12-12-2003 01:56									#31
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO It is quite possible that the communist in Iraq could end up with more than just a token role in government. The party is obviously pretty highly organized there.

They certainly have a role to play. Especially if the IGC and CPA rush too far too fast in the direction of privatization.

	12-12-2003 01:57									#32
	Re: Re: Re: Re: Thousands take to Iraqi streets to protest "terrorism" Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Since more Iraqis are being killed right now that Americans, that is actually a possibility. Just cuz Hussein isn't in power doesn't mean he still doesn't have many in the grip of terror.

Then why wasn't the protest in the south this big?

These people hate sadam more then the Americans but off course they would never walk in an US sponsered demonstration.

Even people who live under foreign occupation have a sense of national pride.

	12-12-2003 01:59									#33
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO It is quite possible that the communist in Iraq could end up with more than just a token role in government. The party is obviously pretty highly organized there.

Would be funny if they won the first free election

	12-12-2003 02:05									#34
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United States installs communist government in Iraq.

	12-12-2003 02:28									#35
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara United States installs communist government in Iraq.

IF they respect democracy, and dont allow terror, then it works for me. Doubt they could pull it off without a coalition with bourgeois forces though.

	12-12-2003 02:33									#36
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara United States installs communist government in Iraq.

Installs?

You know, even a communist can get elected in some countrys

quote: Would be funny if they won the first free election

No problem if the elections are free and fair.

	12-12-2003 03:51									#37
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Interestingly, the Ayatollahs can put 100,000 k people in the street at the drop of a hat..so 10,000 people is, well, OK but nothing special.

Interestingly some of the same people who ignored demonstrations of 100K aganist the war in some places point to a demonstration of 10K as proof of thier position...very interesting.

	12-12-2003 04:34									#38
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GePap, you got it backwards. Some of the same people who pointed with glee at the Shi'te demostrations are ignoring pro-democracy, anti-terrorist demonstrations.

As to the demonstrations, I find it interesting that the people of Iraq know that the Ba'athist party is a NAZI party.

	12-12-2003 04:40									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Ned GePap, you got it backwards. Some of the same people who pointed with glee at the Shi'te demostrations are ignoring pro-democracy, anti-terrorist demonstrations. As to the demonstrations, I find it interesting that the people of Iraq know that the Ba'athist party is a NAZI party.

The comparison is wrong- what matters is the SIZE of a demonstration, which is a proof either of the general feelings, or which parties have the power to put people on the street. A protest of 100k is ALWAYS more important than one of 10K, unless you start doind proportional accoutning of populations.

That the Shi'as can pull 100K puls in a day or less while this anti-terrorism one gets only up to 10K shows us who is organized, who is not.

	12-12-2003 04:45									#40
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quote: Thousands take to Iraqi streets to protest "terrorism"

quote: More than 200 protesters from the Iraqi National Congress and other political parties, women's groups and sheikhs in traditional dress gathered near the National Theatre in Baghdad and marched to a central Baghdad hotel.

Is it just me...

	12-12-2003 04:51									#41
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Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

	12-12-2003 04:54									#42
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Interestingly, the Ayatollahs can put 100,000 k people in the street at the drop of a hat..so 10,000 people is, well, OK but nothing special. Interestingly some of the same people who ignored demonstrations of 100K aganist the war in some places point to a demonstration of 10K as proof of thier position...very interesting.

The demonstrations that you are refering to took place by people who were in generally unaffected countries. The demonstration in Iraq was by people who are directly affected by what is happening. That is why some people use it as a justification for a position. 100,000 in Germany? I mean...who really cares? 10,000 in Iraq means something.

	12-12-2003 04:58									#43
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Last edited by chegitz guevara on 12-12-2003 at 05:06

	12-12-2003 05:03									#44
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First of all, there were 200K plus in the UK, an "affected country", yet those demostrations were ignored-so i don't buy the first bit.

Second, yes, 10K in Iraq means something-20 people in Iraq mean something-1 person means something. Saying it "means something" is, well, a meaningless statement.

The question is, does a protest by 10K MAX show any deep level of pol;itical support towards what is being portested about by a significant portion of the population? Not in a city of 5 million. So its nice to see these 10K, but this is in no way a significant event, or aportent of anything, nor a show of any group's political muscle.

	12-12-2003 05:31									#45
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quote: Originally posted by GePap First of all, there were 200K plus in the UK, an "affected country", yet those demostrations were ignored-so i don't buy the first bit.

