28-11-2003 07:30									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker hell yeah

This pic looks like a fake .
But even if it's genuine, such move is so demagogical I'm surprised anybody falls for it. PROBABLY, Bush is the kind of guy who lives for serving Turkey directly to soldiers

	28-11-2003 07:39									#32
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You've become a lot more cynical in your time away, Spiff. It doesn't suit you.

	28-11-2003 07:42									#33
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I've always been cynical. I dare you to find any post here where I trusted Bush (or any politician for that matter)

	28-11-2003 07:45									#34
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You were loveably cynical before. Now you seem bitterly cynical. Very (dare I say it?) French...

	28-11-2003 07:52									#35
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I'm only bitterly cynical because I drank too much today, and because I still need to re-adapt myself to Apolyton's sociality. Don't worry, it'll go away

	28-11-2003 08:12									#36
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Hey, you've got to admit, love him or hate him, he does have a flare for the dramatic. I was floored when I heard about it, in fact so was my whole family, dems and repubs alike.

	28-11-2003 08:49									#37
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Anyway, I have to say I really like what Bush did hear. Slipped out of his ranch to say hi to the guys in Iraq for a suprise visit to have some turkey with them. Great security too, because hardly anyone knew (not even Mrs. Bush).

This was a very good job, Mr. President .

	28-11-2003 08:51									#38
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This must be one of the few times a secret was actually kept in Washington.

	28-11-2003 09:47									#39
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Osweld, put yourselves in the shoes of an Iraqi beginning to doubt America's commitment due to all the negative campaigning by Democrats, the constant negative coverage by al Jazeera and other Arab media and the recent move to turn over power to the Iraqi government ASAP. The president's visit has got to be reassuring.

Of course, if you are on the other side, president Bush's visit has got to be very disturbing.

	28-11-2003 10:11									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Osweld, put yourselves in the shoes of an Iraqi beginning to doubt America's commitment due to all the negative campaigning by Democrats, the constant negative coverage by al Jazeera and other Arab media and the recent move to turn over power to the Iraqi government ASAP. The president's visit has got to be reassuring.

Not really reassuring unless Bush went to visit Iraqi officials and ministers aswell*. As it is he only met with the troops which isn't that meaningful as far as the Iraqi citizenry are concerned.

*Of course security reasons probably prohibited that, which in itself may disconcert the Iraqis.

	28-11-2003 10:13									#41
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quote: Not really reassuring unless Bush went to visit Iraqi officials and ministers aswell*.

He did meet with some members of the Iraqi Governing Council.

	28-11-2003 10:15									#42
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One of the few instances where the Bush crew get it right in foreign relations.

	28-11-2003 11:34									#43
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I thought it was a good move. It boosted my morale in an electric kind of way.

In the morning during my drive home home for Thanksgiving, they mentioned on the radio that Bush was going to be in Texas at his ranch and then a couple of weeks of fundraising. It didn't strike me too well, knowing that so many soldiers were in the field.

	28-11-2003 14:36									#44
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I thought that Bush wanted the Iraqis to 'bring it on'. Surely if he'd forgone secrecy he, and his security detail, could have contributed to this strategy

quote: Originally posted by Ned I hope the Iraqi's themselves appreciate what Bush has done.

What, flown into the main airport for a few hours where he hung out with American troops? Yeah, that's really going to make everyone in Iraq's day.

	28-11-2003 15:38									#45
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Case, members of the Iraqi governing council were present as well.

Bush is the first American president to have visited Iraq - ever. If an Iraqi is pinning any hopes at all on America, Bush's visit has to be inspiring.

	28-11-2003 16:38									#46
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It was a very brave move, if you consider this:

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Entire Bush adminstration dies in plane crash.

(Opinion by a soldier who will soon serve in Iraq, posted in the "News you want to hear the most" thread)

And this:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=102575

Apart from the flying, it was brave of him to enter the same room as hundreds of armed men, whom he has sent to a god-forgotten place, separated from their families, extended their service duration and made cuts in their benefits.

