16-12-2003 03:45									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos For all of you hating Strom Thurmond, I hope you hate everyone alive from 1900 to 1950, as most of them had his opinion. You just hate him because he didn't die with the rest. Next time you run into a WWII vet, make sure you spit in his face because he most likely supported Segregation (along with FDR). -Pat

Most of those veterans didn;t run for president with segregation as their sole issue.

But I don't hate Thurmond as other do cause he ended his life trying to make ammends for his views.

And what is the endless thing with FDR?

	16-12-2003 03:46									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos For all of you hating Strom Thurmond, I hope you hate everyone alive from 1900 to 1950, as most of them had his opinion. You just hate him because he didn't die with the rest. Next time you run into a WWII vet, make sure you spit in his face because he most likely supported Segregation (along with FDR). -Pat

hey my dad was a ww2 vet and he didnt like segregation. And FDR, IIUC was fine with integration in the North. He just didnt expend the political capital to push it on the South. A far cry from calling him the equivalent of Thurmond.

	16-12-2003 03:55									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion So he sh@gged a slave in 1925.

Slavery ended 60 years before 1925.

	16-12-2003 03:57									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Shi: Funny how conservatives are always the ones to say "Who cares?" when a conservative scumbag is exposed.

Because it really is "who Cares" since he's been exposed as a scumbag so many times it would be hard for him to get any scumier.

	16-12-2003 03:59									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Slavery ended 60 years before 1925.

Aren't we talking about the south?

	16-12-2003 04:10									#36
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quote: Originally posted by rah Because it really is "who Cares" since he's been exposed as a scumbag so many times it would be hard for him to get any scumier.

Yet again, rah cuts to the chase.

	16-12-2003 04:12									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Aren't we talking about the south?

Asmodean

	16-12-2003 04:13									#38
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quote: Originally posted by rah Because it really is "who Cares" since he's been exposed as a scumbag so many times it would be hard for him to get any scumier.

but I love beating dead horses!

if this were a normal person, I wouldn't care, but conservative politicians live their lives trying to force their morality down everyone's throat... I take joy in seeing these bastard hypocrits exposed as the asshats they are.

	16-12-2003 04:22									#39
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FDR made no policy statements for the end of segregation, in any way shape of form, especially as a democrat of that day. Hell, you don't get the entire Southern vote in those days for being racial sensative. He was, unless you can find some long lost record, a supporter of segregation as was the vast majority of the US in the 40's, let along the 30's, 20's and teens.

I am sure your father, like most people who lived back then, have a very selective memory concerning their political views of the time. And if he truly did not support segregatuin in WW2 (And I am not saying he was lying) he as a very small minority.

-Pat

	16-12-2003 04:25									#40
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Remember, Strom ran for pres in the 48 election with the main platform being that states should be the ones that decide if lynching is legal. Honest.

	16-12-2003 04:27									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos FDR made no policy statements for the end of segregation, in any way shape of form, especially as a democrat of that day. Hell, you don't get the entire Southern vote in those days be being racial sensative. He was, unless you can find some long lost record, a supporter of segregation as was the vast majority of the US in the 40's, let along the 30's, 20's and teens. I am sure your father, like most people who lived back then, have a very selective memory concerning their political views of the time. And if he truly did not support segregatuin in WW2 (And I am not saying he was lying) he as a very small minority. -Pat

New York integrated its schools in 1940, I believe. New england never had segregated schools. Formal Jim Crow was not found in the North, or was disappearing at the time. Why would Northerners support it? Where was the movement to establish it in the north?

There were few who made abolition of segregation in the south a priority, but to say that they "supported" segregation is a distortion.

Perhaps you are confusing informal social segregation with Jim Crow. The latter is what was meant by segregation at the time.

	16-12-2003 04:28									#42
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Proof: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/dixiecrat1.html

His results: http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/northam/1948.html

	16-12-2003 04:32									#43
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I said nothing about Jim Crow, but if you think de facto common place segregation did not exist up there....

And FDR was not presedent of the NE, but of the USA. You can believe that FDR did not believe in segregation (and what is worse, truly believing in something, even if it is wrong, or knowing it is wrong and doing nothing about it. Those are the only two options we can give FDR, a attribute the first) if you want, just like Goerge Washington was against slavery.

