09-01-2004 20:37									#91
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I think I'm going to go to Den Den Town tomorrow and buy Panther, iLife and a 15 GB iPod in honour of you, Glonkie. Kisses...

	09-01-2004 20:47									#92
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I'd never imagine you could spend so much Money to make your point. You must really be more well off than I thought

	09-01-2004 20:54									#93
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I'm raking it in, Spiff.

	09-01-2004 21:57									#94
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i don't see why macheads hate microsoft so much. really, i don't.

microsoft has kept your messiah-company alive when it otherwise wouldn't be.

then again, i don't exactly understand see why others think macs suck so much. they don't.

though i will have to admit the attitude macheads sometimes have, that of apple always being the alpha and omega of design, that of apple always being ahead of the curve, that of apple always being automagically superior to be quite tiring, especially because it's not quite true.

	09-01-2004 21:59									#95
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by the way, microsoft does make a version of office for the mac.

office mac v.x, which is about to be superseded this year by office mac 2004. office mac v.x was in some ways superior to office xp--such as the ability to automagically export to pdf files.

	09-01-2004 22:00									#96
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: though i will have to admit the attitude macheads sometimes have, that of apple always being the alpha and omega of design, that of apple always being ahead of the curve, that of apple always being automagically superior to be quite tiring, especially because it's not quite true.

Apple is automagically superior to all other computer companies...

	09-01-2004 22:01									#97
	Got spare money?

quote: such as the ability to automagically export to pdf files.

	09-01-2004 22:05									#98
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed then again, i don't exactly understand see why others think macs suck so much. they don't.

Hefty price
Almost no games
One click interface

	09-01-2004 22:13									#99
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what? i liked the print to adobe pdf option in word v.x.

the converse of that, spiff, is this:
g5
final cut pro 4
final cut pro 4 ON a g5.

	09-01-2004 22:16									#100
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I'm laughing at "automagically", Q³. Every time I read it, I think of the Lucky Charms leprechaun hawking Macs by claiming they're "automagically delicious"...

	09-01-2004 22:28									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper **shrug** This whole PC vs. Mac and vice-versa is just annoying in the sense that it so often denigrates into hissing and spitting. People oughta use what they like to use and leave it at that. Or, at the very least, keep the disagreements civil. Yeah, yeah, I know. Human nature isn't conducive to that pie-in-the-sky mentality. Still, it never hurts to try. Gatekeeper

I agree. No partisanship from me. I'm a Mac fan all the way. I just don't happen to own any Apple products... I had a chance to though. But I've now got my new Dell.

I'm a slave to the big evil corporations.

	09-01-2004 22:38									#102
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed the converse of that, spiff, is this: g5 final cut pro 4 final cut pro 4 ON a g5.

Maybe (well, I don't know what you're talking about, but I guess it's something good that is mac-only). But I sure use games much more than these things.

Currently, I'm playing Civ3 Conquests, Morrowind + both expansions, Diablo2, and Pirates of the Caribbean. Which one of these games have made it to Mac? I think only Diablo2 qualifies.
Besides, I'll shortly install Neverwinter Nights to play with the Dungeon of Apolyton (check it out ! ). I believe the Mac Users will not be able to experience it.

	10-01-2004 02:15									#103
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Maybe (well, I don't know what you're talking about, but I guess it's something good that is mac-only). But I sure use games much more than these things.

Final Cut Pro is professional video editing software. It's extremely popular and one reason why many creative pros use macs.

quote: Currently, I'm playing Civ3 Conquests, Morrowind + both expansions, Diablo2, and Pirates of the Caribbean. Which one of these games have made it to Mac? I think only Diablo2 qualifies. Besides, I'll shortly install Neverwinter Nights to play with the Dungeon of Apolyton (check it out ! ). I believe the Mac Users will not be able to experience it.

