06-01-2004 03:57									#91
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I thought it was generally accept that there probably used to be water on Mars.

	06-01-2004 03:57									#92
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quote: Originally posted by TheStinger The rovers should be sent to find Beagle 2

Machines should help each other

Could someone please notify or link the colour pictures in this thread when they appear?

I've had enough of checking the NASA site every now and then.

	06-01-2004 04:01									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I thought it was generally accept that there probably used to be water on Mars.

Generally expected or accepted?

Wouldn't it be nice to know.

	06-01-2004 04:05									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I thought it was generally accept that there probably used to be water on Mars.

With that and a nickle you get 5 cents in scientific circles. Solid, " only an idiot would challenge this" proof is acceptable when trying to prove something no longer obviously true, like that water once covered protions of Mars.

And of course, if they find traces of anceitn water, they can then start trying to figure out how to look for ancient fossils of any type.

	06-01-2004 04:07									#95
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"used"? or "use"?

I want to know.

oh, and I think it's "accepted" since he adds "probably" in there too. Though still, it's kind of like there might have been a chance that we thought water could of existed on Mars.

Says nothing

	06-01-2004 04:13									#96
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quote: Generally expected or accepted? Wouldn't it be nice to know.

$100 million+ for less uncertainty seems to me an expensive propostion. In cases like this, the socialist trumps the scientist in me.

	06-01-2004 04:19									#97
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quote: With that and a nickle you get 5 cents in scientific circles.

Geology isn't a real science anyways. *Puts on flame suit.*

	06-01-2004 04:25									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Big Crunch I don't think diverting the few million spent on this space mission would make anywhere near as big a dent on those problems as diverting the few billion spent on other non-essential government programmes would.

Oh I'm all for diverting large amounts from a lot of useless programs. I tend to think giving lots money to people who crash their probes because they forgot to use metric measurements or sent up a telescope that couldnt do what is supposed to do until they sent yet another mission to repair it is a good idea. But then again, it's just a 100 million here and a billion there. What good could that small change really do for people.

I'm not against the space program in of itself, but I can't really get excited by them putting a multi million dollar toy on the surface of Mars.

	06-01-2004 04:30									#99
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It's also funny how people get so excited about possible water on Mars when our own water here on Earth probably needs just a little more attention. I really hate to turn into a an enviro fundie or a welfare fundie but damn man, we have all kinds of problems here where we live. Does going to Mars solve those problems? Please enlighten me, I may be wrong.

	06-01-2004 04:43									#100
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Going to Mars doesn't solve those problems, but maybe, just maybe, somewhere down the line it'll solve other problems.

Like overcrowding, and competing with other countries for resources, and unfriendly neighbors.

But you're an Alpha Centauri player, Sprayber. You should understand.

	06-01-2004 04:48									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber It's also funny how people get so excited about possible water on Mars when our own water here on Earth probably needs just a little more attention. I really hate to turn into a an enviro fundie or a welfare fundie but damn man, we have all kinds of problems here where we live. Does going to Mars solve those problems? Please enlighten me, I may be wrong.

I agree that the money could be better spent on improving lives on Earth, but I can also see the benefit in spending some money on non-essential activities.

To be a true humanist would be great, were you give all your disposable time and income to a charity that does make a difference in peoples lives. Most people don't, they make varying degrees of effort, but in general 'waste' their money on self-indulgence or leisure activities. I don't see this as wrong, and I don't think it needs to be discouraged unless it is decadent.

I think the same is true for society as a whole - we don't need to spend all our money and effort on improving society, some of it should be expended on dispensible activities.

	06-01-2004 05:07									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Geology isn't a real science anyways. *Puts on flame suit.*

Hooray for Pathfinder/Sojerner's big brother! Those first pictures really do look like a dried up crater lake; there are no large boulders like we saw with Viking and Pathfinder photos, presumibly, I think, because the lake sediments covered them

	06-01-2004 06:09									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Crimson Sunrise Going to Mars doesn't solve those problems, but maybe, just maybe, somewhere down the line it'll solve other problems. Like overcrowding, and competing with other countries for resources, and unfriendly neighbors. But you're an Alpha Centauri player, Sprayber. You should understand.

When they start building the Unity I'll be the first to sign up. I already know who I'll be following

	06-01-2004 23:52									#104
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Back to the topic from politics..

They have published the first high-resolution colour images from Mars.

