24-05-2004 20:39									#31
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I don't think we need rules as to settings PIN.. The reason I say this is because I would anticipate all teams play all others twice.. Once at home (their own map wonder, difficulty etc settings) and once away, the opponents settings.. Maybe we should also score higher for an 'away win' ? Where you beat opponent on their setting? Maybe 3 points away win, 2 points home win? I do not want to use a formula for this that is contentious.. straight forward league points.. And maybe 4 teams per division.. That is 6 matches.

If we have 3 players per team, then that is 12 players.. If there are another 12 (unlikely) then we could have a second division.. If there are two divisions.. the winner of the 2nd division gains promotion, and likewise bottom of the 1st drops to second, simple, straightforward and fair.

	24-05-2004 22:00									#32
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home and away is a good idea. but i wouldnt score differently. i think it increases the thrill if an home or away match can give you the same benefit towards the end of the season.

for 3 person teams, we would also need either
a) 2 host players in the team or
b) 1 host player who will play regularly.

as for both host players being annihilated, thus losing the connection, i suggest that the last host player is beaten when his last but one city is taken, that he notifies the other players of that and that he then inactively stays in the game with his last city.

or we need a scoring rule for both host players being annihilated, as it would end the game in some cases and to rule everyone equal the game would have to be over then in all cases. also, for equalness' sake, host and nonhost player would have to be regarded the same way by any scoring rule.
for example, as you said, gary, eliminating one player will win the other team the game instantly.

for specific scoring i would suggest a main score/tie-breaker system with 1 or 2 tie-breakers like it is the case in most leagues and also in the PBEM Super League.
for example:
winning team gets 2 match points, losing team 0. for the unlikely case that both teams lose one player during the same turn the points should be given 1 each. for fairness' sake, when one player loses, the current calendar year (turn number) should be finished to see if the other team can equalize it during the same turn.
candidates for tie-breaker scores:
the turn number of winning,
the positions of the players on the PG during that turn,
...

	24-05-2004 22:11									#33
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I'm still in. But how many hours every two weeks? 1, 2, 4? I can only commit to 2 hours every two weeks -- and only on Saturday mornings (Los Angeles time). That doesn't seem like much time to play. Sorry for the restrictions... If it is not flexible enough, then I'll have to bow out.

	24-05-2004 22:13									#34
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with the 3 person teams it should be fine

	25-05-2004 18:26									#35
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Yes thats the point.. I think pairings should approach a host after discussing the time they have available.

I think we will end up with four hosts and 12 players.. The hosts will be

Azrael
Blackice
Yoda
Gavrushka

So each host takes two players who between them can commit to so much time each.

Additional hosts will mean additional slots for none hosts. BUT the hosts have got to be available for the combined time of the two none hosts in their team. Maybe we will even have a trial run with three hosts, and try a couple of games??

	25-05-2004 18:56									#36
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what do you see as the purpose of such a trial run ?

	25-05-2004 19:05									#37
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OH no Nemesis... Here we go with the questions...

Many of the none hosts have never played on line or rarely. They need some experience and help to make sure there game play and turn speed are acceptable.

I want to see some matches arranged to see the mechanics of people actually turning up.

I want to make sure there are no buggy CTP installs, or firewall issues that stop game play.

I want to see whether new players actually enjoy the on line experience and are willing to commit..

I await eagerly your next batch of highly relevant questions..

	25-05-2004 19:19									#38
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okay, i see what you mean.

	26-05-2004 00:57									#40
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How about this Saturday at 1500 GMT for our first test? I can make it then. Which server? NL?

	26-05-2004 01:00									#41
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Alas it is my AGM Saturday! .. I do not get back home until very late evening. So I could not make it..

	26-05-2004 03:23									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka I think we will end up with four hosts and 12 players.. The hosts will be Azrael Blackice Yoda Gavrushka

I cant play with yoda as host but i can play with paul, grandpa troll, attila and grafxfx (I have no email adresses)

	26-05-2004 04:04									#43
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quote: Originally posted by filix I cant play with yoda as host but i can play with paul, grandpa troll, attila and grafxfx (I have no email adresses)

And I really enjoy playing with you Filix

I hope we can again have a nice game!

I am back from Honduras (long time many hours preparing for it too!)

I am actually considering another PBEM game

BUT..hopefully a few MP games soon!

