09-02-2004 21:21									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Cruddy, to suggest the Brits or event the Americans were fighting Hitler to save the lives of the Jews is more than a bit revisionist.

Details of the Holocaust were very vague at the time and solid information kept within a very tight circle. It wasn't a stated war aim as such.

The fact remains I don't hear many Jewish people complaining about the behaviour of Bomber Command during WW2.

I suggest you reconsider your position - would you have preferred the 3rd Reich to have been stronger for longer or been quickly beaten into submission?

You are overlooking the consequences of the "Bomber Harris was a total villain" argument.

Yes he was - and thank God he was.

	09-02-2004 21:52									#92
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I think the US bombing campaign, conducted against military targets like oil production and ball bearing plants, was effective. Even the Nazi's say that it was the cause of their ultimate defeat.

None of them say that bombing the cities cost them the war.

	09-02-2004 22:03									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I think the US bombing campaign, conducted against military targets like oil production and ball bearing plants, was effective.

Ah, but most of that took place after Overlord, didn't it?

quote: Originally posted by Ned Even the Nazi's say that it was the cause of their ultimate defeat.

Well, Speer certainly didn't - he reckoned 6 more raids on the scale of the Hamburg effort would have ended the war.

quote: Originally posted by Ned None of them say that bombing the cities cost them the war.

See above for why this is just plain WRONG.

	09-02-2004 22:32									#94
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Well, Cruddy, give me a link to the Speer quote. I'll reconsider.

	09-02-2004 22:38									#95
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It's in his autobiography - I'd recommend reading the whole lot rather than a link. He probably exaggerated a fair bit... but try it.

Could you give me another Nazi quote that gives the benefit of Allied success to the US bombing campaign?

	10-02-2004 05:13									#96
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Cruddy, Here is PDF file from a July 1945 Allied report of the German high command and industrial leaders as to why they lost the war.

Every one of them cited Allied air power as decisive. They particually cited the stategic bombing of oil, ball bearing and railroads.

There is not one single mention of area bombing of cities. In fact, Georing suggest that bombing cities was a wasted effort by the allies, the single aspect of the allied air war that was ineffective.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/docs/Nazis.pdf

	11-02-2004 22:10									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Ned ...There is not one single mention of area bombing of cities. In fact, Georing suggest that bombing cities was a wasted effort by the allies, the single aspect of the allied air war that was ineffective. http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/docs/Nazis.pdf

BULLSHIT

quote: The Director of German Steel combine: "If you had started bombing a year later, the Westwall would never have been pierced... The virtual flattening of the great steel city of Dusseldorf, Germany's Pittsburg, contributed at least 50 percent of the collapse of the German war effort."

Hoist by your own petard!

	11-02-2004 22:40									#98
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Cruddy, maybe.

But, were the steel mills flattened by American bombers or by British bombers?

	11-02-2004 22:42									#99
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Does it matter - the city got flattened alongside the steel mills.

I can't help thinking that your ideas of "precision" bombing are not really very precise...

And who took out Peenemunde? A strategic target of the highest order.

	11-02-2004 22:48									#100
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Cruddy, to the extent the Brits engaged in daylight bombing, they were effective.

We need to find out more about Dusseldorf.

	11-02-2004 23:06									#101
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Well, if you really want to do your own analysis, fine.

Maybe 1% of Brits really think about the subject. About the same proportion do any thinking...

If you seek reason and sanity, war is the last place to find it.

But if you want the official Brit line then...

http://www.rafbombercommand.com/

	11-02-2004 23:14									#102
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Cruddy, thanks for the link. I suggest we move on to different topics unless the Germans raise the issue and begin to demand an apology.

	11-02-2004 23:15									#103
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OK moderators, please kill this thread before it gains undead status.