05-05-2004 22:35									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Not even in a Frenchie way. But I mean, these people who went three weeks in Italy... and didn't have one bite of Italian food? The heresy!

It is heresy! The popular Chinese opinion of Italian food is that it's "just noodles".

	06-05-2004 00:36									#62
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quote: The notion the poor should be making their own food at home and not paying for the "luxury" of fast food seems to come only from people who don;t have a freaking clue about the urban poor.

I admit ignorance in that I've never been, nor will ever be, the urban poor. Nor will I work extensively with them, which IIRC you do. So clearly you know more about it.

I've been in NYC quite a bit, and at least in Manahattan, there seems to be a grocery store (small, probably a tad pricey) on every corner in the upper west side. Is that no longer true when one goes up to Harlem or the Bronx?

Anyway, I guess I can see how it would be easy to fall into a pattern of eating the fast food crap a lot. But IMO, it's still ultimately the responsibility of the people eating that crap. Nowadays you can't possibly be under the impression that McDonalds is healthy. The nutrition info is on the stuff, and it's horrific. You don't need much knowledge on nutrition to know it's terrible for you.

-Arrian

	06-05-2004 00:37									#63
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye It is heresy! The popular Chinese opinion of Italian food is that it's "just noodles".

Doh. Their loss, I guess. Mmm, Italian food.

-Arrian

	07-05-2004 11:16									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Jac de Molay This is all assuming, of course, that the grocery stores are actually WHERE the poor people are. Is there transportation for car-less poor people to get to these places? Do they even accept food stamps or other vouchers? Poor people, in general, have much less access to grocery stores that offer healthy nutrional staples, so they do rely on junk-peddlers like party stores and McD's for food. And the movie does make a valid point- There ARE a lot of Americans who eat fast food on a daily basis, for years on end. The fact that he did what he did is meant to underscore that very point.

In my city the grocery stores are closer to MCdonald's. In my example above, we have a shuttle bus to run people who live downtown to the supermarket. We don't even have a Mcdonald's downtown! (although I think there is one in Fitzgerald's casino).

	07-05-2004 11:21									#65
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quote: Originally posted by GePap The notion the poor should be making their own food at home and not paying for the "luxury" of fast food seems to come only from people who don;t have a freaking clue about the urban poor. As has been said: 1. Access to supermarkets is limited-even then for the working poor the time to cook is low. 2. IN reality, the cheapest fast food is comparative with cooking at home-look at wendies and it's 1 dollar menu-for about 4 bucks you can get a lot of food-and superzising does entice people. There is a reaosn obesity is more prevalent among the poor-the fact is the cheapest food now is the most fattening as well. Cheaper to buy a sack of potatos and a gallon of oil to fry it in that fruits and vegetables. Oh, and my boss went to school with this guy..sadly, that has not gotten us in the staff a free way to get in

Bullshit of course.

None of you know what it's like to be poor. I WAS poor when I was growing up. We could NOT afford fast food. The most we could afford is Mcdonald's maybe once a month. Pizza maybe once or twice a year.

It IS cheaper to buy groceries than fast food. How many times do I have to say it?

	07-05-2004 11:23									#66
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and I know why poor people are fat. I won't state it hear, because it might not be politically correct.

	07-05-2004 11:28									#67
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye It is heresy! The popular Chinese opinion of Italian food is that it's "just noodles".

And what exactly is wrong with Indian food?
Whenever I eat either Chinese or Indian, I get a stomach ache for the next week and a half...

	07-05-2004 11:31									#68
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Mcdonalds is fairly cheap but i always have said that for the price of a double cheeseburger (a dollar) you could get a loaf of bread. granted, if you were to make burgers at home, i got a feeling it'd cost more than mcdonalds (just because they buy in bulk) but its definently overall cheaper to eat frugal food you made at home with basic foodstuffs than eat at mcdonalds.

when i was young, i rarely ate at mcdonalds. when they had those 39 cent hamburgers or 49 cent cheeseburgers on certain days of the week, my mom would send me out to buy a small hoard that we would freeze. a few dollars and a microwave and we could eat for the whole week.

now that i'm grown, i actually eat at fast food places quite often (everyday but the fact that i work at a mcdonalds increases my daily dosage). you develop a real hatred for the customers, by the way, if you work at mcdonalds. you start getting a certain satisfaction when the animals come to the trough and pay you for slowly killing themselves. feels like i'm doing something special...

and by the way, people going to mcdonalds is a bit over-rated. There's a mcdonalds every few blocks but there's a chinese store on every other corner. it's the chinese stores with their 2 dollars gets you four chicken wings that is where people really go for every meal of every day.

