07-02-2004 17:32									#31
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Having re-introduced navigation into the curriculum at Prussian military schools (originally cut as an economy measure - duh!) the dispatches for the Russians have been sent in the correct direction this time.

The Prussians will have nationalism available to trade or sell on their next turn. Offers are invited, preferably techs otherwise substantial amounts of gold will be demanded. Make your bids, gentlemen.

	07-02-2004 17:50									#32
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To UberKrux.

	07-02-2004 22:15									#33
	Re: Napoleonic Conquest Turn Thread Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D Will golden ages be triggered by any/all of our UUs?

I've been playing the SP version, first as France then as Prussia. I am not pleased to discover that neither Prussia nor Spain can get a GA as none of their units are flagged for one.

English - Man-o-War
France - Voltigeur
Russia - Cossack
Ottomans - Sipahi
Austria - Hussar

are all flagged. I have checked both the SP and MP version through the editor. I will be editing my SP version and trying another game.

I am not happy about asking for a restart as we have got several turns under our belts but not being able to get a 20 turn GA in a 96 turn scenario is a big handicap. I would like to hear what Uber thinks about this but I am pretty PO'd and this has really taken the enjoyment out of it knowing it is such a tough situation for the civ I chose.

	07-02-2004 22:23									#34
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paddy

	07-02-2004 22:34									#35
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no golden age eh? that sucks

i don't think a restart is in order though. what would we do anywyay, give us a UU?

	07-02-2004 23:32									#36
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I have no prob with a restart. You can go into Mobilization if your a war though.

	08-02-2004 00:34									#37
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I am willing to restart for this situation.

played the save regardlass and forwarded to Rommell...

Captain Emre most disturbed by these events....

	08-02-2004 02:32									#38
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Having had a little time to think about this I feel sure it is a mistake in the original biq file. The civilopaedia and the intro text suggest every playable civ should have a GA triggering UU. If I had known it was like this I would either have not taken Prussia or would have suggested editing the biq file.

I am asking for a restart with the biq file edited to give Prussian and Spanish UU's that can trigger a GA. I can make these changes and set the game off again.

For Spain the UU is the soldado, a 3.4.1 second level infantry unit.

For Prussia there are 2 UU's. The fusilier, a second level 4.4.1 infantry unit, and the cuirassier, a 5.4.2 cavalry unit.

I would suggest flagging the soldado and fusilier to trigger a GA.

Mobilisation is not the same. It doesn't allow building city improvements. Does anyone know if you get the bonus for mobilisation and for a GA at the same time?

I don't like asking this but I am not prepared to be penalised because someone didn't put the scenario together properly.

Your opinions please.

	08-02-2004 03:51									#39
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the spanish UU should obviously be the "liberador", a 50.50.20 cavalry unit costing 1 shield, with blitz, all as roads, stealth, and teleportation.

	08-02-2004 04:01									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Uber KruX the spanish UU should obviously be the "liberador", a 50.50.20 cavalry unit costing 1 shield, with blitz, all as roads, stealth, and teleportation.

You forgot "hidden nationality" so that you could skip the inconvenience of actually having to go to war.

	08-02-2004 04:43									#41
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oh excellent...

can I have three units of Modern Armour per city... all painted a soft blue...

	08-02-2004 05:58									#42
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I wouldn't mind a restart.

I'm not convinced there's any problem with the scenario, though. Going by the histories included, Spain had been in decline since the time of the Armada, and Prussia never was an all-around powerhouse nation, gaining military conquests mostly at the expense of the rest of it's culture (i.e. mobilization). There's many other inequities between the powers in the game, meant to reflect the historical situation rather than provide a level playing field. The only mention of a GA I found was the generic civilopedia page, unmodified for the scenario.

If we modify the biq, why wouldn't all UUs receive GA flags?

	08-02-2004 07:53									#43
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV You forgot "hidden nationality" so that you could skip the inconvenience of actually having to go to war.

i think the "causes GA" and "hidden nationality" flags conflict.

	08-02-2004 16:20									#44
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On closer inspection it doesn't say specifically that all civs or all UU's in this scenario trigger a GA. However I am not aware of another scenario where only some of the playable civs can get a GA (I haven't played either of the Rome scenarios though).

I don't think the historical argument holds up. The Ottomans can have a GA but the Ottoman empire was well past its best by this date. If you were to claim a historic period for a Prussian GA it would probably be the Seven Years War or the mid 19th C, both a lot closer to the time of this scenario.

Apologies but I really feel quite strongly about this so I have taken the liberty of a restart. The fusilier and soldado are now flagged to start a GA. The other 3 human player civs can trigger a GA with their cavalry unit.

Prussia will have Nationalism in 5 turns and be prepared to trade it.

Jan 1800 dispatched by courier to the Russian border (we now teach geography in Prussian schools ).

	08-02-2004 21:45									#45
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV Having had a little time to think about this I feel sure it is a mistake in the original biq file. The civilopaedia and the intro text suggest every playable civ should have a GA triggering UU. If I had known it was like this I would either have not taken Prussia or would have suggested editing the biq file. I am asking for a restart with the biq file edited to give Prussian and Spanish UU's that can trigger a GA. I can make these changes and set the game off again. For Spain the UU is the soldado, a 3.4.1 second level infantry unit. For Prussia there are 2 UU's. The fusilier, a second level 4.4.1 infantry unit, and the cuirassier, a 5.4.2 cavalry unit. I would suggest flagging the soldado and fusilier to trigger a GA. Mobilisation is not the same. It doesn't allow building city improvements. Does anyone know if you get the bonus for mobilisation and for a GA at the same time? I don't like asking this but I am not prepared to be penalised because someone didn't put the scenario together properly. Your opinions please.

