29-01-2004 12:05									#61
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Is it bad of me to be drawing comparisions between Tarkin's ignominious death after being pretty much shunted to the side and marginalized and Yang's continual demise in every game I play where I'm not him?

	29-01-2004 12:31									#62
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Not even here for a full month and your taking potshots at others! I like you, Starfarer. You'll fit in at Apolyton just fine.

Potshots man, potshots....

	29-01-2004 21:55									#63
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I just realized that in my first SMAX game which I just completed few days ago, Yang was the first human faction to fall to my Data Angels' armies. Rest assured, at the end he was whimpering for mercy, offering blood truces then later everything he had including the kitchen sink.

But again, I was on the citizen level *smirk*

	29-01-2004 22:04									#64
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Sorry Franky, his style of play just doesn't appeal to me very much. I like to adjust my strategies to whatever faction (or civ-traits in Civ3) I'm playing, and I just don't know how to work his advantages.

That on top of the queasiness I get whenever I think about giving him a try.

	29-01-2004 22:13									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer ...but I have never, not once, played as Yang. Miriam either. I just found it too... distasteful.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!
Do not like Yang or Miriam!

Well I do not like to play with Santiago (bleargh) but I have played with many factions and hive is one of my favorite .

	29-01-2004 22:32									#66
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quote: Originally posted by shawnmmcc Lal is pretty straight foward, and the Spartans are a little tough. Morgan is easy if you play huge maps, but I've never tried him on a small one, that could be rough.

Just kicked arse with Morgan on small map (but lots of land and mind worms) at transcend difficulty.
I gave in to all extortions until clean reactors; then I prodded buttock.

	01-02-2004 21:36									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Frankychan Variant thereof. Good reference. 1 death is a tragedy, 1 million...a statistic.

Lol, Machiavelli would be proud.

	03-02-2004 06:47									#68
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CYBERGOD SIGHTING!!!

	03-02-2004 14:52									#69
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quote: Originally posted by HongHu Experience the experience. Feel it, in fact, amplify it. It will make you richer.

I am poor, but I'm happy.

	03-02-2004 23:21									#70
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You sure you haven't been nervestapled secretly so that you can feel nothing but happy even if when you are poor, Mr Burns?

	04-02-2004 03:04									#71
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What exactly does nerve stapling do, anyway?

No. NOT in game terms, I understand those.

	04-02-2004 03:14									#72
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It quells drone riots.

	04-02-2004 04:08									#73
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk What exactly does nerve stapling do, anyway? No. NOT in game terms, I understand those.

The jury is out on that one. My interpretation is that it removes the will to resist and makes the Drones easier to control. The Dragon Sun novel implies that it's nothing so sophisticated and merely inflicts horrendous pain, making the victim unable to fight (or do anything else for that matter).

	04-02-2004 06:36									#74
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I imagine it selectively destroys part of the brain making the victim more like a genejack and "nerve staple" is just a fearsome name for the procedure. If the victim recovers it cannot be done again because destroying more of the brain would kill or totally handicap them, hence resistence.

	04-02-2004 14:44									#75
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Listen to the quote for the research hospital (I think). It sounds like it damages or removes part of the brain.

	04-02-2004 14:48									#76
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I think it terminates some links between different parts of the brain - making it impossible for the victim to undestand meaning of rebelling.

	04-02-2004 15:37									#77
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It could also possibly be a small eletronic device planted into the victims brain or other part of the nervous system that can be used to deliver unbearable pain if the victim is being unco-operative. Considering that it is a low tech procedure this is probably quite likely.

	04-02-2004 19:48									#78
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Mayhap I have, Miss HongHu. The idea doesn't appear to bother me, though.

	05-02-2004 04:22									#79
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If they can make mind control probes, maybe its like that?

	05-02-2004 08:32									#80
	The Wonders of Post-Modern Medicine... OR How To Kill Your Neighbor's Brain Full PM-box? Change here!

My understanding of Nerve Stapling, based on the effects it generates (A complete lack of ability to rebel) and the in-game descriptions, as well as the in game art and the very name, is this...

It selectively destroys certain neural pathways, those specifically linked to higher reasoning and to individuality, in effect removing from the subject all trace of personality or intelligence, the side effect (and, not coincidentally, the DESIRED effect) of which being that the person is a fanatically loyal (If not particularly intelligent) worker completely incapable of the reasoning, planning, forethought, or so-called "spark of life" necessary to consider rebellion.., I believe it is known as "nerve stapling" because it involves, not unlike certain cosmetic procedures, "pulling" the nerve and "stapling" them into the right places, to prevent the brain from regenerating the lost pathways, in effect, convincing the brain that there was nothing there to regenerate in the first place.