	07-05-2004 11:32									#69
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quote: and I know why poor people are fat. I won't state it hear, because it might not be politically correct.

id like to hear this...

	07-05-2004 11:42									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer Mcdonalds is fairly cheap but i always have said that for the price of a double cheeseburger (a dollar) you could get a loaf of bread. granted, if you were to make burgers at home, i got a feeling it'd cost more than mcdonalds (just because they buy in bulk) but its definently overall cheaper to eat frugal food you made at home with basic foodstuffs than eat at mcdonalds. when i was young, i rarely ate at mcdonalds. when they had those 39 cent hamburgers or 49 cent cheeseburgers on certain days of the week, my mom would send me out to buy a small hoard that we would freeze. a few dollars and a microwave and we could eat for the whole week. now that i'm grown, i actually eat at fast food places quite often (everyday but the fact that i work at a mcdonalds increases my daily dosage). you develop a real hatred for the customers, by the way, if you work at mcdonalds. you start getting a certain satisfaction when the animals come to the trough and pay you for slowly killing themselves. feels like i'm doing something special... and by the way, people going to mcdonalds is a bit over-rated. There's a mcdonalds every few blocks but there's a chinese store on every other corner. it's the chinese stores with their 2 dollars gets you four chicken wings that is where people really go for every meal of every day.

I hear you about those chinese places. And they give you a shitload of rice with those meals, and it's just as cheap as McDonald's almost. We have one on just about every corner, including N. Las Vegas (which is probably the poorest area).

we have more of those chinese places than McDonald's by a long shot. We actually had a McDonald's close down!! I guess they weren't getting a lot of business.

But the thing about those chinese places. I never feel comfortable eating chinese food cooked by a mexican . I was just kidding, don't take that as racist. It just feels more natural to have chinese cook chinese food.

	07-05-2004 11:46									#71
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we got it the opposite way here... it's chinese (and koreans) making american food. fried chicken, fried fish, catfish, shrimp, ribs, etc. you can still get chinese food but they make their business selling american food.

and the spanish people keep going for the garlic plantans and ****.

	07-05-2004 13:33									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident None of you know what it's like to be poor. I WAS poor when I was growing up. We could NOT afford fast food. The most we could afford is Mcdonald's maybe once a month. Pizza maybe once or twice a year.

Hmmm... I remember running over to the Shell gas station to buy a can of $.89 spaghetti for dinner, every night for 6 months when I 1st moved to Chicago, and walking past a store selling $.99 hot dogs and thinking to myself, "I can't afford it."

I think that qualifies, but I can't say I care to repeat the experience.

	07-05-2004 16:50									#73
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ebert just posted a wonderful review of super size me:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/eber...s-super07f.html

it's really great, although I wish he had discussed the movie a little bit more.

	07-05-2004 16:54									#74
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quote: Originally posted by Theben Hmmm... I remember running over to the Shell gas station to buy a can of $.89 spaghetti for dinner, every night for 6 months when I 1st moved to Chicago, and walking past a store selling $.99 hot dogs and thinking to myself, "I can't afford it."

You can get a crown of brocolli and bulk rice for less than that and voila - steamed vegetables and rice. Food for a king.

	07-05-2004 23:13									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Bullshit of course. None of you know what it's like to be poor. I WAS poor when I was growing up. We could NOT afford fast food. The most we could afford is Mcdonald's maybe once a month. Pizza maybe once or twice a year.

2 questions: poor in an urban area, or in a sub-urban area with easier access to other places to buy food?

2. How long ago was that?

quote: It IS cheaper to buy groceries than fast food. How many times do I have to say it?

Yes it is, so when exactly will the woman working a job for 10 hours a day have time to cook it?

	07-05-2004 23:46									#76
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quote: 2 questions: poor in an urban area, or in a sub-urban area with easier access to other places to buy food?

you mean the opposite right? urban areas have access to supermarkets, corner stores, chinese stores, mcdonalds, etc.

	07-05-2004 23:48									#77
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd You can get a crown of brocolli and bulk rice for less than that and voila - steamed vegetables and rice. Food for a king.

I'm trying to remember where the supermarket was. IIRC it was a good distance from the apartment, but it's not like we didn't walk everywhere back then anyways. che or bunnygrrl usually did the grocery shopping.

