27-11-2003 13:14									#31
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo We had friends went outside and found them. Except for those who didn't.

But they had enemies outside who would find them, so it all worked out in the end.

	27-11-2003 14:05									#32
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I wouldn't want any child growing up under Cold War conditions.

	27-11-2003 14:14									#33
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I was born in '59, so I grew up during the '60s and turned 18 in '77. The biggest difference, I think between my generation and latter kids was the freedom and lack of fear.

When I was growing up, Winnipeg had about 500,000 people, so it wasn't exactly a small town. When I was 5 or 6 years old, I remember walking to a park, about 4 blocks from where I lived with my 2 best friends (the same age as me) without adults. I remember a couple of years later riding our bikes much further than that and by the time we were about 9 or 10, taking public transit across town to see movies - all without adults.

When we rode our bikes, we would leave them, unlocked outside stores and they would be there when we came out !

I don't remember needing a house key until I was about 12 or 13 - we never locked the house unless we were going out of town overnight.

I knew all my neighbors names for over a block in each direction.

I wonder if anyone under thirty living in a similar sized city can say the same.

	27-11-2003 14:26									#34
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I used to walk to grade school a mile and a half every day. I wonder how many elementary age kids do that nowdays.

	27-11-2003 14:27									#35
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I grew up playing around farm machinery and disused quarries. In fact, two friends from my childhood died that way before they were 8 years old- both drowned.

Things may be different, but not necessarily worse.

	27-11-2003 16:01									#36
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When we were liitle we used to play in the foundations of unfinshed housing (tho kids today probably still do that).

	27-11-2003 16:32									#37
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ALl those sounds familiar, and I was raised in 80's. And kids today, in here, they do the same stuff as the first post said. All of them, and most of them do.

Only difference I see is computers and game consoles, but that's been like from maybe mid 90s to this day for smaller kids.

	27-11-2003 17:47									#38
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My parents made me see a child psychologist because I was too well behaved.

I didn't like going out and playing with the other kids, and I had a fixation about keeping clean. (I have vivid memories of driving my folks mad when we were out somewhere by needing to go to the toilet but refusing to use toilets which were not up to my high hygene standards. We would walk around for hours trying to find a clean toilet.)

I would just sit inside all day by myself and read books. They were worried that I was mentally retarded (although why someone mentally retarded would read books is beyond me). I used to read these huge fact books with thousands of (useless) facts in them and try to memorize them all. (I was also really into poetry, but I try not to mention that in poilte society....)

I was a weird kid.

	27-11-2003 17:48									#39
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I was born in 1961. I don't think I had a better childhood than kids today. Different but not necessarily better.

I do think being between 14 and 30 today is worse than when I was that age. Teenagers often seem to be trying to make up for something they didn't do as small children whilst being pushed to become adults overnight.

As for the costs of higher education in the UK and the pittance wages paid to twentysomethings, I'm glad to be well past that stage (wages were no better 20 years ago but the things you actually needed didn't seem to cost as much - like somewhere to live).

	27-11-2003 18:11									#40
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and yet they alomst all seem to love capitalism, they seem willing victims of McDonaldisation. Passive.

	27-11-2003 18:18									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse and yet they alomst all seem to love capitalism, they seem willing victims of McDonaldisation. Passive.

U got it mate!

We be like Vultures, consuming tons of fast food to the tune of BILLIONS of $$$$$ of Medical Bills treating illness's such as High Cholestorol, High Blood Pressure, Obesity,Diabetes..alll this caused by us eating a few mice!!

(For those whom dont remember the 70's McMOUSE BURGER!! )

Peace

Grandpa "Looking-for-some-cheese" Troll

	27-11-2003 20:34									#42
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It seems the 'MacDonalds' generation is also providing problems for western military recruitment too. I read an article a few months back about how todays kids were getting many more injury's during training, thats if they passed the entrance tests
The console/tv/fast food kiddies find it harder to run than 10-15 years ago apparently.
Still i used to do mad stuff as a kid with my mates, like making pitch fork fireing catapults and bows and arrows etc.
I suppose todays youth would rather pack a 9mm, but i reckon my mates and myself had more clean harmless fun?
I've vowed that when i have kids, they will never eat a McDonalds while under my roof, and i'll force them outside(if not living in a city) for atleast an hour a day, whatever the weather hopefully they will do it under their own steam.........

