20-01-2004 19:54									#121
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quote: Milton Friedman Friedrick von Hayek

Darn, I keep confusing those two as they both have "Fried" in their name. Which one is the "founder" of monetarism again?

quote: However I don't accept mathematicians score higher.

I don't know if mathematicians especially score higher. I just used it as an example of the empirically researched fact that experience and training, besides inherent ability, influence IQ score.

quote: And I think Maniac's a little more than an average member of the population, when it comes to current affairs and economic knowledge

Well I haven't even had one hour of economy lesson in my entire life. Though that will be fixed next semested with an economics course, and I will be properly indoctrinated in the teachings of Keynesianism and Monetarism.

quote: Why not? Greenspan is a trained economist, doing exactly what any economist at university does.

I doubted if I should include him as he isn't dead yet.

	20-01-2004 19:58									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Enigma: It's a logaritmic scale (or some other expanding scale), IIRC.

It is what we call a NORMAL DISTRIBUTION.
e^(-1*x*x)

quote: I'm still amazed in all the IQ threads on OTF that I still haven't published mine. Though I promised not to until JW did with his (I don't know who's got the highest on Poly, but im 99% sure it's one of the two of us, and I really don't want to know).

You're around 200, eh?
It is rare to find such kickass intelligence as we.

quote: it means there are 5 people with 180+ IQs for every 200+ person.

It means that there are 5 people with 80 IQ for every 100 IQ
And 25 60 IQs
And 125 40 IQs
So in fact, the 'average' would be much, much lower.
Now, for your lack of foresight, I offer you a cookie.
Enigma hands Drogue a tasty looking biscuit

quote: I'm the other way. After reading Sartre, it made me realise how wonderful life is. Sure it's gratuitous, it has no purpose and no meaning, but it's fun

I smile weakly at the thought of this.
Purpose and Meaning are ideas we might choose to construct.
I have Purpose but not Meaning. (Just because I want to do something doesn't mean it's worthwhile or right - it means I want to do something)
As for fun? Yes, a way to live, a way to die. I want to solve problems, and if it fun you can call that my motivator, but when it is not fun and when pain and exhaustion take in, I would rather work through to feel the joy of achievement than give up and do something impulsive.
Even if the joy did not come, I would sooner be productive than happy, though by its nature I will probably have both.

quote: Why not accept what you know, and live a normal life.

I've spent enough of my life in sadness to know what a 'normal life' feels like, Drogue. Giving up breaks both my productivity and my spirit, and while I have learned very well to live with depression, I can say that... whoever said life was good was an imbecile.

You might call it doubt, I would call it hope, but I do not 'know' that it is impossible, I do not 'know' that I am powerless and I do not 'know' that I will be killed by the very people I was trying to help. In this instance I may be confusing doubt for ignorance, but forseeing my death brings me anything but peace.

One day I may accept my failure, but I believe I have the desire to fix problems for a reason, and while I may not understand what that reason is or why on earth I have that attribute, I cite this reason as being developed by millenia of evolution, and evolution does not produce the obsolete.

Who knows? Maybe I am going to become extinct. But it looks like I'm still alive now (I think) so as long as I'm still alive, my dreams and longings are not yet dead.
As I see it I have only two options: Win or Die.
There is nothing else for me in this life.

quote: Completely. However your statements of your own gifted status seem to imply that you believe you have to dumb down. While, to almost anyone you would, there will be people here you would not need to. I already know of 3 people on Poly who have 180+ IQs.

Nescesity is a term that's highly overrated.
I don't need to change myself for anything. In fact, do I even need myself?

quote: Because I feel inadiquate at times, although mostly because I feel like myself, I feel like I'm talking as I would to someone who I knew was at the very least my equal, and because she understand me. Even when I feel like my thoughts are too much to trace, and I can't see where I get ideas from, she can understand them. And because I felt this from the moment I met her. I haven't adapted this to her, I always refuse to dumb down the first time I meet someone intelligent, incase it is not needed.

Oddly enough I never feel inadequate... Sometimes I feel as if I'm fading out of reality, or that my hope and willpower aren't there anymore, but never inadequate.
Always dying, never dead.

And as for Louise, I guess the fates have thrown you a bone on this one. Now all I have to do is wait for my turn.

quote: Part of it's just being on the same wavelength, part of it's because she is the most intelligent person I've ever met, that I almost feel the need to try to highten what I say. And partly because she won't tell me her IQ, although she got a full scholarship to her school on the bases of that test.