Of course, I am no expert, not being a University Provost and not having grafted half of my body into a sentient computer, but I believe this is a sufficient explanation of the procedure and its results... I also believe it is accomplishable through only slightly post-modern technology. All we'd need to do it today is a more thorough uunderstanding of how, exactly, the brain works and how to not kill the subject in the process.

Ahem.

I'm going back to my killing aliens now.

	06-02-2004 02:18									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Starfarer All we'd need to do it today is a more thorough uunderstanding of how, exactly, the brain works and how to not kill the subject in the process.

Oh, is that all?

	06-02-2004 03:14									#82
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I thought we have lobotomy?

	06-02-2004 03:45									#83
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Lobotomy? I beg your pardon. I believe you mean: "Instant Social Conversion". It is only put to use in case a chap is unmutual and disharmonius.

Atherholt Trauma Test?

	17-02-2004 15:40									#84
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The reaserch hospital quote definately makes it sound like an advanced form of lobotomy, not something that is intended to inflict pain -- its horrific, but for other reasons.

The fact that it can be done to large numbers of people fairly quickly discounts it being an invasive proceedure, the fact that it targets talents as well as drones suggests that it is indiscriminate, and the fact that it can affect an entire base in riot suggests that it can even be used on rampaging mobs, while they're rampaging.

Given that, I'm thinking that the "staple" is actually a non-lethal nerve gas, that is flushed into the base air supply.

	19-02-2004 00:04									#85
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk What exactly does nerve stapling do, anyway? No. NOT in game terms, I understand those.

Ever seen the end of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest? It's kind of like that except there's no Chief to smother the rebellious drones so they can all get back to work in the borehole mines!

Interesting thread overall though. I don't recall ever playing the hive with any dedication. I get so many games where the startup is so horrible that I'm doomed from turn one and I think I've had a couple like that w/ the Hive. Overall, I can respect his philosophy even though I don't think it syncs with human nature...of course I guess that's why they invented nerve stapling eh? Of course, I also think that the person who made the comment about people following these ideologies because they were born and raised with them had a good point. "Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious." (Orwell, 1984) Mwuhaahaa


Oh...and as for the whole screaming thing... Firaxis should have made a movie specifically for Yang's defeat instead of using that stock one. Long Live the Chairman (so I can have my fun with him in his punishment sphere)!

Feyd

	19-02-2004 01:13									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Feyd Long Live the Chairman (so I can have my fun with him in his punishment sphere)! Feyd

	19-02-2004 01:32									#87
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As a tried-and-true Gaian, I have to admit (**shudder!**) that I have played the Hive, and that I...liked it. But, my Yang was true to his brighter/higher quotes, pursuing a non-aggressive and benevolent (if authoritarian) rule.

Of the factions, Yang has almost as much 'flavor' as Dee does, for me at least. His mindset is challenging unless you like atrocities and punishment spheres, and think that having the State stomp on the face of humanity forever is a good thing (ala Orwell's 1984).

But, after toying with the good and neutral factions (leaving Miriam and the aliens untried) I find I can go home again: Gaia's Landing.

Hydro

	19-02-2004 04:17									#88
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Don't deny it, Hydro. Deidre is just as militant as Yang, perhaps even moreso. While Yang and Miriam may both be overtly aggressive, I've found that Dee quietly builds up her forces and when the two finish slugging it out, she comes in to reap the spoils.

While I have to say "visiting" Dee is fun and its great to have a high Ecology bonus, I prefer the caverns of the Hive.

	19-02-2004 06:21									#89
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FC - militant, yes. The key is how that militancy is expressed, and the desired end of that militancy. In my mind, for Yang it is no holds barred, and nothing is off limits. Planet buster? Sure! Nerve stapling? Of course! Gas attacks? Naturally!

After these types of atrocities have rendered Yang's opponents dead, or safely enslaved, they have a bleak life of unending toil, the subservience of all individuality to Yang's bleak vision for humanity.

That, in the end, is what I object to. I much prefer a leader that strives for ideals that include democracy (of some form), and a society where the individual is recognized as valuable, and where that individual can strive for the betterment of the whole. In Yang's anti-utopia the individual has no more importance than a cell: In other words - none.

I would hate to see the future of humanity to be determined by a future Saddam Hussein, Hitler, Stalin, or Mao. Yang is perfectly frightening since he combines his stark genius with the most horrific features of the aforementioned leaders: ruthlessness and amorality.

A counter argument is that any faction can be portrayed as ruthless and amoral, and I have no doubt that in MP you have to or you die (like a stuck pig). However, the agendas of the factions are illuminating, as are the quotes, in describing means and objectives. By the measure Yang stands out of the original seven, and he is fascinating in a Hannibal Lector sort of way.

	19-02-2004 06:49									#90
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hah... now now, Yang considers individuals valuable.

...In the sense that in large numbers they make wonderfultools and are very fun to tyrranize...

Ahem.

*Runs like hell 'fore the Hivers try to kill me*