Yes...I hear the street fighting and the bombings were just terrible.

quote: Second, yes, 10K in Iraq means something-20 people in Iraq mean something-1 person means something. Saying it "means something" is, well, a meaningless statement.

Nice twist, but the fact remains. 10,000 people took to the streets, risking their lives, to support taking their country back from terrorist. That seems pretty strong to me in a city of any size.

quote: The question is, does a protest by 10K MAX show any deep level of pol;itical support towards what is being portested about by a significant portion of the population? Not in a city of 5 million. So its nice to see these 10K, but this is in no way a significant event, or aportent of anything, nor a show of any group's political muscle.

How can you say this is not a significant event? Are you really that blind to what is happening in that country? I can't believe that naive position from you. Surely you are just trolling.

The group that is showing its political strength is the people...remember them?

	12-12-2003 20:19									#46
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Interestingly, the Ayatollahs can put 100,000 k people in the street at the drop of a hat..so 10,000 people is, well, OK but nothing special.

The demos in favor of the ayatollahs were NOT pro-terrorism, pro-Baathist, or pro-insurgency, so im not sure i see the point of the contrast.

Also the demos for the ayatollahs in the shrine cities had elements of a religious outpouring and were not strictly political, so im not sure we're comparing apples and apples.

	12-12-2003 20:24									#47
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Interestingly some of the same people who ignored demonstrations of 100K aganist the war in some places point to a demonstration of 10K as proof of thier position...very interesting.

who ignored them? Was their widespread opposition to the war in the UK -well yes. Was a large portion of that intensely motivated and well organized - yes. So what? Thats a datum towards an analysis of UK politics, not toward the question of the current political situation in Iraq.

A rally by IRAQIS, in IRAQ, for a political purpose (not religious) by people who for years couldnt whisper against the regime without taking their lives in their hands, who are STILL threatened with death for supporting the coalition, is important. Not as important as it would have been if 100,000 Iraqis had shown up, instead of 5-10,000, but still important.

Particularly interesting to me was that 200 reportedly protested in Ramadi, deep in the "Sunni triangle" where some think the coalition has zero support.

	12-12-2003 20:30									#48
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quote: Originally posted by GePap The question is, does a protest by 10K MAX show any deep level of pol;itical support towards what is being portested about by a significant portion of the population? Not in a city of 5 million. So its nice to see these 10K, but this is in no way a significant event, or aportent of anything, nor a show of any group's political muscle.

this is not a nation where people are used to political protests. Theyve just emerged from decades of totalitarian dictatorship - and there are still active attempts to kill people who support the coalition.

Is this a great portent of anything - no not by itself, and I dont think i or anyone else said it was. Its one datum, to be taken in context of other data, INCLUDING poll results, reports from coalition soldiers of good relations with many Iraqis, reports from coalition officials of growing cooperation from Iraqis even in the Sunni triangle, reports from bloggers, reports from mainstream media, etc.

	12-12-2003 20:34									#49
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker quote: Thousands take to Iraqi streets to protest "terrorism" quote: More than 200 protesters from the Iraqi National Congress and other political parties, women's groups and sheikhs in traditional dress gathered near the National Theatre in Baghdad and marched to a central Baghdad hotel. Is it just me...

Its AFP.

	12-12-2003 21:00									#50
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quote: Originally posted by JCG Too bad that the terrorists probably won't care though..they never do.

Tomorrow's headline:

"Thousands of terrorists take to the Iraqi streets to protest Protestors."

	12-12-2003 22:46									#51
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Centcom says the following

"Although the CPA estimated participation at 15,000 to 20,000 people, Iraqi police and media sources cited numbers ranging from 100,000 to 1 million. The demonstrations, organized by the Iraqi Reconstruction and Development Council, took place in every major Iraqi city except Tikrit and Mosul, officials said.

In Baghdad, the scene of the largest demonstration, an estimated 5,000 Iraqis carried banners and chanted slogans opposing violence by Saddam Hussein loyalists and other insurgents. A CPA spokesman said the demonstration was initially planned to take place over a one-mile area, but that it extended an additional half-mile as the crowd swelled beyond expectations."

Of course i dont believe the 100k plus figure, given less then 10k in Baghdad - and from the pics it sure didnt look like many more. I AM CURIOUS about the demonstrations elsewhere, though.