07-04-2004 22:53									#91
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Geez -- there's too many cold-hearted, excessively rational Dr. Spocks on Apolyton who debate whether we should intervene against crimes against humanity.

No one has yet given a reason for doing so.

	07-04-2004 22:54									#92
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If it's not within the capacity of one or two nations to intervene, then organize a more effective intervention through the UN, or through some other international coalition force.

	07-04-2004 22:55									#93
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At least one Nation has learned from Rwanda. That's right, that's mine

In Ivory Coast, we had a new Rwanda in the making (and we could still have one if we don't pay attention). As the political turmoil began to be very worrisome, France sent troops to establish a buffer between the two parties. Then, France tried to establish a peace plan between two parties that were definitely not ready for compromise. We are being harshly criticized by both parties, and we are definitely not popular in Ivory Coast. But our action made it possible for two maximalist factions not to slaughter each other

(BTW, I don't know the details, but I think Britain has done something similar in Sierra Leone - I trust our Brits to give you more specifics)

	07-04-2004 22:55									#94
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc No one has yet given a reason for doing so.

The value of human life is immeasurable, isn't it??

	07-04-2004 22:57									#95
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun If it's not within the capacity of one or two nations to intervene, then organize a more effective intervention through the UN

It is precisely in the capacity of the UN. The UN is bound by its statuses to intervene wherever a genocide is acknowledged. That's why so many countries rejected the idea a genocide was going on. Yours included, of course.

	07-04-2004 23:00									#96
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun The value of human life is immeasurable, isn't it??

The events talked about in this thread should tell you otherwise.

	07-04-2004 23:13									#97
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Somalia happened less than a year before; everyone was unwilling to repeat the disgrace.

	08-04-2004 00:17									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor At least one Nation has learned from Rwanda. That's right, that's mine In Ivory Coast, we had a new Rwanda in the making (and we could still have one if we don't pay attention). As the political turmoil began to be very worrisome, France sent troops to establish a buffer between the two parties. Then, France tried to establish a peace plan between two parties that were definitely not ready for compromise. We are being harshly criticized by both parties, and we are definitely not popular in Ivory Coast. But our action made it possible for two maximalist factions not to slaughter each other

What?

France invaded a sovereign country and used its military might to impose its views of right and wrong upon the citizens of another country.

I'm stunned!












That doesnt mean I opposed that action. And yes I know that the UN and US eventually supported the action (some said as an effort to get french support for Iraq).

	08-04-2004 00:39									#99
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Stunned? 'Twas not exactly the first occasion in which France intervened in Africa ...

	08-04-2004 01:05									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor (BTW, I don't know the details, but I think Britain has done something similar in Sierra Leone - I trust our Brits to give you more specifics)

We certainly did. It was all getting very nasty, so they sent British troops in. They gave the militias a good slapping, and order was established.

That's how you stop genocides.

	08-04-2004 01:20									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: This was not a war. By definition it was a war... it simply also included genocide.

Trite.

So Germany, early in WWII, simultaneously fought a civil war against their Jewish population.



I don't recall ever reading about it that way...

	08-04-2004 01:23									#102
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There war no genocide. An American scholar (U of Md) said there wasn't and Americans are always right.

I'm guessing because of the high homicide death rates of blacks in US urban centres, White America probably believes they all died of natural causes.

	08-04-2004 01:45									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist Stunned? 'Twas not exactly the first occasion in which France intervened in Africa ...

there's no sarcasm smiley

	08-04-2004 03:05									#104
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara DD is right. That is what this is about. Why did we do nothing? And worse, we used it to justify an attack on a country were it was not occuring.

Because it would have taken too long to send a force of sufficient size. It was determined that not only would we have had to fly in every bit of equipment and provisions for our forces, but we would also have had to ship in fuel for our gas guzzling Humvies, Bradleys and M1A1s. None of the adjacent countries had the fuel to spare!

In the end didn't we send some covert "encouragement" to the Burundian fources that ultimately pacified Rwanda?

	08-04-2004 04:30									#105
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quote: So Germany, early in WWII, simultaneously fought a civil war against their Jewish population.

The Germans never declared a war against a Jewish state. A better comparision is the Japanese atrocities in WW2. It was genocidal (against the Chinese), but also part of the war.

	08-04-2004 04:32									#106
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I seem to remember hearing lately that Albright got wind of this before it blew up and made frantic calls to none other than Clark who promptly told her to kiss off.

	08-04-2004 07:49									#107
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc The events talked about in this thread should tell you otherwise.

So United States and other countries should base their foreign policies on statements posted on Apolyton?

	11-04-2004 01:20									#108
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun So United States and other countries should base their foreign policies on statements posted on Apolyton?

What makes you think they don't ?

	11-04-2004 01:24									#109
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That would undeniably explain alot ...

	12-04-2004 21:05									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: So Germany, early in WWII, simultaneously fought a civil war against their Jewish population. The Germans never declared a war against a Jewish state. A better comparision is the Japanese atrocities in WW2. It was genocidal (against the Chinese), but also part of the war.

No it isn't. Yes, the Hutu controlled dictatorship had been fighting a twenty year war with a Tutsi rebell group based in Uganda. What happened in Ruwanda was not a part of the war. During the peace negotiations, the plane carrying the presidents of Burundi and Ruwanda crashed, and the government in Ruwanda went berserk and systematically slaughtered 800,000 Ruwandan Tutsis. This was not something being done in occupied territory or as part of a war. It was a deliberately planned and orchestrated slaughter akin the Armenian genocide and the Holocaust.

It may be happening again, this time in Sudan. It looks pretty bad, but we need more information. If it is genocide, we need to intervene.

	12-04-2004 21:10									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Uncle Sparky What makes you think they don't ?

um . . . . . .