Neverwinter Nights is already out for the mac and has been for some time.

http://www.apple.com/games/articles...erwinternights/

	10-01-2004 02:20									#104
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Hefty price

This is bollox. Apple doesn't sell really cheap computers - that's about it. Apple products also don't tend to be discounted. Moreover you really need to focus on TOC rather than initial cost. For one thing you don't have to buy anti-virus software on a Mac.

quote: Almost no games

There are plenty of games. But you are right to the extent that if you use your computer mainly for gaming a mac is not for you.

quote: One click interface

You don't need a second mouse button to use the Mac interface. It's not Windows.

But if you want to use a two button mouse (or a five button mouse) you will find that Mac OS X supports it natively.

Apple doesn't have a two button mouse because the Mac OS is designed to be used with one hand on the mouse and the other on the keyboard. There are a stack of keyboard mouse combos used by the OS that it would be too cumbersome to do solely on a mouse.

	10-01-2004 02:25									#105
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed i don't see why macheads hate microsoft so much. really, i don't. microsoft has kept your messiah-company alive when it otherwise wouldn't be.

Probably because they nicked the interface and because they're an evil monopoly. There's also the time they deliberately crippled the Mac version of Word to make it slower than Windows. But that's water under the bridge now.

Microsoft has in fact been very loyal to the Mac platform. Indeed MS would not have the dominance it does in Office software if not for the Mac, since the core Office applications were all developed for the Mac back in the 80s - long before Windows even existed.

I don't think MS will abandon the Mac for the simple reason that they still make a hefty amount of money from selling Office for Mac and they have made money selling Mac Software for 20 years now.

quote: though i will have to admit the attitude macheads sometimes have, that of apple always being the alpha and omega of design, that of apple always being ahead of the curve, that of apple always being automagically superior to be quite tiring, especially because it's not quite true.

It's sometimes true.

	10-01-2004 02:30									#106
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: This whole PC vs. Mac and vice-versa is just annoying in the sense that it so often denigrates into hissing and spitting. People oughta use what they like to use and leave it at that. Or, at the very least, keep the disagreements civil.

Well it's because it is so much fun trolling your side. Then again, I have the feeling Asher isn't really trolling .

	10-01-2004 02:43									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Hefty price Almost no games One click interface

DING!!!

Argue about other stuff all you want, music players, software, looks, and whatever else but the fact is that Macs are MORE EXPENSIVE, have ONE FRIGGIN' MOUSE BUTTON and NO GAMES.

The argument should end there.

	10-01-2004 02:48									#108
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And don't go telling me about how Macs can support more than 1 mouse button. Do you have any idea how annoying it is to have to control click through different tools in Photoshop instead of just right clicking and selecting the one you want? Even with multiple buttons on a Mac you still have to do this. And the whole freakin' computer is that way. I guess if you like wasting time and working slow, then Macs are good.

"When I'm on a Mac I don't feel so much like I'm using the Mac but rather sharing in the Mac experience" :vomit:

	10-01-2004 02:50									#109
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Mac rocks! Just admit it! Apple is the light in PC boredom, Apple thank you for existing.

	10-01-2004 03:01									#110
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quote: Originally posted by BustaMike And don't go telling me about how Macs can support more than 1 mouse button. Do you have any idea how annoying it is to have to control click through different tools in Photoshop instead of just right clicking and selecting the one you want? Even with multiple buttons on a Mac you still have to do this. And the whole freakin' computer is that way. I guess if you like wasting time and working slow, then Macs are good. "When I'm on a Mac I don't feel so much like I'm using the Mac but rather sharing in the Mac experience" :vomit:

Um. No you don't. If you really care that much you can buy a multi button mouse and assign the controls however you like.

My Apple Pro mouse died (after years of abuse) and I decided to try a multibutton mouse - made by Microsoft who, whatever else can be said about them, make good mice. I can assign buttons however I like for different applications and have done so.

If you want to compare OSes go to xvsxp.com and bash it out with the combatants there.

	10-01-2004 03:05									#111
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: This whole PC vs. Mac and vice-versa is just annoying in the sense that it so often denigrates into hissing and spitting. People oughta use what they like to use and leave it at that. Or, at the very least, keep the disagreements civil. Well it's because it is so much fun trolling your side. Then again, I have the feeling Asher isn't really trolling .

