25-05-2004 22:54									#31
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Group PBEM's, beware! Here she comes!!

	26-05-2004 03:39									#32
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GeoModder:
If the scenario creator does their job properly new units (such as Googlie's Sea Probes) will be bound into the game and noone will have to do any funny stuff with their Alphax.txt files. Are you sure that you are not GeoMuddier impersonating GeoModder ?

Maniac:
I could be wrong, but IIRC, the #Units list is not the only part of Alphax.txt that can be bound into the game file. I'll have to see if I have any memory aids to refresh my memory about what else might bind. OTOH, I am pretty sure that the #Chassis section does not bind, so I regret that the chopper movement thing could not be done by the Scenario Editor - I would personally rather not change it if it took screwing aroung with everyone's Alphax.txt files (Yes, I know that additional installations of SMAC/X can be used to harbor aberrant versions of .txt files, but I really don't like the idea of having AC directories multiplying like rabbits on my disks - I have enough trouble finding and keeping track of things as it is).

I am pretty sure that much of the factionname.txt files will also bind into the game - so that a custom or cloned faction can be added into a scenario and it will function correctly even if the players do not download/copy anything into their main AC directory or their Scenario directory area (things like the faction definition parameters will apply in the game even if they do not display correctly in the datalinks/faction-profiles.

For Kody, Maniac &/or whomever else cares:
I wrote a batch file a few years ago to juggle the alpha.txt and other files for the Aldebaron Mod so that it would be relatively easy and reasonably safe to switch a half dozen or so files between SMAC and Aldeb modes. Here is a link to it. It is run from the AC directory with a parameter (SMAC or ALDEB - CHECK is assumed if it doesn't recognize your parameter) to tell it what to do, and the command lines with parameters can easily be associated with desktop icon shortcuts to make the thing pretty painless to run. No doubt it could be adapted to our current needs and/or made more complicated to do additional or different stuff. The program is basically pretty simple, it just renames the inactive files to things like SMAC-Alpha.txt or ALDEB-Alpha.txt and renames the active ones to the usual names; it does, however go through a reasonable amount of trouble to keep things straight and keep one from making any stupid mistakes leading to the files getting accidentally misnamed or deleted, the kind of thing that is all too easy to do manually. You still have to remember to run it, however, for it to work.

	26-05-2004 03:49									#33
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quote: Because I don't know how to do that. Are you volunteering though?

Sure it's fairly simple, although jm seems to have it all covered.

	26-05-2004 18:00									#34
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Damn. That's a bit weirder than the DOS based .bat files I used to make. Does that actually work without some kind of other program that can understand commands like 'goto'?

	26-05-2004 21:47									#35
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If particular SPs are proven to be so overpowering and unbalancing... why not just scenario edit them out in the opening so we don't even have to worry about editing anything?

	26-05-2004 21:50									#36
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Yes, that works perfectly for the SP's. So I take it you prefer to keep the choppers as they are and just remove CBA and EG from the game?

	28-05-2004 08:26									#37
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Yes, that works perfectly for the SP's. So I take it you prefer to keep the choppers as they are and just remove CBA and EG from the game?

That's my choice too.

	28-05-2004 20:27									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Net Warrior That's my choice too.

Ditto...

I mean, it's bad enough that I have to remember to switch my alaphax.txt (personal preferences) back to original when playing PBEM, it'd something else if I had to not only switch when I play my SP but also when I look at the turn for the DG plus also switch for PBEM...

	28-05-2004 20:29									#39
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Yep. Changing the alphax.txt is one step too far IMHO. We know that an interesting and balanced game can be produced without changing the alphax.txt so why not do that?

	28-05-2004 20:40									#40
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I simply do not understand what is the all fuss about. It is hard to you to make a duplicate directory. Fine. You do not wish to swap files each time then. Fine. Now people have volunteered to make a bat program so that you do not have to do anything with alpha.txt and you still compain? Will you next complain that you are actually forced to run the game to participate in it?

	28-05-2004 20:41									#41
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Er...

<--- Mac user!

Let's see that .bat file of yours work here!

	29-05-2004 01:37									#42
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It's got nothing to do with the hassle involved for me. There is essentially very little to it. From my point of view, I do not want to play with a modified alpha.txt, excepting the units section perhaps. I signed up for an AC demogame, not BC or whatever.

I want to play SMAX, not a mod.

	29-05-2004 02:22									#43
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Actually, now that I think of it. It perhaps is possible to have choppers with less movement points without tinkering in another section then the #UNITS section. Simply place a chopper there with the 'slow movement' abilityflag enabled. Don't know if this is possible on air units though, have to test this out.

That way the AI has an air advantage as long as the teams don't construct 'regular' choppers.
The drawback is that the most common weapon/ability chopper combinations must be put in the #UNITS list then, from missile to string choppers, with empath and without, with tactical ability and without...

	02-06-2004 13:41									#44
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Actually, now that I think of it. It perhaps is possible to have choppers with less movement points without tinkering in another section then the #UNITS section. Simply place a chopper there with the 'slow movement' abilityflag enabled. Don't know if this is possible on air units though, have to test this out.

Do you mean to effectively add a new Chassis to MMI (or wherever it is that choppers turn up)? That way the option to build it would be in all PBEMs etc (for the amazingly lazy who can't seem to handle a simple copy-paste operation every couple of days or even a dual install ) without changing the PBEMs etc where Choppers are as they are.
There is a slight risk there that someone would accidentally build one of these lesser Choppers than the original in a PBEM or somesuch, but if it will finally satisfy those I alluded to above then we should do it.