-Pat

	16-12-2003 04:36									#44
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I am not debating that Strom had some currently unacceptable views, but what you have to remember is he was nowhere near an outcast in 1948, and I am not talking about just the South. Things were different back then, and you can't seperate common beleifs of that time for most of the important people we idealize from that time.

-Pat

	16-12-2003 04:38									#45
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Before he was POTUS he was governor of NY.

LotM,
We had effective Jim Crow in Illinois, and probably Indiana as well. Don't nkow about other Northern states.

	16-12-2003 04:57									#46
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A very rich and privlaged govenor at that, who I am sure sympathized witht he help.

-Pat

	16-12-2003 05:28									#47
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IIRC many public facilities up north were effectively segregated even after WW2. Travelling blacks generally had to stay at special black hotels and motels up north even if they were as famous as Duke Ellington. When major league sports teams began to enlist black atheletes they initially had a great deal of difficulty persuading hotels to allow the black members to stay with the team.

	16-12-2003 07:04									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Sava but I love beating dead horses! if this were a normal person, I wouldn't care, but conservative politicians live their lives trying to force their morality down everyone's throat... I take joy in seeing these bastard hypocrits exposed as the asshats they are.

This just in, Strom Thurmond is a corpse. We return you know to your dead horse beating....

	16-12-2003 07:08									#49
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark New York integrated its schools in 1940, I believe. New england never had segregated schools. Formal Jim Crow was not found in the North, or was disappearing at the time. Why would Northerners support it? Where was the movement to establish it in the north? There were few who made abolition of segregation in the south a priority, but to say that they "supported" segregation is a distortion. Perhaps you are confusing informal social segregation with Jim Crow. The latter is what was meant by segregation at the time.

There was a lot of racial acrimony in the north due to the large number of blacks who fled the south for the north during the depression and world war two. Racial tensions were increasing in the north for years, culminating in race riots starting at least by WW2 (in Michigan) and peaking in the 1960s. Things got worse for blacks in the north before they got better.

	16-12-2003 07:11									#50
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Forcing morality down your throats??? HAHAHAHA

Whose welfare state do we live in, and what is all this about gay marriage in Mass, and what is that whole affirmative action thing? If anyone has had anything stuffed down their throat it is the conservatives.

-Pat

	16-12-2003 07:11									#51
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Can anyone tell me what does "Jim Crow" mean? It seems to be the symbolic name of the average villager racist white or opressed black, but I'm at a loss here.

	16-12-2003 07:14									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Asmodean For some reason, this Therman - Thurmond business totally cracks me up..

Thank you. I tried to break things up. Credit goes to GePap for his help.

	16-12-2003 07:32									#53
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"Jim Crow" laws were basically raferances the hipoctitical, racist, and segregationalists laws in existance from the end of the Civil War to the 1960s. It can be used to descibe a person, but basically it is a term to describe the laws themselves.

-Pat

	16-12-2003 07:45									#54
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Thanks for the explanation Pat

	16-12-2003 10:23									#55
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I'll agree that Strom having a mixed-race daughter is merely amusing, and only faintly so.

But her mom was 16 and working for the Thurmonds when Strom (then 22) knocked her up. That just screams rape, in the most stereotypical, Old South, droit du seigneur way. That's truly disgusting. Not surprising or shocking, mind you, just disgusting.

	16-12-2003 11:05									#56
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FYI, The phrase "Jim Crow" is taken from a turn of the century vaudeville act in which a blackface singer does a little dance ditty while singing:
Everytime I jump about,
(something something) And So,
Everytime I jump about,
I jump Jim Crow
(or something on that line).
For some reason, that vaudeville show's lyrics came to represent laws of segregation and to limit black civil rights.

	16-12-2003 12:29									#57
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yep this is old news.

am I the only one not surprised by it? I wasn't shocked at all when I heard it on the radio a few days ago.

	16-12-2003 17:30									#58
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Dixicrats then?

	16-12-2003 17:52									#59
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Or maybe it was just two horney young people getting it on for fun and having an accident? But no, that never happens is real life, it must be he was making a none impulsive deliberate political decision when he decided to stick it too her. I often think of the long term political ramifications twenty years down the road when I am hunting for some lovin at the bars...

So Strom Thurmond was a hipocrit like every other living breathing member of the human race, is that supposed to make me not like him or identify with him?

-Pat

	16-12-2003 18:03									#60
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Therman, Pat... Therman...