13-12-2003 03:18									#31
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MEAT!



MEAT!!!

	13-12-2003 03:22									#32
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I think I'm serious about this...has anyone ever proposed this as a viable alternative?

Would religionists object to it being "love?" Since they really believe God is love, I can't see why the wouldn't. I'd think any objection would reveal that their real agenda is in wanting to force people to say "God."

Wouldn't be great to reinforce the primacy of love in our country?

Last edited by Boris Godunov on 13-12-2003 at 05:11

	13-12-2003 03:22									#33
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I like "one nation under Zeus." That should win us some friends over in Greece, the Western world's *first* democracy.

Gatekeeper

	13-12-2003 03:27									#34
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The energy that has been wasted on this issue could probably give free electricity to a mid-size town for a year or two. Do you americans never come up with any important issues to talk about?

	13-12-2003 03:27									#35
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quote: has anyone ever proposed this as a viable alternative?

Naw, it'd be too gay

*runs*

	13-12-2003 03:29									#36
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That's no different then what we already say Boris. Why then would we need to change the pledge?

	13-12-2003 03:31									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi That's no different then what we already say Boris. Why then would we need to change the pledge?

Aetheist accept the existance of the emotion of love, not God. Thus they are NOT the same thing- beside,s there are religious traditions in which love and God are not the same, or there can be.

	13-12-2003 03:38									#38
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The irony of it all is that it seems way, way too few people bother to care when actual liberty is limited, but hey, you better not touch our precious symbols like pledges, anthems, flags and what have we... it would be amusing if it wasn't so damn sad.

And that's not just an American thing, I might add.

	13-12-2003 03:41									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: has anyone ever proposed this as a viable alternative? Naw, it'd be too gay *runs*

I heard that!

	13-12-2003 03:42									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi That's no different then what we already say Boris. Why then would we need to change the pledge?

What GePap said. It would accomodate everyone in the Pledge, not just religionists.

But thank you for providing my point--since religious people view God as love, saying "Love" would be no different for them. Ex-cellent.

	13-12-2003 03:44									#41
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quote: I heard that!

You have Polydar... anything about homosexuals/gay and you are on it like butter on toast... or something .

	13-12-2003 03:55									#42
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quote: When did Hannity ever say the majority of STUDENTS want 'under God' in the pledge?

When debating Michael Newdow. And at other times, a minority is denying the majority it's right to recite the pledge, according to Hannity.

	13-12-2003 04:10									#43
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quote: a minority is denying the majority it's right to recite the pledge, according to Hannity.

Which doesn't say a majority of students. I interpreted those words to mean the parents of the kids (who make up the majority) who want the kids to recite the pledge. That the majority that is being denied (since kids are full legal persons they are represented by their parents).

	13-12-2003 04:37									#44
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A minority of students, not parents

	13-12-2003 04:37									#45
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Well the original post nor anything else in this thread said that.

	13-12-2003 04:40									#46
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Imran, parents aren't reciting the pledge. This is what I just said:

quote: a minority is denying the majority it's right to recite the pledge, according to Hannity.

I don't know how you interpreted that to mean parents and not the students actually reciting the pledge.

	13-12-2003 04:43									#47
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And from my opening post"

quote: But why does Hannity claim we can't let the minority exclude "under God" from the pledge because the majority of children want to recite those words but now the majority of these 7 year olds must be over-ruled by the minority?

	13-12-2003 04:55									#48
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quote: I don't know how you interpreted that to mean parents and not the students actually reciting the pledge.

The majority's right to 'recite the pledge' is talking about the parents wanting their kids to recite the pledge. Always. It never refers to the kids wanting to recite the pledge. They don't even know what it means.

quote: And from my opening post"

That statement seemed like mere editorialization.

	13-12-2003 05:04									#49
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quote: Originally posted by GePap one nation under Zeus?

One nation, under the Constitution...

	13-12-2003 05:49									#50
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Imran

quote: The majority's right to 'recite the pledge' is talking about the parents wanting their kids to recite the pledge.

No, the majority of students, not parents. When Hannity says a minority are denying the majority it's right to recite the pledge, he's talking about the people who are actually reciting the pledge - the students.

quote: They don't even know what it means.

Depends on the ages and intelligence of the students, but so what? Your right to speak or recite a word doesn't depend on knowing what the word means.

quote: That statement seemed like mere editorialization.

You said I never mentioned that it was the students Hannity was referring to and I quoted myself twice to prove you wrong.
Now you want to change the debate to whether or not I was editorialising?

I wasn't...

	13-12-2003 07:01									#51
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quote: Your right to speak or recite a word doesn't depend on knowing what the word means.

Well if you don't know what you are saying what does it matter if it is protected. You aren't going to really care.

quote: You said I never mentioned that it was the students Hannity was referring to and I quoted myself twice to prove you wrong.

No, I said there was no proof in this thread that Hannity was refering to the majority refering to the students in both cases... my original post after all said:

When did Hannity ever say...

	13-12-2003 13:17									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I heard that! You have Polydar... anything about homosexuals/gay and you are on it like butter on toast... or something .

No, it's just that someone has to take the responsibility to keep tabs on you -- you've become known as quite the trouble-maker here on Apolyton.

	14-12-2003 00:09									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov One nation, under the Constitution...

Nah, far too civic and sensible a matter! Under Lord Zargon IV of Remulax!

	14-12-2003 03:59									#54
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quote: Well if you don't know what you are saying what does it matter if it is protected. You aren't going to really care.

And if you do understand then reciting a pledge that conflicts with your beliefs violates the right of conscience.

quote: No, I said there was no proof in this thread that Hannity was refering to the majority refering to the students in both cases... my original post after all said: When did Hannity ever say...

Ah, sorry, I can only report what I've heard Hannity say on a number of occasions.

	14-12-2003 19:44									#55
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My version of the pledge:
I pledge no allegiance to the flag of the United States of America nor to the plutocracy for which it stands, one nations, ignoring its constitution, quite divided, with liberty and justice for the rich.

	14-12-2003 21:06									#56
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Imran... it's spelled... HYPOCRISY!

but I agree with most posters here... there are better examples of Hannity hypocrisy. C'mon Berz, why listen to the guy if you think he's a hypocrit?