with another human ranger, this time more careful to get XP's early. Made sure in Candlekeep to buy armor suitable for Imoen, and let the 2 baddies join us. Then wandered into the woods, sacrificed the baddie to a bear (this time ive got more charisma, and they seem more inclined to stand and fight) Got a bunch more XP's, now entering FAI.

I dont seem to have healing power - i lowered my intell to minimum - does a ranger need a minimum intell to be able to heal?

	01-12-2003 19:22									#110
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud Back to the stealing topic- I would think lotm that a good character wouldn't pick up stuff he finds in barrels in towns outside of houses... since someone might be placing them there therefore taking things from barrels and boxes outside of homes in towns would be stealing too, and if you're good- you should avoid that I tried roleplaying when I first tried the game- but it was too hard to make money being good- therefore I started stealing... and have yet to be caught

well im playing NG, not LG, so i feel ok stealing OCCASIONALLY, if like the people were so sloppy they asked for it (I mean leaving stuff in barrels outside, really!) or if Im in desperate need. But generally I leave the poor peasants to be secure in their houses.

	01-12-2003 19:26									#111
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dual classing works a little differently

it is very powerful, but yuo want to go up a numver of levels in 1 class, before you add the second class

you are spending too much effort in the early game, I made a sucky character (took first set of stats from random generator (my stats are the lowest in the party), made a mage/thief elf, ect), didn't do some stufff in the early game (like grab the two early evil people, I saw them and thought that they planned to kill me so ducked out of the way)

the attack on the gnomes was not bad, I did it before the mies (in fact I am in the middle of the mines I did a lot of outside stuff first (and the couple never left me, I dropped them when I wanted Dynaire))

Jon Miller

	01-12-2003 21:25									#112
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BTW

how many of you have played Baldur's Gate 2?
(With expansion)

not that I am going to begin playing it for a couple of months, I just like thinking about making characters sometimes

I am not sure how dual classing works, I think that I would like to dual class with one of the cool classes first and than 1 (or more) other classes later

I was thinking about first class being wild mage or shapeshifter or Swashbuckler or Kensai

than throwing in some other class

but I don't really know how it would work

I think it would be great to take something 'fighting' after shapeshifter or wild mage (like paladin, fighter, barbarrian, ranger, or monk) or a mage class (or cleric) after swashbuckler or kensai

it might even be cool to do sometihng like Wild Mage/Cleric(Druid)

help me, I don't know 2nd edition (especially as impleemented in BG2) very well

in BG2 can I dual paladins or bards? (I don't think I can in PnP)

what are the limits to dualling?

is it a bad idea to take mage first?

Jon Miller

	01-12-2003 21:54									#113
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also if I was a mage, and dualed into a sorcerer, would the spells stack?

Jon Miller

	02-12-2003 02:00									#114
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Sorcs can't dual class. Niether can palys, bards and some combinations with druids and rangers (no druid/clerics for example and no ranger/fighters)

In 3ed and 3.5ed you can multi sorcs with mages and the spells stack. Good if you like LOTS of the low level spells

Regarding Imoen, dual class her at level 5 thief. Then she can still get to the highest mage level in BG without breaking the XP cap. This is what the devs intended I think. Look at Imoen in BG2, she's a thief dualled to mage. Thiefs REALLY gain from having Invisbility and Luck as spell choices And the spell Strength is PERFECT for Imoen if she wants to backstab someone.

quote: I am not sure how dual classing works, I think that I would like to dual class with one of the cool classes first and than 1 (or more) other classes later I was thinking about first class being wild mage or shapeshifter or Swashbuckler or Kensai than throwing in some other class but I don't really know how it would work

Always best to take the non-casting=fighting class first. That way you get the full HPs up to level 9 (only 1-3 HPs per level after 9) Also fighters don't improve much after level 13, when they get thier last 1/2 an attack per round. So, either dual at 9 for the max HPs in the fighter class, or 12 for the weapon extra profs or 13 for the extra 1/2 attack. After level 13 fighters are ONLY gaining 3HP and 1 Thac0 per level, and that's not a great reward for 500,000 Exp.

The other cool dual class is to dual to thief, to aim for the high level thief abilities. Again best to start as a fighting class.

Never start with a caster class, and then dual it, because you'll NEVER get the high level spells. Always the other way round, unless you WANT to make your life worse.

quote: is it a bad idea to take mage first?

The very worse. You'll end up with a fighter with a few spells, no armour and rubbish HPs.

Oh, monks can't dual class either. And the second class has to be a "pure class" in all cases, so either vanilla mage, fighter, cleric or thief. You'll need 15+ in your original classes primary stat, and 17+ in the primary stat of the new class. Any more Q's?

I AM obsessed with BG1+2 BTW. Ask me anything.

-Jam

	02-12-2003 02:04									#115
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I guess my question is

but I want to play a Wild Mage

(and I know 3.5 fairly well)

I was thinking 18-22 levels of wild mage, than dual (unless I can dual multiple times??)

Jon Miller

	02-12-2003 02:06									#116
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how about idea of being shapeshifter first and than changing to fighter

also what about barbarrians

are the only changes allowed to vanilla or in some cases druid/ranger???

Jon Miller

	02-12-2003 02:19									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski I AM obsessed with BG1+2 BTW. Ask me anything. -Jam

1. what level should my party be at before i go to the Nashkel mines?

2. Does a less intelligent ranger not get healing ability?

3. If an object doesnt say its not identified, does that mean its not magical?

	02-12-2003 02:43									#118
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quote: I was thinking 18-22 levels of wild mage, than dual (unless I can dual multiple times??)

You won't get enough EXP to get the mage levels back. You need to go one level higher in the new class to regain the levels in the old class, so no spells untill you reach level 19-23 in the new class. That could be 3,000,000 EXP!!!!!!!!!!!

quote: 1. what level should my party be at before i go to the Nashkel mines? 2. Does a less intelligent ranger not get healing ability? 3. If an object doesnt say its not identified, does that mean its not magical?

1. The mines are doable with a level 1-2 party. I'd do the Gnoll fortress first if you have Minsc though. That's on a time limit. A level one party should level up during the mines before the final battles. The mines are not hard.

2. Its wisdom, and only in 3ed. So in the BG games even Minsc gets his spells

3.) If the r-click info on an item doesn't give you an option to identify, then its not magical. Its easy to tell. Also magic items usually look different to to normal versions.

quote: are the only changes allowed to vanilla or in some cases druid/ranger???

Yes, I'm afraid so. You can only have a "kit" on the first class. I'm not sure you can dual barbarians either You can dual :

Fighter
Kensai
Wizard Slayer
Bezerker
Vanilla druids
All clerics
Thief
Assassin
Swashbuckler
Bounty Hunter
Wizards
All specialist mages (but look out for the odd stat requirements like 16 WIS for a necromancer etc)

All these classes can be dualed to cleric, thief, fighter or mage without penalty.

-JAm

	02-12-2003 03:06									#119
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jamski

thanks

It does seem that in my current game my main charecter, a ranger, doesnt have healing. Charm does show up, and it works. Icon for healing doesnt show up when pressing special abilities. Only think i could think of was intell, since i gave him minimum for that. Also gave minimum for wisdom, but thats 14 for rangers.

	02-12-2003 03:40									#120
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Rangers have to reach a certain level to get spells - level 8 i think. The charm animals is an inate ability.