I don't know what all the fuss is about though. The votes for changed rules are clear. Some changes can be made in the scenario, some have to be edited in. The polls are recent. Yet for some reason we are bogged down for what seems like weeks where a few people are suddenly complaining about what it in all honesty a triviality. Why is it so difficult?

* MrWhereItsAt really is getting exasperated here

	02-06-2004 23:15									#45
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Well, since appearantly units in the #UNITS list are brought in a scenario this wouldn't happen, MWIA. At least as long as no-one uses the ACDG alphax.txt file for his PBEM's. The only problem is that for the ACDG the #UNITS list becomes very long.

	03-06-2004 15:50									#46
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...So in essence there IS no problem?

	03-06-2004 16:08									#47
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What GeoModder suggests is unfortunately practically impossible. After all, there are thousands of possible combinations with the chopper chassis.

	03-06-2004 21:25									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac After all, there are thousands of possible combinations with the chopper chassis.

And how many of those possibilities are actually used?
Now that I think of it, from the moment fuel nanocells (Matter Compression) becomes available, an agreement could be followed that it wouldn't be used but merely assumed that ANY chopper from then on automatically has fuel nanocells, but won't be produced WITH nanocells. So from then on all sort of choppers can freely be produced but the nanocells ability cannot be used. That is something easy to check by mods and other teams. So it cuts down the list already to six weapons. Also, when this sort of choppers will be used, teams are not likely to produce tactical choppers because tactical needles will have the same range as the reduced range of 'normal' choppers. That's one ability gone already. Further perhaps as a replacement for the reduced range, the deep radar ability can automatically be granted. Second ability solved. How many important ones remain? Empath song? Polymorphic? Nerve Gas? 18 extra 'chopper' units in the list then... Sounds feasible in my ears.

	03-06-2004 22:31									#49
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I appreciate all the discussions but I have to join the others (again) in asking, are we sure we really want to do all those things? Do we need another poll again?

	03-06-2004 23:00									#50
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I don`t know why, but I would rather use a second directory than Geo`s suggestion

	04-06-2004 02:56									#51
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You even wouldn't notice it, Obstructor, since the adapted alphax.txt file will only be in the hands of the CMN.

As for HongHu, perhaps a new poll is the best. It's already what, a month or two since the preliminary one? It looks like a majority won't agree with more changes then by the scenario editor and the #UNITS list can be achieved, but if fairly easy things can be changed by mutual agreement, why not then? I'm only offering this chopper range reduce as a way to please both camps.

	04-06-2004 06:18									#52
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I'd go along with modifications that the CMN ALONE would handle. I'm not interested in messing around with alterations to my own files.

	04-06-2004 15:32									#53
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So,... who will make a new poll then?

	04-06-2004 22:34									#54
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My worry is since the ACDGII game still hasn't ended quite some people are not around right now. The only people who are kind of active maybe the ones who is in favor or drastically changing the game, since this is what the discussions have been lately. Other people may just have no interest and have dropped off until later when the new game is more ready to start.

	04-06-2004 22:40									#55
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Well, an open end poll then perhaps? And with the rule that any voter need to post his choice as well as no anonymous mess up can happen? Besides, by the look of things the DG could be finished by the end of june.

	04-06-2004 22:48									#56
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Ok, with the following options?

	04-06-2004 23:40									#57
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I'd say run with those options, with a disclaimer that if "No Change" wins, then the previous polls are taken to be over-ruled. Likewise, I guess with CMN only changes in the case of any polls that suggested a change to the alphax.txt.

	05-06-2004 02:00									#58
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If the second option includes the #UNITS list as changable for the CMN, I agree to that setup.

It's only necessary to run a more detailed list of changes when this proposal passes this poll then.

	05-06-2004 05:27									#59
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder So it cuts down the list already to six weapons.

Aren't there sixteen weapon types?

quote: Also, when this sort of choppers will be used, teams are not likely to produce tactical choppers because tactical needles will have the same range as the reduced range of 'normal' choppers.

Giving them the slow unit ability would still leave them with 7 movement points AFAIK (while the polls indicate a reduction by two is wanted). A bit less powerful than before, but they'll still have the multiple attack ability. Pretty useful IMHO.

quote: How many important ones remain?

I still counted eight that would make sense on choppers. Those alone could create about 75 combinations per weapon if I'm correct. Also don't forget units in #UNITS can only have fission reactors. That's the biggest problem IMO.

	06-06-2004 22:24									#60
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Here is a cool idea

MORE ELECTIONS!!!

Rather then once every 20 years (an eternity in game turms) how about every 5 or even 4 years.

With more frequent elections their will be more diplomacy and statecraft between factions and a better chance for more then one faction to to hold the govenorship as the winds of fortune shift.

I dont think it would be very hard to implement. I'm not shure about this but I belive calling the Council is based on comparing current year with last year of council to get the difference and then comparing that with the Alpha. So if just 1 of the teams loads up the turn under a modified Alpha and calls it should triger the event for everyone else (will need to test this in a PBEM). This should be a very simple operation that the CMN could even do by reciving a save from one of the factions and then opening it under modified alpha and initating the council before saving and posting. A piece of cake realy and the rewards are potentialy so high.