29-11-2003 11:17									#31
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I am going to take the wrotten again in january

I just am not good at orals

I freeze up and can'et thinks

Jon Miller

	29-11-2003 11:18									#32
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Jon, where do you live?

	29-11-2003 11:19									#33
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in College PArk MDF
\
Jon Miller

	29-11-2003 11:19									#34
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Oerdin:
The Quran is not exactly the ramblings of a cultist. Rather, it is the ramblings of a cultist, that have been posthumeously sacralized and manipulated by a bunch of zeallots looking for political gain.

BTW, Muhammad was a medieval conquerer, and his horrors were on par with the times. The problems came from the false pretense to make his behaviour intemporal. IIUC, Muhammad considered that the only valid holy book was the Old Testament, and that he was made a prophet to have people actually follow the Law and not become polytheists (hence the strong hatred of Muslims for Polytheists)

	29-11-2003 11:20									#35
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Jon, you tool, you couldn't wait a few days?

	29-11-2003 11:23									#36
	Remove this text

Shji will be gone in a couple of days

I wil be arround all next wekk
JHion" Miler

	29-11-2003 11:24									#37
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quote: order Jews who refuse to convert into slavery

As much as I like to troll Speer, this wasn't the case. You might have the situation confused with an account (which may or may not have happened - it was recorded in only one source and was almost identical to a much older story, so I'd say probably not) where he enslaved the women and children (killed the men) of a Jewish tribe that renegged on its alliance during a siege.

	29-11-2003 11:29									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Oerdin: The Quran is not exactly the ramblings of a cultist. Rather, it is the ramblings of a cultist, that have been posthumeously sacralized and manipulated by a bunch of zeallots looking for political gain.

You're right. I can't argue there.

quote: BTW, Muhammad was a medieval conquerer, and his horrors were on par with the times.

Yes, but no one holds up Ghingus Khan as being the savior of humanity and the fountain from which God's word eminates, now do they? There are people which do attempt to do just that for this derranged psychopath.

quote: The problems came from the false pretense to make his behaviour intemporal. IIUC, Muhammad considered that the only valid holy book was the Old Testament, and that he was made a prophet to have people actually follow the Law and not become polytheists (hence the strong hatred of Muslims for Polytheists)

True. Did you know that a first Mohammed had all muslims pray facing Jerusalum? He tried to convince the Jews of the Hajiz that he was the Jewish Mesiah but the Jews rejected him because 1) he was not a man of learning 2) he was not Jewish (the Torah says the Mesiah will be a Jew), and 3) the Jewish leaders thought he was crazy. After he was rejected as a Jewish Mesiah Mohammed became very anti-Jew and his mania culminated in his killing all the male Jews in Medina and then selling the women and children off into slavery. Are those the actions of a just man? No, those are the actions of a power mad cultist.

	29-11-2003 11:35									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo As much as I like to troll Speer, this wasn't the case. You might have the situation confused with an account (which may or may not have happened - it was recorded in only one source and was almost identical to a much older story, so I'd say probably not) where he enslaved the women and children (killed the men) of a Jewish tribe that renegged on its alliance during a siege.

Read the whole acount of Mohammed's journey to Medina. Pay attention to how his additudes towards the Jews changes over time and how he orders people to stop praying towards Jersalum and to begin praying towards Mecca after the Jews refuse to join his cult. He then begins to incite his cult members into attacking Jews; even attacking Jews before atacking polytheists. Mostly this is because the Jews didn't accept his so he sought to destroy them

Only one of the Jewish Clans refused to support him in battle but Mohammed ordered all of the Jews killed or enslaved. This is the act of an absolute barbarian.

	29-11-2003 11:40									#40
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Actually, only the tribe that aided the Meccans in its siege of Medina (after declaring an alliance with the other Medinans) were killed/enslaved in the account, and I don't think it actually happened.

	29-11-2003 11:41									#41
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I drink a :toast: to this thread, as it is now toast.