There is small image, a larger image (8mb) and a full resolution TIFF image (40mb) available. They also said these images are just the "tip of the iceberg" what they will be getting in the future. These images are somewhat compressed and not stereo images, those will be coming later.

	07-01-2004 00:01									#105
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Personally I would have made the sky blue for the effect, but NASA photoshop division probably knows what they are doing.

	07-01-2004 00:05									#106
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Sprayber, we do not explore space at the expense of taking care of our people and world. We give millionaries tax cuts at the expense of taking care of our people and our world. If we didn't explore space, we'd still be letting the rich and the lazy turn our planet into a cesspool.

	07-01-2004 00:06									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I didn't say that all of NASA is useless, but exploration isn't particularly useful.

otoh, think how much more expensive a manned mission would be. Cant we think of how much we're saving by launching robotic missions?

	07-01-2004 00:11									#108
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That 8 MB jpeg is really detailed, especially for the items that are closer to the rover. This is cool stuff!

	07-01-2004 00:13									#109
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Go NASA! They really needed this one to work.

I didn't realize how godawfully bad the success rate for Mars missions was. Wow. All those Russian probes, some of ours, the Japanese, and apparently Beagle2 as well.

-Arrian

	07-01-2004 00:17									#110
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Doh.. It seems they removed the largest (40mb) full resolution TIFF image from the page just a few minutes after I posted.. the link was just below the 8mb one. Oh well, I hope they put it back once the site traffic allows.

	07-01-2004 00:18									#111
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Nova on PBS is supposed to have a special tonite with the folks from JPL and some new updated shots.

Very cool indeed. And I think they're launching the second one on Jan 24, and hopefully that will be equally successful.

	07-01-2004 00:19									#112
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Oh, that's right, I remember seeing a promo for that show, Jac. 8pm EST?

-Arrian

	07-01-2004 00:21									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay Nova on PBS is supposed to have a special tonite with the folks from JPL and some new updated shots. Very cool indeed. And I think they're launching the second one on Jan 24, and hopefully that will be equally successful.

No, that's when it's landing.

	07-01-2004 00:21									#114
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Sprayber, we do not explore space at the expense of taking care of our people and world. We give millionaries tax cuts at the expense of taking care of our people and our world. If we didn't explore space, we'd still be letting the rich and the lazy turn our planet into a cesspool.

Didnt we waste money on space before Bush was president? Yes I think we did.

	07-01-2004 00:22									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Didnt we waste money on space before Bush was president? Yes I think we did.

Mine was a general comment, not directed at any specific Administration.

	07-01-2004 00:24									#116
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quote: No, that's when it's landing.

Ahh.. thanks for the clarification

quote: Oh, that's right, I remember seeing a promo for that show, Jac. 8pm EST?

Yeah..at 8pm. I think they're replaying the sunday special, Mars: Dead or Alive and then having a live follow-up.

	07-01-2004 00:25									#117
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We almost went to see the 2nd launch last year, but they changed the date and time so it didn't work out for us.

	07-01-2004 00:32									#118
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Too bad goverments don't take the inititive to share more in space exploration beyond the joke that is the space station. With the combined resources of the leading nations, something worth the effort could be done. I'm not against space exploration at all. But for now they are talking a lot, spending a lot but not doing all that much. If something exciting was happening then maybe the spending a lot wouldnt be as bad.

	07-01-2004 00:37									#119
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I saw the Mars, Dead or Alive? special, and it looked like the second launch was pretty close to not happening at all, Che. They had all sorts of problems.

quote: Too bad goverments don't take the inititive to share more in space exploration beyond the joke that is the space station.

Which is apparently leaking. More cooperation would probably be good, although there is something to be said for competition.

-Arrian

	07-01-2004 05:47									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber It's also funny how people get so excited about possible water on Mars when our own water here on Earth probably needs just a little more attention. I really hate to turn into a an enviro fundie or a welfare fundie but damn man, we have all kinds of problems here where we live. Does going to Mars solve those problems? Please enlighten me, I may be wrong.

By that reckoning, there would never be any space travel as there will always be problems, will there not? In any case, like all R&D, without taking risks in the first place, there can never be any pay-off.

In any case, like, we would otherwise spend the money on worthwhile causes Besides, whenever someone complains that the government is spending money on something, they are usually complaining that the government is not spending it on them!