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Oncle Boris
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Once in a brown moon
Aug 2001
time: 00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
Regarding the landmines, the main issue is the DMZ in Korea. There are no civilians there at all, and the mines are especially helpful for defending the area. But thanks for doing your due diligence. And the drama helped too. 
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Aren't the mines already there? Just leave them and stop producing more.
quote:
And so, when is Europe going to use its miraculous diplomacy powers to solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? Well, I'm waiting... |
Diplomacy power requires, at its root, to be backed by military and economic power. As things are right now, only the US has them. And BTW, most UN resolutions to try something for the peace came from Europe, and were blocked by US veto. It is in fact America that is hindering the 'European diplomatic force', as you call it.
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Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Aren't the mines already there? Just leave them and stop producing more. |
Well duh.
quote:
Diplomacy power requires, at its root, to be backed by military and economic power. As things are right now, only the US has them. And BTW, most UN resolutions to try something for the peace came from Europe, and were blocked by US veto. It is in fact America that is hindering the 'European diplomatic force', as you call it. |
Europe can do things outside of the UN to try a diplomatic solution. NEVER has there been a diplomatic leadership role taken until THIS WEEK. And THAT was only because of what happened in Madrid. Talk about self-interest!!!
Secondly what happened to all this, "Europe doesn't ever want to see war again," crap I'm always hearing? But then you tell me the diplomacy has to be backed by military force? So when the US takes military action you will whine and complain? But you find the threat the US provides highly convenient and the US should use it?
Secondly, the one block that has the most economic and military power in the entire world next to the US is Europe.
The difference is that the USA will actually use military force. Europe has the military force but won't use it. It's alot easier for you all to just let the US do it for you.
I really don't know WHAT the hell you want.
You Eurocoms if you want to go change the world go do it and stop complaining. Eurocoms definition of leadership is simply, "the US is wrong." Well why not try your own damn plan for once????
And invading to control the chocolate supply doesn't count.
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:34
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Imran - quote:
Which was a total misunderstanding of the debate entirely, which is what I took issue with. |
You took issue with my comparison between taxes and UN membership. You did not say my comment was unrelated to the debate. Hell, I didn't even enter into a debate about whether or not the US was paying enough money, just that the US pays more in blood. You haven't been debating that point... Also, look at the title of thread before complaining that my comment was unrelated to "the debate".
quote:
Taxes and membership dues are entirely non similar. |
They are to people who don't want to be members but are forced, hence my comment about it being involuntary.
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You can leave with membership dues, but not with taxes, which is the analogy is wrong. |
I can't leave the UN, so the taxes I'm forced to pay so others can support the UN makes my "participation" involuntary. If you didn't understand my point then, you should by now so why do you keep up with this nonsense?
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Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:34
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Basically the French and Italians sent "peacekeepers" to the Ivory Coast to intervene in the uprising/civil war going on there.
However, I can't find the map, but it was from some French Foreign Ministry government site, where they showed the units stationed there, and every Euro unit just "happened" to be stationed where the cocoa fields were.
About half of the world's cocoa comes from the Ivory Coast.
I find the Europeans who complain about the US invading Iraq to gain oil particularly hypocritical, when here we have a BLATANT attempt to secure the cocao supply which mainland Europe clearly has a vested interest in protecting.
Last edited by Ted Striker on 22-03-2004 at 10:37
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Oncle Boris
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Once in a brown moon
Aug 2001
time: 00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
Well duh.
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Admit the truth, Ted. Personnel mines are outdated and of limited military use. I doubt that the mines in the Korea DMZ are anti-personnel, but probably anti-tank or anti-vehicle or something. If that's so important for you, then keep existing stocks for the Korea DMZ and support the ban. That'll be a huge plus for humanity, when the dumbass guerillas around the world stop screwing the world with them.
And we're not in 1923 anymore. Any massive crossing of the border with plain infantry would result in a genocide.
quote:
Europe can do things outside of the UN to try a diplomatic solution. NEVER has there been a diplomatic leadership role taken until THIS WEEK. And THAT was only because of what happened in Madrid. Talk about self-interest!!!
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Yeah, Europe has never undetaken diplomatic talks.
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Secondly what happened to all this, "Europe doesn't ever want to see war again," crap I'm always hearing? But then you tell me the diplomacy has to be backed by military force? So when the US takes military action you will whine and complain? But you find the threat the US provides highly convenient and the US should use it?
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In an ideal world, no one would have a military and no one would need it. Things are not like this, and yes, I do believe that it's OK to project power (AFAIK only Britain and France can do this except America) when we need to. I mean, when it's NEEDED, not when Hallicheney wants some cash.
I have nothing about the US military; I'm against how it is being used.
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Secondly, the one block that has the most economic and military power in the entire world next to the US is Europe.
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They don't speak in an unified voice, and won't do so for the next 25 years at least.
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The difference is that the USA will actually use military force. Europe has the military force but won't use it. It's alot easier for you all to just let the US do it for you.
I really don't know WHAT the hell you want.
You Eurocoms if you want to go change the world go do it and stop complaining. Eurocoms definition of leadership is simply, "the US is wrong." Well why not try your own damn plan for once????
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You really think France or England could have sustained the war against Saddam by themselves? Remember, these countries have about 1/10 of your military budget and 1/6 of your GDP, and you're already having trouble paying for Iraq. Besides, it's not like going to Iraq was a good idea in the first place.
How would you like France and Germany invading Israel to force the diplomatic proposals that were rejected by US veto? and maybe arrest Sharon for trial at the Hague, while we're at it? 
Instead of whining at Europe's lack of power, why don't you just agree that if America was just a little more intelligent with its diplomacy, it could be collaborating with France and Germany? And that if you finally showed some balls towards Israel, the conflict would be solved in a matter of months. You tell Israel: peace treaty or we withdraw military aid. Kamikazes don't count for the next 6 months.
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And invading to control the chocolate supply doesn't count. |
It does count. Europe is not much better than America, usually. But at least their policy towards Israel and terrorism is more balanced.
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22-03-2004 06:39
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