08-12-2003 23:57									#31
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oh yes, I forgot to mention the same thing.

The Iroaquois returned a treasure to their capitol!! WTF!

They were fairly far ahead in tech- I'm still not sure how they got all that tech. So maybe they were able to build tobacco plantations.

Myself I got pretty far ahead in tech even as the Aztecs with only 6 cities. But I researched military techs. I went all the way up to chivalry- only to realize I don't have horses . But I also researched the pikeman tech.

I did this in case someone attacked. I was weaker than most other nations. I just kept building the quico (can't spell that) bowmen (attack of 3) and then medieval infantry and pikemen. In the end I had an average military compared to the Iroquois and Dutch. I'm sure the spanish had a much larger military than me though.

I should also mention that as the native americans I pretty much gave everyone everything they wanted. The only civ I went to war with was the Mayans- taking 2 of their cities and destroying one other. Actually I went to war with them twice. In the beginning I saw a worker I couldn't resist snatching

	09-12-2003 00:05									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon I find that whatever difficulty you're comfortable playing at in the "epic" you should add 2 for scenarios - especially this one - to compensate for the AI being slightly awkward at these difficulties. Then bump it up a bit more as you learn the tricks of the scenario - I'm still working on my Sid Native American games. This is quite possible; if the Iroq raided a town that had treasure in it, they WOULD get the treasure unit and be able to return it. I really doubt they researched the techs (which is possible, though unlikely for obvious reasons) but "capture and kidnap" is an effective way to boost your income as an American civ in this one. (Side note for Multiplayer junkies: If you're playing a team game with one Euro and one American partner, the American civs can be quite the treasure mongers. Give them all the techs needed and watch as they march the treasures in across land!) (Or if you don't care so much for that, have the American player found cities in the best locations early, and then give them to you. )

how are things going on Sid level? Even on monarch It took some work building 2 wonders to get the single city cultural victory on turn 140. it would seem to me you'd have to sacrifice shitloads of workers if you couldn't build any wonders.

Though I think you could get away with building just one wonder. I may have got a cultural victory before turn 150. I only finished building my second wonder on turn 138 I believe.

	09-12-2003 02:32									#33
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I prefer the area around Brazil. You can found seven cities to use one gold resource. In my last SP game I played as Portugal and had Brazil and Africa. I had founded just over 30 gold mines, that means I was cranking out quite a bit of treasure.

Unfortunately I didn't have enough troops to bring it all back and my cities had no defensive units and 10-12 treasure units each.

Then I gifted all my cities to England and my Treasures were teleported to my capital.

	09-12-2003 02:38									#34
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ultimate cheese . I would never do that.

	09-12-2003 02:54									#35
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I got bored. I had all that treasure and it was gonna take forever to haul it all back, plus I wanted to see if it would work.

It did.

Moral: if your playing AoD in your pbem do NOT accept cities another player is giving you...............

	09-12-2003 03:32									#36
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quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb Moral: if your playing AoD in your pbem do NOT accept cities another player is giving you...............

Thanks for the warning!

	09-12-2003 03:42									#37
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Ghengis- that used to be possible in North Africa. I remember one beta game I *did* win on Sid because I took Portugal to North Africa, plunked down 12 gold cities, then abandoned my capital to walk the treasures into my new North African one.

North Africa got modified after that, but they never did fix the palace jump. "Stacking" a single resource is definitely cheesy, but it works quite well.

As for Sid-Native America, the problem is thus:

Without war, you can't hope to get a cultural before another Native civ or Europe does its thing.

With war, you have a nightmare time just trying to survive, and can't really build wonders - and sooner or later your native opponent will sign the Europeans onboard. Trying to go to war with the Europeans yourself is a deathwish, and they eventually wise up to helping you - and just getting them involved is playing Russian Roulette.

Even using the "Aztec blockade" as the Mayans, I can't manage it.

(Aztec Bloackade: tactic the Mayans use with their javelin throwers - put a few on the mountain and jungle bottleneck, which is two tiles wide, get your workers to slap down some appropriate groundworks, and then declare war on the Aztecs - they'll keep slamming units (future slaves) into your bulwark over and over and over - although you DO have to start counterattacking once the Bowmen arrive.)

That just doesn't work on the top difficulty though - the Aztecs expand fast enough to overrun that bottleneck, and the Europeans are a shotgun aimed at your head, just waiting.

If anyone HAS ever managed a Sid-Maya (or any Sid-Native American win) I'd love to hear how you did it and see some screenies.

	10-12-2003 01:33									#38
	Got spare money?

While modding the scenario is probably getting a little off-topic, I wonder if each of the factories/mines/plantations were made a Small Wonder, thus ensuring you have to have access to multiple *different* resources to produce lots of treasure, might make for an interesting game.

	10-12-2003 04:22									#39
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That would make it very drawn out, possibly too hard to complete in the timetable- one gold mine (treasure every 3), one silver mine and gem mine (every 5) etc,etc. You'd still get treasures, yes, but lose even one or two shipments or be a little slow off the starting blocks, and you'd be in trouble.

The focus would definitely shift to warmongering, which I think is against the spirit of the scenario - at least on land.