Last edited by child of Thor on 27-11-2003 at 20:39

	27-11-2003 22:41									#43
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Where you grew up has as much to do with what type of childhood one had as to when they grew up.

I grew up in Panama, and no, we did not have all the same safety rules and whatnot, and I did have fun watching TV as I grew up, and I also had fun going to the beach each weekend, and so forth. And some of the kids I met sure as hell had very hard childhoods, though all children have some fun sometimes, in even the most horrid conditions.

	28-11-2003 00:25									#44
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I don't envy the childhood of my parents. My dad was born in 1935 and grew up during the German occupation and the civil war and lived a life full of deprivation. My mom is much younger (1948) but her folks were very poor and in fact she can remember the times where there was no running water or electricity at home.

Anyway, since I was born in 1979, I can't say I was atotally corrupt child. Back in the 80's the TV was not so commercial and we didn't have a computer. And I grew up riding a bike with no helmet (there still are no helmet laws here, AFAIK) and doing risky stunts with it. During the long summers of my childhood, I had a very natural life, which was, hands down, much better than the winters in the city.

	28-11-2003 00:38									#45
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My parents reached adulthood on the last years of the Junta. After that it was the metapoliteusi (the period of political normalizaton after the Junta) whith huge cultural influence by the left wing, radical thoughts/mindsets etc I guess it was an equivalant to a hardcore "flower children" revolution (not the sissy drugs type of the US). Perhaps the comparison doesn't describe it correctly at all coming to think of it.

One thing I envy from their era is the intense politicilization and involvement with society and politics, the socialization the fact that this generation brought down a dictatorship, the fight for democracy etc. Those were grim but heroic times for the one thing that matters: democracy. And there was intense interest on societal and political matters. But what I really envy is that people at that time had friends for life, were much more relaxed about relationships. The today's generation is more conservative than their parents which generally had a much, much greater passion for life.

	28-11-2003 00:41									#46
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quote: I was a weird kid

I can't say I share the same thing about cleanliness, but as for for keeping quiet and reading books, I've had similar experiences to you. Of course, everyone in my family is a bookworm, both my mom and dad, so no one really blinked an eye. Of course, I had some good friends who lived much differently, and who could never understand why I would read things like the encyclopedia.

	28-11-2003 01:21									#47
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Rogan Josh, Freud would have LOVED you.

I once tried to read the dictionary from start to finish, but I got as far as 'F' and decided my brain was as full as it was ever going to get. I was the only kid I knew who would concurrently read books on mycology, medieval fashion and Egyptian mummification practises.

	28-11-2003 04:07									#48
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor It seems the 'MacDonalds' generation is also providing problems for western military recruitment too. I read an article a few months back about how todays kids were getting many more injury's during training, thats if they passed the entrance tests

Strange you should say that - our infantry school is in trouble for failing around 50% of recruits on fitness grounds.

I coach children's sport - about half the boys have little or no motor skills. I'm talking about healthy 8 year olds who cannot throw or catch a ball

Its painful to watch.

	28-11-2003 04:49									#49
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I grew up thinking that bombed out ruins were normal. The area I lived in first in Coventry was Hillfields, near the Alvis plant, which was targetted several times during the war (along with the centre of Coventry of course).

You could see armchairs in the air in rooms left hanging in the sky, and half houses like a pop up book with all their history for the world to see. Great mounds of bricks and wood and glass everywhere. It wasn't until the early seventies that there was enough money to rebuild. We had free milk in the morning in infant school and junior school (stopped by one Margaret Thatcher when Education secretary), and I always walked to both of those schools, being proud of when I was allowed to do it alone. I looked forward to being a latchkey kid because it meant responsibility, not delinquence on the part of my grandparents. But I first saw wild birds when I went to grammar school- a robin and a blue ***- so I missed out on the country. But I loved staying indoors and reading anyway- I devoured all the Greek myths, the Norse myths and the Song of Roland, a monthly junior encyclopaedia and history books from the adult section of the library. You're never alone with a book....

	28-11-2003 07:00									#50
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quote: Uncle Sparky When I was growing up, Winnipeg had about 500,000 people, so it wasn't exactly a small town. ... I don't remember needing a house key until I was about 12 or 13 - we never locked the house unless we were going out of town overnight.

I was born and raised in Winnipeg, came to Oxford in 1970.