Peace

Grandpa Troll

	26-05-2004 04:05									#44
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Filix, can't you just see it.. You, Yoda and Paul as one team... I think we would all just give you the victory !

I do hope that we balance the teams so that one team does not beat every other..

Grandpa Troll I think said he would not have time to join, or rather had severe doubts it would ever happen.

Grafxfx and Atilla have never posted.. Paul has once. If Paul can host thats a fifth team!

*EDIT* Your post came in Troll as I posted..

	26-05-2004 04:43									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Gavrushka Filix, can't you just see it.. You, Yoda and Paul as one team... I think we would all just give you the victory ! I do hope that we balance the teams so that one team does not beat every other.. Grandpa Troll I think said he would not have time to join, or rather had severe doubts it would ever happen. Grafxfx and Atilla have never posted.. Paul has once. If Paul can host thats a fifth team! *EDIT* Your post came in Troll as I posted..

But Gav..for real and no offense meant..but I NEVER PLAY with all these people..not the payers per say but the AMOUNT of players..

Games drag and well..so many know tricks and I dont and well..I prefer a 1 vs 1 game or maybe a 3way game..

I tried the "league" and it fizzled and sputtered but do and look forward to many more MP fun games

I do however wish you the best of fortunes on this endeavor!

Grandpa "A-2nd-rate-NO HARM MEANT-nemesis"Troll

	26-05-2004 05:15									#46
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I speak I think teams are great but 1 vs 1 would be great too. It would also add more flexability to online play. Could we not do both?

Ok here is some info for you network guru's, games.igateway.net is 206.142.60.4 in two weeks it seems to be static. UDP port outgoing is 21157 for CTP. Now that is static for sure. You could also simply enter the games etc address and let the firewall, windows resolve it.

Nl. server is different it jumps around so I would avoid it but here goes: 195.193.163.56 again outgoing port is 21157.

The tricky part is the incomming UDP port it jumps around too, so it starts at: 21120, 21130, 21140, 21150, 21190. It also comes in on 21220 to 21260.

So if you program your firewalls and your network to allow this information we should be able to use xp for hosting.

Now I did program my firewall to allow the games. server tonight on high security. The ping was 2000+ until I told it to allow the games. address. Once done it settled back to 200 or so where it usually is without the firewall on. So the address is correct as the nl. server was still 4k or so still after making the adjustment to the firewall by adding the games. server address and leving it on high security.

So it would seem to me we need to tell xp with the firewall on to allow UDP ports 21120 to 21290 for incomming. 21157 for out going and again let xp figure out the server address. I would recomend the games server as it seems static.

Now my xp is set up this way but need to test it. I doubt it will work with an xp victim unless that person had it set up this way too. So anyone want to play test this Idea? Now the problem will be two fold for people with routers. You will need to program both.

Ber you now have the information needed to inquire with your ISP as to how to get your internet connection o allow this game to work. I would say if they have these ports blocked it is odd since no known trojan etc uses it. I guess they maybe erroring on the side of safe.

Last edited by blackice on 26-05-2004 at 05:33

	26-05-2004 07:32									#47
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Ok adding nl. server as a host name worked too.

	26-05-2004 11:43									#48
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Ice would you help sort a 1v1 league if enough different people are interested? Or someone?? The issue being for me is that the mass appeal of team play and the lack of hosts means 1v1 is a little more restrictive.. But it would work far more smootlhly!

	26-05-2004 15:30									#49
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i will hardly find time for a 2x2 league.

another suggestion:
i would say no restarts until good starting conditions are found. there is always a luck factor in every sport and this could be one of ours.
also nice should one team emerge as the ultimately best to give some hope to the others.

	26-05-2004 15:49									#50
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I agree on no restarts. Bad land is a spur to find better land elsewhere.

I also feel that the time involved in a 1v1 league would be too much, unless it was run far less formally and over a long long time period.. Plus there would be very few players who could actually enter it due to O.S. restrictions.

	27-05-2004 15:15									#51
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Im pretty confident Yoda cant host, he hasnt been able to this year, has that scenario problem 90% of games started and they won't reload. I stand to be corrected, but im not often wrong.

I can host but i cant play (-:

	02-06-2004 21:34									#52
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I talked to attila and grafxfx, i think theyll join.
I hope they will post here very soon.

	02-06-2004 21:48									#53
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We need them.. Then we can form teams and start!

	03-06-2004 05:43									#54
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I'm in.

Vote early and often.