Finding one intelligent person is hard enough.
But finding two? What are the odds in that?

quote: Another part is that I've meditated for years, and I know when I'm alone, I think to myself. I know I don't dumb down to myself, I never have, it is my haven, so to speak. I talk to her as I talk to myself, at the top of my ability.

If you only knew the things I talked to myself about. I reckon it could make anyone go crazy.

	20-01-2004 20:24									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova It is what we call a NORMAL DISTRIBUTION. e^(-1*x*x)

Yep

quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova You're around 200, eh? It is rare to find such kickass intelligence as we.

Depends what you consider around. In percentile terms, IIRC, by all probability there are only about 10 200+ people in the world. I'm not quite that high However in number it would be close.

quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova It means that there are 5 people with 80 IQ for every 100 IQ And 25 60 IQs And 125 40 IQs So in fact, the 'average' would be much, much lower. Now, for your lack of foresight, I offer you a cookie. Enigma hands Drogue a tasty looking biscuit

No, it means there are 5 people with 100 for every person with 80, roughly. 100, being the median, means that it would get sparser each side. 49% of people are above 100, 49% below IIRC (out of study of about a million, standardised for bias). However I was just illustrating the point, that small differences in the number are quite large in percentile. I usually work in percentile because it helps compare easily.

quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova I smile weakly at the thought of this. Purpose and Meaning are ideas we might choose to construct. I have Purpose but not Meaning. (Just because I want to do something doesn't mean it's worthwhile or right - it means I want to do something) As for fun? Yes, a way to live, a way to die. I want to solve problems, and if it fun you can call that my motivator, but when it is not fun and when pain and exhaustion take in, I would rather work through to feel the joy of achievement than give up and do something impulsive. Even if the joy did not come, I would sooner be productive than happy, though by its nature I will probably have both.

I agree, with the exception of the last bit. IMHO, your desire to be productive is bought on from a 'greater happiness'. I think we are all personal utilitarians, we always do what we think will cause us the most happiness. Not superficial happiness, but overall, long term inner happiness. If being productive did not make you feel happy (or proud, or a sense of achievement, whatever inner happiness is to you) then you wouldn't be productive. But we all want to accomplish something.

quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova I've spent enough of my life in sadness to know what a 'normal life' feels like, Drogue. Giving up breaks both my productivity and my spirit, and while I have learned very well to live with depression, I can say that... whoever said life was good was an imbecile.

That's not what I mean. Be productive. Your clever enough to find ways of doing things that work well, and need not involve you explaining you reasoning. What I mean is why change people to accept it. Most people cannot understand your thought process, because it's far to complex. If you want recognition for achievement, and achievement itself (or productivity) then simply do what you do well, the way you want to, and let others see the results. I'm saying it doesn't matter how clever they think you are, how you come up with things, if the results are good.

However depression is not what I'd mean by a normal life. I think life is good. I enjoy my life. But that's me. I got over depression because of two things: I like myself and learned to be proud of myself and my abilities, and because I had a reason to, a purpose I cared more about than how I felt.

quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova Oddly enough I never feel inadequate... Sometimes I feel as if I'm fading out of reality, or that my hope and willpower aren't there anymore, but never inadequate. Always dying, never dead.

I get what you mean. Its more of a frustration that while I know the answer, I don't know how to express it, or that sometimes I just need to be better, so that I can always do the right thing for her. Sadly that's never quite true

quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova And as for Louise, I guess the fates have thrown you a bone on this one.

quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova Finding one intelligent person is hard enough. But finding two? What are the odds in that?

She's gone to school next to my house for the last 13 years. What were the odds of us *not* finding each other.

quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova If you only knew the things I talked to myself about. I reckon it could make anyone go crazy.

Possibly. I know exactly what you mean

	20-01-2004 20:27									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Darn, I keep confusing those two as they both have "Fried" in their name. Which one is the "founder" of monetarism again?

Milton Friendman. However Hayek was also a Monetarist, and about the same time too.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac I don't know if mathematicians especially score higher. I just used it as an example of the empirically researched fact that experience and training, besides inherent ability, influence IQ score.