My best friend, who lived down the street, went to a different school than me. We would always meet up at his house after school. But since I got out earlier, I'd get there first. So I'd just walk in and wait for him, the door was never locked.

When I was back in '87, his dad had put bars on the basement windows. No more unlocked doors, that's for sure.

I was talking about this to another Winnipeger and she said "Yeah, we didn't lock our door either, but remember nobody had anything worth stealing in those days." Is that all there is to it? I suspect not: there's undoubtedly a lot more drugs around now and that's one of the main causes of crime.

Another thing is murders. I don't remember ever hearing about a murder. There must have been the occasional murder but they were pretty damn rare. Now Winnipeg has something like 30 murders a year (correct me if I'm wrong about this). It's not just Winnipeg. I walked past a television today and caught "In recent years Hollywood has been having 50 to 60 murders per year. In the 60's it was about 4."

quote: child of Thor Still i used to do mad stuff as a kid with my mates, like making pitch fork fireing catapults and bows and arrows etc.

Oh, you've reminded me. You can make a really neat firearm with a 'Blockbuster' (a type of firework, don't know if they make them any more) and an 8 or 10 inch length of pipe whose interior diameter will hold the firecracker. Craftsmanship requires that you mount it on a small length of 2x4 with some nails bent over to hold it in place. You put the Blockbuster in one end with the fuse exposed, a Cat's Eye (marble) in the other. Light the fuse and 'Bang', there goes the Cat's Eye.

So, we used to fire them from my backyard across the lane into the neighbours' garage door. (Hey, this was a long time ago. God knows what would happen to some kid who tried this now.) One time something went wrong. It didn't hit the garage door, just disappeared.

A couple of days later, a kid in my class - who lived across the street from the people whose garage door we were aiming at - said "Something really strange happened to our new front window. There's a little hole in the outer pane of glass. The insurance man said he'd never seen anything like it."

I've kept quiet about this for over 40 years.

	28-11-2003 08:30									#51
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Now Main Street's white washed windows, and vacant stores....

	28-11-2003 12:19									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Peter Triggs ...was never locked. When I was back in '87, his dad had put bars on the basement windows. No more unlocked doors, that's for sure. I was talking about this to another Winnipeger and she said "Yeah, we didn't lock our door either, but remember nobody had anything worth stealing in those days." Is that all there is to it? I suspect not: there's undoubtedly a lot more drugs around now and that's one of the main causes of crime. Another thing is murders. I don't remember ever hearing about a murder. There must have been the occasional murder but they were pretty damn rare. Now Winnipeg has something like 30 murders a year (correct me if I'm wrong about this). It's not just Winnipeg. I walked past a television today and caught "In recent years Hollywood has been having 50 to 60 murders per year. In the 60's it was about 4."

Sure, we had stuff to steal. But like I said, we knew everyone in the neighborhood... and old Mrs. McKinnon always knew who was where doing what with whome.

... and yes, there are a lot of murders in Winnipeg now. These are mostly gang related and about half of them occure in about an 8 square block area. If you're middle aged and not involved with hard drugs or prostitution, odds of you being murdered are very low.

quote: Originally posted by Horsie Now Main Street's white washed windows, and vacant stores....

Sounds like Winnipeg ! They have tried (and are still trying) various things to change that. An Urban Planner ran for mayor last election and came in 3rd. Our current mayor likes to build phallic symbols, though he will probably step down in the spring to run federally.

	29-11-2003 00:56									#53
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Growing up in the fifty was'nt bad. I was born in March of 44, started school in 1950. The only bad year that I had in school was the 8th grade. A kid decided he no longer like me and was able to turn part of the class against me. We had a class of 15 kids.
The nice things were that it cost a dime to buy a Coke, Pesi, etc. A dime to go to a movie. Model plane were $0.98. Shoes were $8.00. Gas was 0.19 to 0.23 cents a gallon.
Yes a kid could walk around without a parent and not be question by anyone.
In the area that I lived, everone knew who you were.
A dollar was worth a dollar.
A new car was around $3000.00 or less. A house was around $7000.00 to 10,000.00.
In Aug. of 65 I stated work at Mare Island Naval Shipyard and was making $2.72 per hour.

	29-11-2003 01:36									#54
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I was born in '70 and can relate to a LOT of things on that list.

