26-12-2003 15:04									#31
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quote: True enough, though the last human move usually just change things tactically, not strategically.

Yes, but tactical moves may be quite expensive. For isntance, pathfinding may have to be computed again before a target changed or a chokepoint has been blocked. This is usually CPU-expensive.
The big problem with pathfinding is roads. Since they change the cost of movement through a place, it makes the best pathfinding optimisation (precomputation of paths) impossible to apply in civ games.

The number of civs should not be a problem as far as time is concerned. Number of units and cities is much more important, so the time spent for a turn should only be function of the size of the map. I think this is a realistic goal for any civ game (the strategic evaluations for each civ will not change every turn, otherwise they'd not be strategic, so they will probably take only a small amount of time and can be run in the background).

	26-12-2003 15:18									#32
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quote: Originally posted by POTUS My computer is a few months old, and it is supposably "fast". For some reason, either Civ III enjoys making my computer go slower than a snail, or Civ III is slow.

I agree, I too have a new pc.

Atari live up to the history of the company name

still a great game

	28-12-2003 19:59									#33
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GalCiv has better AI than Civ3, with little or no slowdown. My point is clear, I think.

-Jam

	28-12-2003 20:41									#34
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Apples to oranges, Jamski...

A tile based system complicates the AI in a civ game significantly. Tiled maps make many AI strategies computationally expensive.

Good AI in a sparse map? Easier and cheaper.

	28-12-2003 21:45									#35
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Mr Baggins, your critic misses the point. Galciv is tile based. You can build starbases everywhere except where there are stars (or if other starbases are nearby, but this is a recent change). There are no ship lanes so pathfinding still has to take into account all the intermediary tiles (f.e. there are sectors where you have speed bonuses or maluses due to starbases, a bit akin to roads).
Galciv's ai is good not because it moves its units intelligently (it does not), but because it realises what threats are much better than civ3, and the system is wired to make things simple for the ai to manage its empire.
Now Galciv is fast because it thinks during your turn. Civ could do so too, even though as I said you can't plan everything during the player's turn.

	30-12-2003 22:56									#36
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I don't know if this suggestion belongs here, but, what about multi-civ-versions support?.

I mean, Civ4 must include a "back to Civ3/PtW/C3C/Civ2?" feature. And also we must be able to play all the versions with this feature.

I mean, not like nowadays that if you're playing a PtW PBEM and C3C PBEM, you have to open,play,close,open,play,close both, something that really slooooooooowss the computer, in adition of the slow engine of Civ3 and series.

Of course a kind of this will perhaps delay or make a little more expensive Civ4, but I think it will worth for it. And if you get desilusionate (something that no one whats, but it happens... ), you can you back to your prefered civ version.


What do you think?.

	30-12-2003 23:45									#37
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Backward compatibility of save games is already pretty hard to do. Backward compatibility of features is even worse. It would be possible to have compatibility between a version and the Xpacks, including being able to open a game saved in an XPack you don't have as long as you've got the text/graphics files that describe the additional units (like mods).

	31-12-2003 02:25									#38
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quote: I mean, not like nowadays that if you're playing a PtW PBEM and C3C PBEM, you have to open,play,close,open,play,close both, something that really slooooooooowss the computer, in adition of the slow engine of Civ3 and series.

Solution: Reboot.

With newer things, which have better graphics and more features (especially a more complicated feature, like say an AI that could pass a special education class), a game will have higher requirements. Now, there's room for improvement in Civ3, but I can understand if they can't make a 500x500 tile, 64civ map run on my old 486.

(A few dudes say that huge requirements of games is what drives the computer market. So, help the high-tech economy, Firaxis! Make Civ the biggest slowest resource hog known to man! )

	31-12-2003 02:46									#39
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quote: (A few dudes say that huge requirements of games is what drives the computer market. So, help the high-tech economy, Firaxis! Make Civ the biggest slowest resource hog known to man!

Haha! You haven't used CAD programs, have you?
The problem with games requiring stronger computers is most people can't afford the new computer. I buy a new comp when the old one is falling apart, not because I need it to play game XXX. I can wait 2 more years to play XXX when I've bought a new computer.