I'm out. I can easily see why you would want to give each civ a unit to trigger its GA, I agree with that.

But adding new units and adjusting the stats is going overboard. The scenario was done to be balanced and I have it played it enough to know it these changes will throw it off or not.

I do not like changing the Mobilization rules either.

	08-02-2004 22:01									#46
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I think there is some misunderstanding here. The only changes I have made are to flag the soldado and fusilier to trigger a GA. I have changed nothing else - no unit stats, rules or anything.

No civ has more than 1 unit that can trigger its GA. My comment about mobilisation was a question about its effects, not a proposal to change anything.

I do not wish to cause a problem. If anyone refuses to play with the changes I will carry on with the original game. I am not happy with that but I would rather play that way than lose the whole thing.

	08-02-2004 22:04									#47
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I don't have a problem with that then, I just thought you had made all the changes you had stated in your post.

Oh, and YES, the shield bonus from Mobilization and Golden Age do stack.

	08-02-2004 23:30									#48
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To UberKrux.

Same deals and tech trades as last time?

	09-02-2004 00:04									#49
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to everyone's favorite scot.

	09-02-2004 00:56									#50
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quote: Originally posted by CerberusIV I don't think the historical argument holds up. The Ottomans can have a GA but the Ottoman empire was well past its best by this date. If you were to claim a historic period for a Prussian GA it would probably be the Seven Years War or the mid 19th C, both a lot closer to the time of this scenario. Apologies but I really feel quite strongly about this so I have taken the liberty of a restart.

I don't know a whole lot about European history in this period, but going by the scenario author's descriptions, I think the scenario functions as intended. The Ottomans were on their way out at the time, but they were a long established empire with a significant cultural base facing the whole of Christian Europe. If Paddy were to roleplay the religious aspects to the hilt, he could very well have a golden age and still lose ground. The Ottomans also survived another century, and passed a cultural inheritance on the Turkish Republic. Prussia is described purely in terms of its military and geography; "Yet, despite these territorial gains, Prussia remained a relatively poor nation, whose resources were primarily dedicated to the betterment of its army". Sounds alot more like any national boom would be the result of mobilization rather than a GA.

No need to apologize for the restart, I don't mind making the game more competetive. I'm just saying I don't think this is something Firaxis/Breakaway screwed up.

Anyway, let's rumble...

	09-02-2004 03:22									#51
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And so it was that Captain Emre and his troop were again encamped at the Ottoman - Austrian border.

The small village had played host to many such delegations over the centuries past. They brought forth warm food and hot drink. The Captain even allowed the taking of the local Grappa. A liquid of great fire.

Ahh, he thought, here they come. These Hussars sure do look the part in their uniforms.

The Hussar Captain dismounts with great flair.

Yet again Diplomatic words are passed along by both sides.

Papers and satchels are exchanged.

With this transaction completed, a toast to the two Lords of their fine lands is proposed.

The Austrian troop dismounts, and the various men take the small cups, the drink is taken and a cheer is raised by both sides.

Here the Austrians remount, and with the style of great horsemen, they wheel their horses and head back to their Lord.

Captain Emre looks to the sky, and ponders a this moment, this is becoming a regular occurance! My brother should be here with a small Inn.

With a sharp whistle, he calls his troop to order.

"Ok lads, lets us be off to Mostar again!"

"Sir, did we not go down to Mostar only in the last weeks?"

"Yes surely we did... hmmm. Lets us go there again... lets us ride."

	09-02-2004 05:15									#52
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Lt. Ferencsik galloped north into a bitter March wind, destined for Prussia. He paused at the crest of the hill, and reflected "These winds are heavy with promise of war...". The chill of dejavu rolled down his spine as he reeled his mount about and continued on his way toward Liepzig.

	10-02-2004 01:42									#53
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Thanks for all allowing the change and restart. Given the quality of the opposition I am rather pleased to at least have the chance of a GA.

Major von Kalmbach was in a pensive mood as he led his squadron of cuirassiers out of Berlin onto the road east to Konigsberg. He had been entrusted with establishing a regular courier route to rendezvous with a cossack troop on the border with Russia by General Blucher personally. With the rise of French power to the west this could only mean that europe was on the road to war again.

When his adjutant commented on the mildness of the weather for March the Major was reminded of his father's comment "Frederick the Great always welcomed an early spring as it meant a longer campaigning season".

	10-02-2004 05:05									#54
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To UberKrux.

	10-02-2004 08:46									#55
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and again Captain Emre attends to his post at the border, ready to hand off the disptaches to thr Austrians

	10-02-2004 10:41									#56
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Prince Franz von Lobkowitz walked away from the chance meeting with his friend Capt. Ferencsik slightly disturbed. What was so important about his trip to Prussia that Janos had to cut short a conversation with the Prince? No news had been heard of Napoleon's attack on Milan in months. Spring was dawning and the workers were busy toiling in the fields. All seemed right with the world.

The sound of a piano down the hall jarred his memory of the musicain he had recently met, Luwig. The nagging doubts retreated to the back of his mind as he again headed off for the symphony hall and the evening's concert.

	10-02-2004 22:57									#57
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The hard riding Prussian Cuirassiers deliver a further dispatch to Moscow at the border.

	11-02-2004 07:08									#58
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To UberKrux.

	11-02-2004 09:02									#59
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Captain Emre and his valiant Troop again meet with their Austrian Counterparts... Then both parties turn and head back to their respective leaders.

	11-02-2004 10:44									#60
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Capt. Ferencsik collapsed on his cot upon returning from Prussia. The July heat was wearing on him. "Junge, do ve need a postal sahvice..."