It's not that "our" childhood or "their" childhood" was better. It's just that kids today are being turned into a bunch of feminized wussies whose lives are scheduled at every turn! Since when did just being a kid entail endless soccer practices and "arranged" meetings just to hang out with friends? What the hell happened?


Me at Ten years of age on any given summer night: Mom can I camp outside over at Dale's?

Mom: When will you be back?

Me: I don't know, later this week maybe.

Mom: Is it Ok with his Mom?

Me: (nods)

Mom: Get lost....

Nowadays, I drive thru some of the newer neighborhoods and don't even see kids playing outside in the summer. And what's with jungle gyms having nice, soft wood chips to cushion their fall??

What was wrong with good old-fashioned concrete with bits of glass and sharp rocks ?

	29-11-2003 03:22									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay "arranged" meetings just to hang out with friends?

oh yeah - it's minefield of kid diplomacy between the parents just getting 2 kids together.

	29-11-2003 04:51									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Strange you should say that - our infantry school is in trouble for failing around 50% of recruits on fitness grounds. I coach children's sport - about half the boys have little or no motor skills. I'm talking about healthy 8 year olds who cannot throw or catch a ball Its painful to watch.

It may have been in something like the New Scientist, or maybe a magazine article, it was using findings based on data from the UK's armed forces, but it also made reference to the same thing in America.

In a way i count myself lucky, I was born at the begining of the home computer revolution. So even though i took to computers quickly, i was also still intrested in exploring outdoors - making 'bases' in the woods, climbing and falling out of trees etc.
Lots of physical stuff that a lot of kids these days might look down there noses at?

I dont think its rocket science, but it seems to me if you grow up not physically active, and brain washed to eat fatty sugery foods, your going to suffer all through your life physically.

@Peter Triggs,

you gotta be careful what you say online else your 'kids experiment with fireworks' might be interpreted as lessons in bom* making And i agree that drugs seem to be the main factor in increasing crime rates - here in the UK as well as the US. Drugs are bad

	29-11-2003 05:40									#57
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I barely remember the 70's but I can say with absolute certainity that the 1980's were the best decade to grow up in. The government and lazy parents hadn't changed things to much from the 60's & 70's but we still had computers and video games.

I can remember when "going online" meant booting up my C64 and then tieing up my parents' only phone line so I could use the modem to dial into one of the local BBSes. Most of the time the BBS's sysop was one of my school buddies older brothers and the only people who visited the site was our group of friends.

We also had playgrounds which hadn't been sanitized by the safety nazis. In fact the park down the block had a play set which was about 20ft high and it included a sky walk which had a handrail on only one side which was 15 ft off of the ground. My friends and I used to jump off of the skywalk and make fun of the kids who landed wrong. One day a kid broke his leg and his parents sued the city. After that the playground got taken out and was replaced by a rubberized crap playset which never got more then three feet off of the ground.

Last edited by Oerdin on 29-11-2003 at 06:03

	29-11-2003 14:41									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Joseph Growing up in the fifty was'nt bad. I was born in March of 44, started school in 1950. The only bad year that I had in school was the 8th grade. A kid decided he no longer like me and was able to turn part of the class against me. We had a class of 15 kids. The nice things were that it cost a dime to buy a Coke, Pesi, etc. A dime to go to a movie. Model plane were $0.98. Shoes were $8.00. Gas was 0.19 to 0.23 cents a gallon. Yes a kid could walk around without a parent and not be question by anyone. In the area that I lived, everone knew who you were. A dollar was worth a dollar. A new car was around $3000.00 or less. A house was around $7000.00 to 10,000.00. In Aug. of 65 I stated work at Mare Island Naval Shipyard and was making $2.72 per hour.

Hehe... You sound like the lyrics of the opening song of All In The Family

	29-11-2003 15:17									#59
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quote: Originally posted by st_swithin I once tried to read the dictionary from start to finish, but I got as far as 'F' and decided my brain was as full as it was ever going to get.

That's nothing. I once tried to read the Bible from start to finish, but I got lost during the Exodus.

	29-11-2003 23:55									#60
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Did children of minority races have a better life before this frivuluous thing called civil rights became law??


Were mentally disabled children treated better 50 years ago than today??

Did children of dysfunctional, or abusive families 50 years ago have the same resources we have today, that can help them at a better chance in life??

Did teenagers who were realizing they were gay likely to be treated better 50 years ago, than today.


I guess all this mushy stuff depends on whose perspective of childhood you're looking at.