30-08-2004 01:32									#61
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Well thanks for letting us know.

Who is supposed to engage CDG?

This is the time to do it you know.

	31-08-2004 21:12									#62
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NM was ambassador after vander disappeared for a while. Actually I'm not sure if vander has returned or not.

	01-09-2004 05:24									#63
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Well, that doesn't mean we shouldn't at least get the ball rolling on a message to send to CDG.

IMHO, we need to send one soon, and with these three important points:

1. the settler issue. Politely ask where he's headed, just out of curiosity or something.

2. the possibilty of a road. Run the idea of a jointly-constructed invasion road by CDG, for the purpose of 'lux trading.' State that it's purely early speculation here.

3. the PAL situation. This is a bit iffy - I don't know how much CDG thinks we know about them and PAL. If we think it isn't that much, chance a paragraph asking about what's going on between them and PAL. State that we were a bit alarmed to see such a mass of troops at the Fjord/Pumpkinland border (remember, our archer is there, and can see the mess). Tell them we haven't heard anything about it from PAL, so as to make it seem that we're siding with them on the issue. Perhaps even offer to play the role of a mediator...

This isn't too much, I hope. Either myself or con (in the apparent absence of our ambassadors) can draft something and get an approved message dispatched in 24-36 hours, I think...

	01-09-2004 05:35									#64
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Go ahead Oct_X, I still need to work on the PAL reply from F-P's email last weekend and work has not been cooperating.

Just let CDG know your a consul and filling in for Nuke master while he is in the bathroom

	01-09-2004 05:51									#65
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I just had a thought (ya I know RARE occurance )

I wouldn't offer to mediate just yet.

1. We dont REALLY know whats going on yet, get it?

2. Let them ask to mediate because Im not sure I want to go there, for instance just how are we going to play that with PAL? It adds up to more fabrications, and sticking to our story with CDG has not been our strong point thus far

	02-09-2004 09:52									#66
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You're probably right, con. Best not to seem too eager.

Just a reminder: Tell PAL about the our changed iron plans. Offer to give back the slave when the road to the iron is complete.

And, a proposed note to CDG:

quote: Our southernly friends of the naiton of Eludicia: Greetings from Apolyton! We hope this message finds the Creative Design Group well. Unfortunately, it's been a while since our last contact, and in that period, some issues have arisen that need discussing. Our Foreign Affairs Ministry seems to be sleepy as of late: Our ambassador to your fair nation, Nuclear Master, seems to be taking a nap somewhere. First off, we notices that an Elucidian settler is approaching the City of Olympus. We wish to know, out of curiosity, what his final destination is. We might need to update our city placement maps to accomadate your new city. Second, we're wondering if Elucidia would be interested in the creation of a road joining our two great empires, with both nations constructing about half of the road itself. This road would be used for the trading of luxuries when and if such deals are worked out in the future. This proposal, at least on the Apolytonian side, is only preliminary. What are the thoughts of CDG on such a matter? And, finally, we come to the matter of the relations between CDG and the People's Army of the Ladder. An Apolytonian archer in the area of Pumpkinland and Sven Fjord has observed a rather disturbing build up of units. We're wondering what's going on over here. Apolyton hasn't heard anything about this situation from PAL, though our best guess is that is has something to do with the ivory in that vicinity. Well, that's about all we have to say at the moment. We await CDG's reply, as well as the oppertunity to discuss new issues that CDG wishes to bring up. Thank you from your northerly neighbors, ~Octavian X Consul of Apolyton

Well, thoughts? I'll send this off in about 24 hours, I think.

And, who/how/where do I send this to at CDG? I don't have the contact info in front of me right atm...

	02-09-2004 18:54									#67
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Looks good, thats the approach I would take.

I think Louis XXX's email is in our Info thread.

If not its posted at CDG at the beginning of the turn tracker thread, I believe.

	02-09-2004 21:31									#68
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quote: First off, we notices that an Elucidian settler is approaching the City of Olympus. We wish to know, out of curiosity, what his final destination is. We might need to update our city placement maps to accomadate your new city.

My suggestion is to change it to:

"First off, we notices that an Elucidian settler is approaching the City of Olympus. We have plans to build a city between Olympus and Naked Aphrodite, and we need to make sure that our plans do not conflict with your plans. Please let us know where you plan to build your new city."

Why? I think it's good to be polite, but I don't think we should act TOO nice towards CDG. It just seems funny. It's normal to expect that if you and an ally were building cities in the same area, you'd want to cross check with each other your plans and then discuss on who has the best plan. If you thought your plan was better you'd argue for it. You'd ask your ally "don't build here, we want to put a city here." It's rare that you'd roll over and let them build wherever they want, especially with a team like ours that plans things in advance.

So let's be open to them and try to engage them in dialogue about city placement, as an actual ally would do.

Oh, and we're not their northern neighbors, we're their western neighbors.

--Togas

	03-09-2004 01:26									#69
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Agree with togas. Actually, I would be more foreceful. I would tell them that if they did try and settler there, that a large number of our people are talking about taking the 2 slaves from them prior to their being able to build the city as it would "ruin our long term city placement stratagy". But that is just me. They know as well as we do that this game is about war, so they shouldn't be surprised if one of their neighbors acts aggressave in defending what it perceives as theirs.

	03-09-2004 04:32									#70
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I say stick with the Togas plan. Its a good middle of the road approach that generates questions in the collective mind of CDG which ultimately buys us time.

less than 20 turns until this charade is over.

