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Catt
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California - SF Bay Area
May 2002
time: 21:32
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I agree with DrSpike that both the corruption and GPT issues are clear bugs and will be fixed. I think its possible, though unlikely, that the RCP aspect of the corruption bugs wouldn't be "fixed" -- one could argue that it is working exactly as intended by the designers, even if many players think it a silly "fix" to penalize equidistant city placement, whether deliberate or inadvertant by the player -- but the FP / city rank issue must clearly be a bug (and I personally expect a new RCP fix implementation).
The challenging aspect of testing anything under present circumstances, IMHO, is that we don't have a grasp of how the AI benefits or suffers due to the bugs. If we were playing no-AI MP games, the bugs would be much less a hindrance to developing views on the game. As it is, I find myself struggling to understand their effects in an SP game with any confidence. I am finding the game a bit easier in present form, even when refusing to enter into any GPT deals -- later game research takes longer, in absolute terms, but a late game lead is still a commanding position. As just one example of an unexplained tangible result from gameplay changes, are the AIs performing less effectively in the early game? If yes, is this due to corruption issues, or due to the delays in map and contact trading, or due to the changes to Republic, or due to a de-emphasis on Literature, or something else (or a combination)? I don't know -- more importantly, I don't think anyone else can know with any certainty, either. Which means I cannot exlcude (nor do I believe can others) that the buggy aspects of the current game have a material effect on AI performance, even when specific AI civs in any given game have no contact with the human player.
Catt 
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nbarclay
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Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
Who would be interested in playing an Agr. game? I can post an interesting one tonight. The purpose would be to test a different version of the Chasqui Scout: 0/0/1, 20 Shields, All Terrain As Roads, replaces Scout (available from the start). Sound fun? |
To restate and maybe expand a little on why I don't want to play the Seafaring game now, most of our AU games are on Continents maps with relatively "normal" land characteristics. Games with an emphasis on naval operations (especially ones designed up front to be that way) are relatively rare, and I hate to see one of the few AU games played under such conditions "spoiled" by corrupted rules. Further, if there's one kind of game that the FP bug seems especially likely to ruin, it's a heavily naval-oriented game, because getting a second core going on another land mass is so important on 'pelago maps.
That said, I would be very interested in a comparison game under the current rules. I think a designation along the lines of "AU Intersession Seminar 1" would be appropriate, indicating that the game is affiliated with Apolyton University but not a regular course. Those of us who want to can play it, and those who don't want to are free to ignore it. As long as the game doesn't "use up" one of our ideas for regular AU games, those who skip the game shoudn't feel like they've missing something.
The Chasqui Scout game could be used for that purpose if the people who have already started it have the information needed to post appropriate DARs/AARs. But if it is, I would like to see an alternative version posted using the regular Chasqui Scout unit instead of the modified version. First, I for one am more interested in seeing if I can make the standard version of the unit work for me than I am in trying to come up with a replacement right off the bat. And second, comparing a set of games using the standard version with a set using the modified version could provide a useful additional data point.
Nathan
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Dominae
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Here you go.
Of course, you'll want to post your comments in the other thread.
Dominae
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donZappo
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quote:
Originally posted by Nuclear Master
Even with the current news I rather we do not have a course under the current situation. I changed my mind after seeing Dominae's game. It's WAY to buggy. |
That's a good point. His civilization wasn't too large and it was still getting reemed by corruption. I don't know if a mod could even be created to try to avoid running into massive corruption or GPT problems. I would appreciate it if the AU did something official, though. Maybe a series of ancient era comparison games to go along with a number of the AU threads out there right now? From the sounds of it there are going to be some big changes to some aspects of the game, but hopefully some of the things the AU would learn from comparisons would carry over to the post-patch gaming environment. I believe Dominae presented one such comparison game. That's a good example of what I have in mind when I think of short, ancient era games.
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Dominae
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* Dominae grumbles something about how much testing they did on the "fixed" Corruption before releasing C3C.
Thanks for the news clipping, Catt (how come Firaxis does not post stuff like that here!?).
I now agree that starting an AU course would be counter-productive at this point. It would have made sense a couple of weeks ago (when I posted this poll), but by now everyone is surely aware how annoying Corruption is, not to mention the gpt bug; there's no need to communally go through the motions to prove it to ourselves what we already learned individually.
Dominae
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Dominae
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5CC is still playable (and OCC too, although the gpt bug is more annoying then).
Dominae
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ducki
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quote:
I don't know if a mod could even be created to try to avoid running into massive corruption |
Is it possible in the editor to finagle the OCN?
Could we just add 50% or even 100%?
Would that even have any affect?
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Dominae
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Agricultural is still quite strong in a 5CC game. Just because you're not building more than 5 Settlers does not mean pop is less useful (or half-price Aqueducts).
Dominae
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donZappo
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If a new AU game is created would there be a temporary AU mod as well? Since this is my first time participating in the creation of an AU mod I don't know how its release relates to the release of courses. Some of the AU threads have reached a point of having workable changes so I can see the possibility of a temporary mod coming out. What's the precedent from the AU?
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Dominae
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Nuclear Master, I think we should make a Conquests AU course (bugs and all). That's the whole reason to restrict ourselves to 5CC.
I would like to have this course up and running in the next week or so...because I want to play! The AU mod is not likely to be ready before the holidays, so let's just go ahead a play a stock rules course.
Dominae
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by nbarclay
Whoever designs it, the question of exact parameters needs addressed. What civ, map size and other parameters do you want? Also, do you want a relatively average starting position, or a "best 5CC starting position on the map" (starting from a randomly generated map) starting position?
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Map size should be Standard; any smaller and 5CC gets much easier, any bigger and some players' computers cannot cope.
Everything else is up to the map maker. The starting position should be "strategically" interesting, yet as random as possible. Unlike the OCC scenario I designed, I do not think the map and starting location should be tailored for 5CC.
quote:
As for the civs, does the new C3C civs plus one of the civs that's changed for C3C sound good, or would a more typical mix be better? |
You mean opponents or playable civs? I much prefer everyone use the same civ, as IMO it makes the DARs much more interesting to read. I was thinking we could try Korea, in order to test out bombardment (and lethal ground bombardment). As for opponents, it makes no difference to me.
Dominae
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30-11-2003 10:45
Attachment: 
and that may change some people's minds:
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