Possibly, although none of the very high IQ people I know have seen a difference in their first and last test, by any large amount. You can learn it, but not very well, IMHO.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Well I haven't even had one hour of economy lesson in my entire life. Though that will be fixed next semested with an economics course, and I will be properly indoctrinated in the teachings of Keynesianism and Monetarism.

Yet you know that a "Fried" founded Monetarism. A hell of a lot more than the average person (who wouldn't know what Monetarism was). Even many politicians would know a lot less, and they really shouldn't!

quote: Originally posted by Maniac I doubted if I should include him as he isn't dead yet.

Neither is Milton Friedman, is he? Besides, i was thinking maybe I should only include alive ones

	20-01-2004 20:53									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue No, it means there are 5 people with 100 for every person with 80,

Then it's two-tailed exponential. The one problem I have with that is that such a distribution function is not differentiable.

quote: I agree, with the exception of the last bit. IMHO, your desire to be productive is bought on from a 'greater happiness'.

Well if we define the feeling of 'I wanna do this now' as a greater happiness, then sure. I tend to term it 'decision' based on 'values', subonscious judgement on how to achieve what I want.

quote: If being productive did not make you feel happy (or proud, or a sense of achievement, whatever inner happiness is to you)

A. Vengeance B. Fix problems
It gets two of the things I like. (Though Vengeance should probably be called 'personal justice')

quote: That's not what I mean.

If you're asking me to give up my fight against The Enemy I decline! Consider it my 'agenda' to fix what I see is a problem.
(Though it's not nearly as general as that)

quote: Most people cannot understand your thought process, because it's far to complex.

IMO no, it's far too ASIMILAR.
If it were complex I could envision an 11-dimensional fractal object that extends into the complex and real planes.
What do you mean I can already do that?
Oh... Yeah, too complex. Righteyo then!

I don't work for others - I work for my own goals. Let me get that straight before anyone suggests working for the results that -they- want...

quote: I like myself and learned to be proud of myself and my abilities,

Whereas I keep beating myself up about why I haven't solved the world's problems yet.
Although I'm not guilty for my past mistakes, my inadequacies and incompetancies trouble me.
"If you have ever learned anything, it is because you have been hard on yourself."
Well Fred, I know TRUCKLOADS.

quote: I get what you mean.

Ummm... I'll take that as a possibility, but it's been a farce in the past. You understand me how you interperet me, yes?

quote:

Where's my hot, caring intellectually arrogant maiden?
I WANNA HOT CARING SMART WOMAN AS WELL. *pout*

quote: Possibly. I know exactly what you mean

It's gonna be so weird when they get those MMIs and we can see each-others' thoughts.
I bet I make you crazy before you make me crazy!

	20-01-2004 21:16									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova Well if we define the feeling of 'I wanna do this now' as a greater happiness, then sure. I tend to term it 'decision' based on 'values', subonscious judgement on how to achieve what I want.

Nope, I'd define great happiness as whatever that person believes will make them happiest in their life. It's kinda self-fulfilling, but it works

quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova Where's my hot, caring intellectually arrogant maiden? I WANNA HOT CARING SMART WOMAN AS WELL. *pout*

quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova It's gonna be so weird when they get those MMIs and we can see each-others' thoughts. I bet I make you crazy before you make me crazy!

I'm a CyCon, we're already telepathic

	21-01-2004 00:03									#127
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I'm out to achieve -my goals-, and happiness isn't the forefront of my mind.
You could argue that justice and problem-solving are fulfilling, and that wisdom and power are means to these, so I'm being just as hedonistic as the rest of us.

Me? I don't see it as a seek of an emotion - I see it as the belief in a value - the value of right-mindedness.
It may or may not make me happy - but the main issue is not what the belief does to me, but whether I believe it.

	21-01-2004 06:02									#128
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I'm really glad I don't come in here any more.

	21-01-2004 09:26									#129
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quote: I'm really glad I don't come in here any more.

	21-01-2004 11:15									#130
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quote: I'm out to achieve -my goals-, and happiness isn't the forefront of my mind. You could argue that justice and problem-solving are fulfilling, and that wisdom and power are means to these, so I'm being just as hedonistic as the rest of us.

What then is justice? Wisdom? Power? Before one can seek one must know the destination otherwise we would be blind men walking abound a dark room looking for something we do not even know.