	03-09-2004 08:40									#71
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Togas' suggested changes were made, and the message was sent to CDG at the team address listed in the info thread.

	04-09-2004 08:52									#72
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quote: 1. The exact location of the city near Olympus, Naked Aphrodite, and 2 of your warriors hasn't been determined definately. I'm willing to be flexible, and even am willing to consider moving down to the coast if I have to. The only thing that is certain is the wish to place the settler in that area, rather than move to a completely different location on the map. Maybe you could tell me where you wish to build the city, and I'll try to adjust/negotiate an agreeable location? I am interested in figuring out a specific border, if you want. 2. I am willing to consider a road, but maybe not at this moment. One thing to work out ahead of time would be any luxury trade, so whether or not any trade is possible is something to be discussed. Aside from one ivory, I don't know of any luxuries you have. Its possible we have Furs to trade, though. 3. Although it does have something to do with the ivory, I don't think the situation with the People's Army of the Ladder will lead to armed conflict (at least, I hope it won't). Right now, I'd call it a minor annoyance. A few turns ago, I might have called it more, but things seem to have been worked out fairly favorably for both sides. On a final note, I would like to ask if you would have an interest in coordinating future research paths, to ensure we don't go after the same thing. Hope that clears things up Sincerely, Louis XXIV Foreign Minister of Elucidia

Copied in the diplo thread.

Still, interesting. For one, it sounds like their FM has a lot of power, judging by the way he states things...

	05-09-2004 20:46									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Octavian X interesting. For one, it sounds like their FM has a lot of power, judging by the way he states things...

Power can be a self illusion too.

Maybe with M_REX becoming less active some others have stepped up and taken power.

Hard to tell. Anybody know this guy? Louis XXIV?

Wheres GF when you need him......

	05-09-2004 21:26									#74
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Eh - Louis was a CDG member we dealt with a little in the PtW game before their team was eliminated.

What is there to know really?

	05-09-2004 22:06									#75
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Eh - Louis was a CDG member we dealt with a little in the PtW game before their team was eliminated. What is there to know really?

"The better you know your enemy the easier it is to kill him."

I believe that was Sun Tzu.

Also the more you know someone the easier it si deal with them diplomatically.

Thats why Ive been BSing with F-P since last October.

	06-09-2004 04:12									#76
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He was the ambassador to APO for CDG when I was the ambassador to them. He's easy to get along with and doesn't BS much.

	07-09-2004 00:26									#77
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Reply to him very soon. We need to settle this settler thing.

They need to know that we have plans to build a city directly between Naked, Olympus, and Hypnos. Tell them exactly where the site is: 1-1 from (Ares? Warrior Sentry on Mountain). We have no objection to them building a city anywhere, so long as it is 3 tiles or more from one of our cities.

Do not tell them that where the settler is right now, he's too close, and he's going to have to move backward. Let them come to that conclusion themselves.

Let them know that we have wines, 2 of them. We'd be happy to trade them wines for furs. We could get a road up after we've both built our border cities, and then connect them. What do they think?

Techwise, we're working on Currency. Ask them what they're working on and leave it at that. Make it appear that we want a tech trade, but don't push it very much. Make them do the heavy diplomatic work for one to happen, and given their lazy tendencies, it probably won't, which is fine by us.

--Togas

	07-09-2004 07:32									#78
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quote: It is our turn, and we still need to know where you intend to build a city between Olympus and NA. Our plan right now is to build in two possible locations. NW,NW,NW (possibly NW,NW,W) of Possumopolis and N,NW,NW of Minesota. I believe that will still allow you to build a city in that region. If our building strategy conflicts with yours in some way, please let us know, so this can be worked out. Thank You Sincerely, Louis XXIV Foreign Minister of Elucidia (and pretty happy I only will have to do that).

New message from CDG, recieved six hours ago. Quick, someone give me a good 'next city location.'

Or, I'm tempted just to tell them not to worry about it. Something along the lines of 'Since were such good friends, you guys go ahead and pick some nice spots for yourself...'

	07-09-2004 19:20									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Octavian X Or, I'm tempted just to tell them not to worry about it. Something along the lines of 'Since were such good friends, you guys go ahead and pick some nice spots for yourself...'

...so we can take it 20 turns from now.

	08-09-2004 00:48									#80
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These are their three proposals.

I prefer that they build on white (NW, NW, W of Possum). It keeps them off horses, makes it VERY easy to connect them to our road network, and it keeps them away from Olympus, as we'll want to build cities around that site at about a 4-tile spread in the future.

--Togas

	08-09-2004 02:16									#81
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They don't have very good idea on where to put cities... this is disgusting.

I mean, I'm no builder, but even I am sickened by their blue city.

	08-09-2004 18:47									#82
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OCT_X, did you get back to them on these issues?

Im kind of swamped with work this week but let me know if you need some help here.

	08-09-2004 18:50									#83
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The reason why we recommend the white is because it looks like right now in the immediate future it will not conflict with our REX plans. It also of course is nicer then the site next to it because of course they are a seafaring Civ and get the commerce bonus for a coastal tile.

Tell them thats a good short term solution and will give us some time to figure out how we will divide up the remaining space between our Civ's. (ie, we need time to study the border possibilities ) (more delay)

	28-09-2004 23:32									#84
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