22-04-2004 22:33									#91
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quote: Originally posted by rah And there are a lot of people that have accused the US of supporting terrorism because of that past. That doesn't change anything in terms of Saddam.

Was the US under threat of revocation of cease fire agreement if they were caught, let alone advertising said support of terrorists?

Whoops sorry Rah wrong reply to quote.

	22-04-2004 22:33									#92
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Besides, if we had to thump someone, don't you agree that all things considered, he was a fairly good target?

You got me there.

	22-04-2004 22:40									#94
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The threadkill of the century...

All terrorist funding, islamic fascist, muslim extreamist, child molesting, genocide supporting, gas whoring, american hating, sand snorting, admitted alcholoic, self absorbed, monkey tammers should be "thumped"...

Oh, and who's this Joe Public? Is he next?

	22-04-2004 22:41									#95
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quote: Originally posted by rah And there are a lot of people that have accused the US of supporting terrorism because of that past. That doesn't change anything in terms of Saddam.

It does if one claims after the fact that such a level of support of terrorism counts as ties with terrorist and ties with terrorist are alone a reason to invade a state and depose the government.

	22-04-2004 22:46									#96
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quote: Originally posted by GePap It does if one claims after the fact that such a level of support of terrorism counts as ties with terrorist and ties with terrorist are alone a reason to invade a state and depose the government.

Nonsequitor. It was a clear and material breach of resolution amongst others.

	22-04-2004 22:49									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Oh, and who's this Joe Public? Is he next?

Yep.

	22-04-2004 22:52									#98
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GePap

quote: Originally posted by rah I agree that this alone does not justify an invasion,

So why are you still quoting me to argue about it?

	22-04-2004 22:52									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Nonsequitor. It was a clear and material breach of resolution amongst others.

Well, you would have to show me the lines, cause last time I lookd giving 25,000K after the fact to the families themselves, NOT Hamas the organization would not be violating anything.

And besides, now you are changing the arguement to one of UN sanctions-which brings a whole host of other problems.

	22-04-2004 22:53									#100
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quote: Originally posted by rah GePap So why are you still quoting me to argue about it?

You said what I said did not apply to Iraq-my response is that it does, in so far as it brings up problems with an adminstration-offered Causus Belli.

	22-04-2004 22:53									#101
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I hear that Joe Public is a facist, pink-o, commie who has 8 wives, hates america, and is working on making a model rocket in his basement... oh, he might be trying to get some plutonium and once searched for ricen on the internet!

	22-04-2004 23:13									#102
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GEPAP,
Quit trying to make more out of my point then was there.
My point was that HIS SUICIDE BOUNTY is proof that SADDAM supported terrorists, (and may have supported them more, since it's obvious where his sympathies are with regards to Isreal) BUT at the level proved, I wouldn't have considered it enough justification.

	22-04-2004 23:21									#103
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I wasn't a bounty, at least as far as I understand the premise of the money-which was to pay to support the families of suicide bombers. Given the Iraqli policy of collective family punishment by destroying homes, it seems to have been meant as a counter to that.

	22-04-2004 23:41									#104
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Now, who is splitting hairs. Do you really believe that Saddam was doing this out of the kindness of his heart?

	22-04-2004 23:45									#105
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Saddam cared about the Iraqis -- just as much as Latin American dictators care about their own people.

	22-04-2004 23:48									#106
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quote: Originally posted by rah Now, who is splitting hairs. Do you really believe that Saddam was doing this out of the kindness of his heart?

NO. But it does not count as a "bounty". which makes it seem as iF Saddam paid for suicide bombers.

Given that even with 25K most pals would not get a permit to rebuild a bulldozed home, I hardly think the money was much of an incitement above and beyond other factors.

	22-04-2004 23:50									#107
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quote: Originally posted by GePap And besides, now you are changing the arguement to one of UN sanctions-which brings a whole host of other problems.

That seems to be the entire crux of the matter. Was Iraq and Saddam pronounced to be in clear and material breach of UN resolution or not?

	22-04-2004 23:54									#108
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Yes- BUT:

Even if so, members are not authorized to be vigelantees and "enforce" the rules by themselves sans UNSC sanction. There are many states in violation of resolutions-their neighbors are not capable of using that as an excuse to attack anyone thought.

If a court rules you in violation of the law- it is still only officers of the court that can go an get you legally- no "citizen's arrest".

You can;t claim a war in order to enforce UN rules by doing it in a method that breeches UN rules.

	23-04-2004 00:00									#109
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quote: Originally posted by GePap NO. But it does not count as a "bounty". which makes it seem as iF Saddam paid for suicide bombers. Given that even with 25K most pals would not get a permit to rebuild a bulldozed home, I hardly think the money was much of an incitement above and beyond other factors.

Now you're fooling yourself. He was withholding medicine and other food stuffs from his own people for political gain. Do you really think his motive was to help these people after the fact? Don't insult me.

	23-04-2004 00:28									#110
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Yes- BUT: Even if so, members are not authorized to be vigelantees and "enforce" the rules by themselves sans UNSC sanction. There are many states in violation of resolutions-their neighbors are not capable of using that as an excuse to attack anyone thought. If a court rules you in violation of the law- it is still only officers of the court that can go an get you legally- no "citizen's arrest". You can;t claim a war in order to enforce UN rules by doing it in a method that breeches UN rules.

Please do yourself a favor google the resolutions and see for yourself that material breach allowed member nations of the original gulf war actions to resume hositlities hence no UN breech.

	23-04-2004 01:00									#111
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quote: Originally posted by rah Now you're fooling yourself. He was withholding medicine and other food stuffs from his own people for political gain. Do you really think his motive was to help these people after the fact? Don't insult me.

NO, his reasons for doing it were self-serving to build up support from the general Arab public outside of Iraq.

His motives have 0 to do with the nature of the money he was giving though, so stop doging the point.

	23-04-2004 01:03									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Please do yourself a favor google the resolutions and see for yourself that material breach allowed member nations of the original gulf war actions to resume hositlities hence no UN breech.

OH please. This again.



Sorry, but this is the same tired line Sloww always sells. I wonder why it isn't even a line the admin. or its allies oversea's try to sell?

Take it up with the lawyers for the UK who could not even justify the war on this ground.

	23-04-2004 01:08									#113
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Have you read them?

More to the point has any mtion been brought up before the UN to sanction the US (as this would be a clear indication of violation). And if so what was the decision?

	23-04-2004 01:17									#114
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quote: Originally posted by rah GEPAP You've dragged this one so far off the path, that I've forgotten the original point. One advantage of old age.