And the food pantry was 1 1/2 miles, but that was free.

	07-05-2004 23:52									#78
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Also, the groceries may not be cheaper when you factor in the time requried to obtain them (much less cooking and clean-up time). Many urban poor do not have their own cars, so a trip to the supermarket may involve a significant amount of time. Plus, you have to go more often because the amount of groceries you can carry on a city bus is limited.

I recall when I lived in San Francisco a few years ago, many supermarkets were pulling out of downtown Oakland, creating a growing problem for many impoverished Oakland residents who lacked wheels.

	07-05-2004 23:59									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer you mean the opposite right? urban areas have access to supermarkets, corner stores, chinese stores, mcdonalds, etc.

Depends on the neighborhood. One big complaint in our district is the relative lack of supermarkets. So, given that, once you do assume there are plenty of greasy food joint, it becomes cheaper money and timewise to go to what is convinient, which is NOt going to buy food in a supermarket, specially if you won't have the time to cook it.

	08-05-2004 00:01									#80
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quote: Also, the groceries may not be cheaper when you factor in the time requried to obtain them (much less cooking and clean-up time). Many urban poor do not have their own cars, so a trip to the supermarket may involve a significant amount of time. Plus, you have to go more often because the amount of groceries you can carry on a city bus is limited.

Plus, if they were to carry many groceries, that would mean many people have to go to the store at once, which ties up the family.
Do they make bicycles with extra carrying capacity or something? That could help push toward a solution.

	08-05-2004 00:05									#81
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quote: Originally posted by bipolarbear Plus, if they were to carry many groceries, that would mean many people have to go to the store at once, which ties up the family. Do they make bicycles with extra carrying capacity or something? That could help push toward a solution.

I've seen someone with what I assume was a home-made wagon attached to his bike. I want one.

	08-05-2004 00:42									#82
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There aren't bicycle wagons for sale in the States?

	08-05-2004 00:58									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist There aren't bicycle wagons for sale in the States?

I live in Canada but I've never seen one for sale, or in use. (except from the example I just gave. )

	08-05-2004 01:03									#84
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We used to sell them and presumably still do, but few people want a pair of ugly racks on the side of their bike.

	08-05-2004 01:07									#85
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I'm gonna go get some BBQ pork at Bono's.

	08-05-2004 01:54									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Theben We used to sell them and presumably still do, but few people want a pair of ugly racks on the side of their bike.

The kind of wagon I'm thinking of is pulled behind the bike. How ugly it is is up to you, pretty much.

The one's I've used - for newspaper dealing - have, needless to say, been aggressively ugly.

	08-05-2004 11:12									#87
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quote: Originally posted by GePap 2 questions: poor in an urban area, or in a sub-urban area with easier access to other places to buy food? 2. How long ago was that? Yes it is, so when exactly will the woman working a job for 10 hours a day have time to cook it?

middle class people work just as many hours as poor people. I know guys working 3 jobs to maintain large extravagent houses.

the poor have no excuse, that is my point.

	08-05-2004 11:14									#88
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and poor people do not have to worry about carrying large amounts of groceries because they steal the carts and take them home.

although some stores are implementing high tech carts that cannot be rolled outside the parking lot.

	08-05-2004 17:07									#89
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In most 'real' restaurants I've run across, it would be trivial to run before paying ...

But surely, legally optaining a cart should be trivial?

	08-05-2004 17:37									#90
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From monolith's link:

quote: This week a Chicago nutritionist told a Sun-Times reporter that of course Spurlock put on weight, because he was eating 5,000 calories a day. She suggested a McDonald's three-meal menu that would not be fattening, but as I studied it, I wondered: How many customers consider a small hamburger, small fries and a Diet Coke as their dinner? When was the last time you even ordered a small hamburger (that's not a Quarter Pounder) at McDonald's? Don't all raise your hands at once. Oh, I agree with the nutritionist that her recommended three meals would not add weight; her daily caloric intake totaled 1,460 calories

That's the caloric needs of a 110lbs woman with a "sedentary" life-style. According to this test, a man of my height and level of physical activity needs a thousand calories a day more to maintain a BMI of 20 (the lower end of the "ideal" region). I submit that most of us wouldn't consider a small hamburger, small fries and a diet coke an acceptable dinner, because it's too little food.

For the record, the last time I ordered a small hamburger in a McD was about a month ago, in Liège. I had two small burgers for lunch. Only time since September I've been to a McD.