	28-11-2003 18:16									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Osweld, put yourselves in the shoes of an Iraqi beginning to doubt America's commitment due to all the negative campaigning by Democrats, the constant negative coverage by al Jazeera and other Arab media and the recent move to turn over power to the Iraqi government ASAP. The president's visit has got to be reassuring.

How so?

How is Bush flying to iraq to stuff his face with turkey reassuring to someone who's living in a war zone, with poverty, and quite posibly hungry and homeless. I hope you do realise that they don't celebrate Thanksgiving in Iraq. Maybe if bush went there to celebrate an Iraqi festival, it could have some meaning. But as it is, it's just the foreign invaders having a feast.

	28-11-2003 18:58									#48
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc This must be one of the few times a secret was actually kept in Washington.

Just goes to show, they can keep a secret when they want to!

	28-11-2003 19:04									#49
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat Just goes to show, they can keep a secret when they want to!

Now I understand that was the reason all along !
They just wanted to make their secrets public in the past !

	28-11-2003 19:08									#50
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You do realize, Spiffor that adminstrations sometimes will purposely leak things for political gain?

	28-11-2003 19:15									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui You do realize, Spiffor that adminstrations sometimes will purposely leak things for political gain?

Sometimes, sure.
But in many occurences, leaks happen because someone in the know (and there can be many of them) has blundered, or because one person purposefully leaks for his individual political gain.

I think Bush has done it right on this one. It sure reeks of demagogery, but the troops were really needing a morale booster. And it appears on TV Bush sacrificed a day with the family to be close to the soldiers, so it's successful communication.

	28-11-2003 19:18									#52
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quote: But in many occurences, leaks happen because someone in the know (and there can be many of them) has blundered, or because one person purposefully leaks for his individual political gain.

Not in this administration. It is one of the most tight lipped ones in recent memory.

	28-11-2003 20:51									#53
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Bush's visit dominated the news in Japan this evening. They even put up a picture of Bush lit from behind by an angelic light for a gratuitous amount of time.

	28-11-2003 21:01									#54
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Much as I don't like the guy...

I do have to say 'Respect'!

Now, if only things can be turned around in Iraq...

	28-11-2003 21:06									#55
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That may take some time, but at the very least I'm very happy that he didn't say we'll pull you out as soon as possible. This is going to take a while to get things going again, and its only going to make things worse if the US hastily pulls out.

	28-11-2003 21:43									#56
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i'm impressed with this. the only downside to this i can think of is that the rightist pundits like sean hannity will never shut up about it.

well, you know, the ones like mr hannity who giggle like little schoolgirls whenever bush is mentioned.

definitely gets my respect, though.

	28-11-2003 21:59									#57
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Hannity, Limbaugh, or O'reilly shouldn't shut up about it, you would never get one of those coward liberals to Iraq as President. I know it is tough for you lefties when the righties are right and flaunt it.

	28-11-2003 22:22									#58
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so i'm a lefty now because i don't like hannity? for cryin' out loud, the man has half of his show devoted to people calling in solely to praise him and tell him what a good job he's doing. do we really need that in a talk show? no. give me boortz any day, who's far less of a republican cheerleader.

	28-11-2003 22:23									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie It was a very brave move, if you consider this: (Opinion by a soldier who will soon serve in Iraq, posted in the "News you want to hear the most" thread) And this: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=102575 Apart from the flying, it was brave of him to enter the same room as hundreds of armed men, whom he has sent to a god-forgotten place, separated from their families, extended their service duration and made cuts in their benefits.

I think you read too much into his post. I'm in the same situation and I dont wish that on this adminstration or any for that matter. It does make a difference when someone like that appears. You may not like the president or the party but when you are over there it makes a difference. Will the feeling last? probably not. The main thing is that for that day when they were far away from home and probably not too impressed by much display by the army, the President of the United States came to visit them. You'll probably laugh but then again you have never been in that situation.

	28-11-2003 22:24									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Defiant Hannity, Limbaugh, or O'reilly shouldn't shut up about it, you would never get one of those coward liberals to Iraq as President. I know it is tough for you lefties when the righties are right and flaunt it.

Hillary is there today and tomorrow