13-12-2003 03:32									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner I'm not a scientist, but I remember reading something on the subject that speculates that the flipping doesn't cause the magnetic field to disappear, just the polarity switching (as mentioend before). Actually, it is this magnetic field that protects the earth from space debris, cosmic rays and the such. You are right on about that Ned. I don't believe the earth would be unprotected by a magnetic field polarity flip.

A flip that happens almost overnight would at most disrupt the birds and potentially wipe out all out sattelites, electronics and electrical systems on Earth. But if it is prolonged by weeks and months or even years, we are in for a world of hurt.

	13-12-2003 04:01									#32
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There is no evidence from the fossil record of these reversals causing extinctions or massive loss of life, so I doubt the field disappears during a reversal.

	13-12-2003 04:22									#33
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Yeah we've already survived this soert of things many times over.

	13-12-2003 04:29									#34
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Ha I'm reading a sci-fi book- Hominids, that mentions the flip and that the last time it happened was right around the time humans "awoke", and stopped being smart apes. It speculated that it was some 40,000 years ago.

Maybe we'll go back to sleep?

	13-12-2003 06:11									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker There is no evidence from the fossil record of these reversals causing extinctions or massive loss of life, so I doubt the field disappears during a reversal.

Good sign.

But, there may have been at least one "slow" reversal. I wonder what happend then?

	13-12-2003 06:25									#36
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It's not "correlated" with the end of the mini ice age. They only started recording it then.

	13-12-2003 06:34									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Good sign. But, there may have been at least one "slow" reversal. I wonder what happend then?

I don't think there's ever been a "slow" reverse. From what I understand, it's an instantaneous switch.

I think we are in more danger from projectiles hitting the earth (comets, astreroids, etc)

	13-12-2003 06:36									#38
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quote: Originally posted by November Adam Maybe we'll go back to sleep?

I hope so, we're getting a bit restless.



Is that a good book, by the way? I've been looking at it for a while, now.

	13-12-2003 06:58									#39
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I just saw a program on this today, and though I would add my two cents

1: The magnetic field does not "disappear" during a flip, it only becomes very weak (so radiation would still get in).

2: The magnetic field dies when the inner core of the earth becomes frozen. The Earth's core only decreases by 100C every billion years, so we are far far far away from it disappearing, so it is almost definately a flip in progress

3: Over the past 150 years, the "hole" in the South Atlantic has been growing bigger, increasing the possibility of a flip

4: The weakened field caused by the flip lasts for hundreds of years, increasing radiation getting through the weakend magnetic flip. Cancer rates will rise.

5: There is no "magnetic pole" in this time. In as much as a day the pole can move 60 degrees due to the flipping.

6: Samples of lava taken from Oregon prove this. When rock and clay cools, it is magnetised by the magnetic field. When the lava was removed, the last pieces of lava to be cooled had an east correlation as opposed to the predicted lava cooled a day earlier which had a sout south west correlation.

	13-12-2003 07:22									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Ned ... Does anyone here have a degree in astrophysics?

Why, did you lose yours?

Well you can't borrow mine!

	13-12-2003 07:23									#41
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Evil communist democrats

	13-12-2003 07:53									#42
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quote: Originally posted by November Adam Ha I'm reading a sci-fi book- Hominids, that mentions the flip and that the last time it happened was right around the time humans "awoke", and stopped being smart apes. It speculated that it was some 40,000 years ago. Maybe we'll go back to sleep?

or maybe we would become superduper hominids!

	13-12-2003 07:55									#43
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btw, i htink the last magnetic field reversal was like 800,000 years ago, and they happen sparatically, but rarely more often than once every several million years. According to the article, scientists conservatively estimate that there have been about 200 polarity switches of the field in earths history... of 4 billion years.

I think the greater issue raised by the article tho is not the switching of the field, which isnt much to swaet, but the diminishment of the field by 10% over the last 150 some odd years. As far as the correltation with the last mini ice age, i doubt theres much, as what you refer to as the last mini-ice age wasnt much of a mini ice age as it was merely a prolonged streak of cold weather. during the middle ages tho there was an actual mini ice age

	13-12-2003 08:09									#44
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Okay everyone...get your pieces of iron out and start banging them together. We need to make more magnets, more I tell you! Keep banging! If we don't build the magnetic strength on this planet we are all doomed!

	13-12-2003 08:14									#45
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My brother-in-law use to work for an industrial magnet company down in L.A., I'll ask him 'bout pole flipping and get back to you... I seem to remember the "all of a sudden" issue being a factor, though "all of a sudden" in the grand scheme of things could be a long time.

	13-12-2003 08:23									#46
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I wonder if all the new magnet schools we have been creating is helping at all.

Oh, and I'll stop spraying my aerosol in the air to keep that hole above the south pole in check. I don't want those cute little penguins to get sunburned.

What's black and white and read all over? see paragraph above for clue

	13-12-2003 08:26									#47
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Edit: Even better:

A communist democrat (But I repeat myself)

	13-12-2003 08:29									#48
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'm not afraid, if I can reach it, I can punch it.

	13-12-2003 11:19									#49
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Pekka I'm not afraid, if I can reach it, I can punch it.

[Senseless Troll] Yet Karelia is still ours [/Troll]

	13-12-2003 12:29									#50
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What I'm more curious about is how animals that rely on magnetism as a navigational aid deal with the situation when the magnetic poles begin to wander during a flip. They've mapped many of the reversals by analysing the magnetism of the sea floor spreading out from the Atlantic Rift zone and they seem to occur every ~700,000 years. Unfortunately they can't tell how fast flips occur...

	13-12-2003 12:56									#51
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this will screw up all the maps with the N on top.

	13-12-2003 13:00									#52
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birds will figure it out. They have before, no reason they wouldn't figure it out this time.

oh how easily humans underestimate the birds.

I love birds, they are cool.

	13-12-2003 13:04									#53
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think about it this way. if sun cancer rates rise, this could be good for us nerds who spend all days indoors at a computer.

All the cool kids will die off of skin cancer

	13-12-2003 15:51									#54
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Then the chicks will be ours!!!!!!!!

	13-12-2003 15:57									#55
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As a former student of astronomy, I think the only thing you can say with certainty about cosmic scale events is that you can't be certain of anything.

Dissident:

Birds are much smarter than people. They'll be fine.

	13-12-2003 15:58									#56
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Hmmm,wow,nerd-chicks

	13-12-2003 16:05									#57
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quote: "crack" isn't as funny as having a dorm building named "babcock" on a street named "bever".

	13-12-2003 18:52									#58
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@ Drake. Awesome. How do I apply?

	13-12-2003 21:12									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Frozzy I just saw a program on this today, and though I would add my two cents

Heh. If it was on the Discovery channel then I saw the same programme. But I can claim to have some more knowledge from a few Honours level Physics papers in Geomagnetism.

This change is NEVER instantaneous, unless you count a few hundred - thousand years as immediate. At the current rate we have several tens of thousands of years before there is any real risk of extra cosmic radiation at ground level. And we are 'overdue' by several hundred thousand years (the average time between reversals has been 200,000 years, we have gone 700,000 since the last one) for a reversal in the same way Wellington is 'overdue' for a magnitude 8.0 earthquake.

* MrWhereItsAt wishes he knew what actually gave rise to the 'secular' variations in magnetic fielde strength...

	13-12-2003 23:11									#60
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So is it this decrease in magfield strength that explains the rise in cancer rates, or is that smog really that bad?