The issue for me is not so much the minutiae of OS quality (which is fun to argue about nevertheless) but the effects of a near monopoly in desktop OSes on consumers.

Do I think that everyone should use an Apple OS? No. Do I think it's good to have one company "embrace and extend" its competitors out of existence? No. Do I think that we would all be better off if there was real competition? Yes.

	10-01-2004 03:39									#112
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: This whole PC vs. Mac and vice-versa is just annoying in the sense that it so often denigrates into hissing and spitting. People oughta use what they like to use and leave it at that. Or, at the very least, keep the disagreements civil. Well it's because it is so much fun trolling your side. Then again, I have the feeling Asher isn't really trolling .

He should apply for to MS human resources for a paycheck. That is, if they're not already paying him off with reduced-price and free products.

*cough* Ahem, now what was I doing just now? Oh, yeah. Perusing the specs of a Dell Dimension 2800 (and finding out its price isn't that much different than a higher-end iMac). Maybe I'll build myself one. Or maybe I'll stick with the iMac ... really, my priorities right now include getting a brand-new entertainment center, at-home work center/desk, a 30" or 34" HD TV, DVD player/recorder, PS2 and XBox ...

I ran all the calculations, and I could have everything I want (computer, etc.) for around $6000 tops (and that's being generous w/my savings).

Gatekeeper

	10-01-2004 03:40									#113
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GK. Try out Panther before you decide. It really is great.

	10-01-2004 03:43									#114
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Does Panther run Classic native? I'm rather attached to Civ II, and it would be really nice if it ran flawlessly on a 10.3 machine using Classic. The reason I ask is 'cause I've gotten mixed messages on whether or not 10.3 will run apps optimized for older OS's like 9.x and 8.6 ...

Gatekeeper

	10-01-2004 03:45									#115
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quote: Originally posted by BustaMike And don't go telling me about how Macs can support more than 1 mouse button. Do you have any idea how annoying it is to have to control click through different tools in Photoshop instead of just right clicking and selecting the one you want?

No. My Mac two-button mouse did all that for me. It's been four years since I got to work on that lovely Mac.

	10-01-2004 03:45									#116
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The problem isn't just with the Mac OS but also with how things are made for the OS. In Photoshop on a Mac in the tool window you change tools by control + clicking on a tool to change and scroll through them. So for example to get from the regular eraser to the background eraser I have to click twice or to get from the rectangle tool to the custom shape tool I must click 5 times.

You can reassign buttons all you want but that won't fix anything because the right click menu does not exist on the mac.

edit - Che are you sure? I was under the impression that there was no right click menu at all. How would a 2 button mouse fix this?

	10-01-2004 03:51									#117
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper Does Panther run Classic native? I'm rather attached to Civ II, and it would be really nice if it ran flawlessly on a 10.3 machine using Classic. The reason I ask is 'cause I've gotten mixed messages on whether or not 10.3 will run apps optimized for older OS's like 9.x and 8.6 ... Gatekeeper

It should run it if Jaguar ran it and Jaguar ran it just fine. Best thing to do is take your Civ II CD in to the store and get them to let you install it and test it. If they really want to make a sale, they will let you.

Classic works very well. Although having said that I deleted it from my machine as all the apps I need are now OS X native.

	10-01-2004 03:57									#118
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quote: Originally posted by BustaMike edit - Che are you sure? I was under the impression that there was no right click menu at all. How would a 2 button mouse fix this?

The reason that multibutton mice can be a liability is that the option, control and shift keys all work to modify Finder commands. For instance if I want to hide an app I just option click outside it's window. There are a stack of useful commands like these and there aren't enough mouse buttons to hold them all.

Here's a picture of a contextual menu in the Panther Finder.

You can access this by right clicking or ctrl-clicking.

	10-01-2004 04:14									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon the Mac OS is designed to be used with one hand on the mouse and the other on the keyboard.

Apples are unsuitable for porn surfing

	10-01-2004 04:40									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Zopperoni Apples are unsuitable for porn surfing

I've often said that myself in these forums.