	21-01-2004 12:13									#131
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"Tarnation, Cletus, we done fell over a log o' ego in the road!"
"Uh-huh, it done blocked up Trash Talk Lane purty good, Jethro."
"We best get the ATV so's we can jump this puppy, Cletus."
"Go'n fetch it, then."

	21-01-2004 14:49									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Crimson Sunrise I'm really glad I don't come in here any more.

This is just one thread that happened to turn into a discussion. There's enough decent spam here as it is!

Actually, it's quite strange that one of the pure spam-intended threads turns out to be a decent discussion, whereas many of the game threads decend into spam.

Like when I went into a "religion and spirituality" forum and flamed it, and it ended in the only religious discussion they've ever had there (in about 4 years of being up).

	21-01-2004 21:34									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Like when I went into a "religion and spirituality" forum and flamed it, and it ended in the only religious discussion they've ever had there (in about 4 years of being up).

The only one?! I'd insult them, but that fact speaks for itself.

	22-01-2004 01:44									#134
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Yeah, when Drogue, Enigma and Voltaire show up we can neutralise even the most potent spam.

	22-01-2004 04:39									#135
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Hehe... All you have to do is let me into the Hive forums and everything would be clean and spamless then

	22-01-2004 13:36									#136
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What happens when an Unstoppable Intellect hits an Immovable Spam?

...Decent people shouldn't think too much about that.

	22-01-2004 13:38									#137
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Hence your obsession with it.

	22-01-2004 14:37									#138
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I liked another one of Enigma's best (went something like this):
A member from each faction is given a rope to hold onto for as long as possible. Who wins?
The CyCon:
The Drone can't hold onto anything for longer than 9 hours,
The Hiverian are distracted by another spam thread,
The PUT member can't run the whole faction and hold onto a rope at the same time, and
The Pirate gets OWNED.

	22-01-2004 18:31									#139
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The Hive = spamthreads?
Methinks I joined the wrong faction.

	22-01-2004 18:34									#140
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Well, the hive=only spam threads (edit: from what i've heard ). The CyCon is a 'prolific' forum. And the CyCon's have the fun bit of war at the moment

Last edited by Drogue on 22-01-2004 at 19:08

	22-01-2004 18:58									#141
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Ahh, all is well then. I'm not a spammer, I am merely "prolific".
Such a nice term, that.

	22-01-2004 21:32									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns The Hive = spamthreads? Methinks I joined the wrong faction.

If you intend to spam up my glorious Hive you can expect a great deal of beratement. When there is a task to perform I am quite intolerant of incompetance (or slothfulness).
If you want a hedonistic trip, join the PEACE. Eat, Drink and be merry for tomorrow you will die.

...

Drogue, I often make serious or thoughtful threads.
As a consequence of them needing a three digit IQ to comprehend, they are ignored entirely.
Such a thread is left -ENTIRELY FULL- of highly intelligent posts.
Just one post.
My own.

	22-01-2004 21:35									#143
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However something like HongHu's RP takes a lot of skill too. It's still amazing how a faction so inefficiently run can still be the most powerful. I think that deserves a well done

	22-01-2004 21:51									#144
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On an unrelated note, could a pirate please give some estimate when the turn will be posted?

	22-01-2004 21:52									#145
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue The Drone can't hold onto anything for longer than 9 hours

I think 9 hours would win. Holding a rope for no purpose is an illogical waste of time, so the CyCon would let go immediately.

	22-01-2004 21:55									#146
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quote: Originally posted by jtsisyoda I think 9 hours would win. Holding a rope for no purpose is an illogical waste of time, so the CyCon would let go immediately.

Oooh, good one

Depends on the prize though

	22-01-2004 22:46									#147
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quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova If you intend to spam up my glorious Hive you can expect a great deal of beratement.

Don't worry, I won't go anywhere near Hive threads. Who knows where they have been?

	23-01-2004 04:26									#148
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quote: It's still amazing how a faction so inefficiently run can still be the most powerful. I think that deserves a well done

Thanks

quote: Just one post. My own.

Welcome to my nightmare.

	24-01-2004 05:24									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Don't worry, I won't go anywhere near Hive threads. Who knows where they have been?

Well, more change now that you now in advance

	31-01-2004 06:01									#150
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so this ugly thread has finally died ?