29-07-2004 20:37									#31
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You built the legionaries from scratch? May I suggest you consider the power of unit upgrades. Build 10 warriors, save 400 gold, and THEN connect the iron. Now you've got 10 legionaries.

Of course, you can always disconnect iron by pillaging the iron tile to cut the road.

Early GA, huh? Personally, I'm not a fan of early GAs. As Rome, I'd use archers or horsemen to beat up my neigbors, and then land the knockout blow with legionaries (and/or knights). The idea would be to just trim them a bit - nail settler teams if you can, maybe take a city or two. Most of the time, I end up with a stack or two of troops positioned on highground in noman's land, waiting for the AI's "counterattack" troops, which I typically can kill off rather easily, since they often send 1-3 units at a time.

-Arrian

	29-07-2004 20:39									#32
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It is so hard to make generalized statements in the dark. No save or even some screen shots makes it just pure guess work.

I would love to have seen the 4000bc start to find out why you only have 2 cities.

Use of the Legions of course triggered your GA and with only a few cities, it will be very unproductive. Is it despotic as well?
Are we on a small island? If so just crank out legions and take down those other civs.

No idea if an FP is even useful, because I have no idea what the land looks like. If this is not C3C, I would be loathed to use a leader for anything other than a wonder. You do not need the Epic as the Romans, it can wait.

	29-07-2004 21:22									#33
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Pic - You can see the edge of the other Jap town I took - it is a bit too far away from Rome . . .
I'd like to build some leginaries to take the 2 persian cities to the north and then start building libraries / marketplaces etc.

(I should get workers to iriigate those plains!!!)

I do have 2 luxuries - which is not bad for such a small territory.

BTW - I had built about 4 cities in 15 turns (granaries turned out to be a good investment) - so I'm not THAT miserable now

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	29-07-2004 21:27									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian You built the legionaries from scratch? May I suggest you consider the power of unit upgrades. Build 10 warriors, save 400 gold, and THEN connect the iron. Now you've got 10 legionaries.

Are you sure you can upgrade to UU's in vanilla CIV III?

	29-07-2004 22:20									#35
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I think it depends on the patch, SIV. If you have the latest patch, UUs should be in the upgrade path, but it's been so long since I played vanilla that I may be wrong.

	29-07-2004 22:25									#36
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I see tokyo right next to you, so you did start in a crowd. The land is not awful, but I see no food bonus near Rome.

There is a lot of empty looking land down the road, how many civs are in the game?

Neoplis is making a temple with 15 turns till growth. I would not go for that. I would rather see workers or troops.

Artium is not growing and has irrigation? This is Monarch with two luxs already, so you do not have any need for entertainers.

Pompei is the same as Neo, no need for a temple yet. Veil no growing and so on. Get more workers and troops. Those Legions should be taking down cities now.

I cannot recall if you can upgrade UU in vanilla, it is too late for that now anyway.

	29-07-2004 22:39									#37
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Thanks for the advice - I believe the iriigation is to the north is taken by Neapolis (so I'm iriigating more - but I really should build workers - maybe in pompii instead of that temple)

	30-07-2004 10:54									#38
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OK - my Persia campagin was successful. I've captured 3 cities, but I'll sign peace now because I've got immortals on my territory.

I have a leader now - what should I do?
FP in Persia? - I don't have enough cities there
Army to send to Persia/China in 20 turns?
Wonder? - I'm not behind in tech right now . . .

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	30-07-2004 14:16									#39
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The only wonders I can build now are colossus (not worth a leader) and Great lighthouse (why should I? - I know enough CIVS).
I can also study 2 techs (including monarchy - which I don't want - I want republic since I don't fight long wars in early ages) to build the Hanging Gardens (Or wait A LOT to get it from the AI)

So I'm not sure? FP/Leginary army and hope for another leader / wait?

Edit: BTW - The north of persia looks VERY nice for productive cities (already mined grassland and many hills) - so taking persia and building an FP a bit west of persepolis seems nice - but It's not realy centrelized (persepolis is near the ocian) and there are no rivers in northern persia . . .

Last edited by SIV on 30-07-2004 at 14:33

	30-07-2004 15:31									#40
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The Colossus is well worth a leader, considering that it can translate to ~10gpt in a good, low corruption city for a large part of the game, without even counting the multipliers, that improvements give.

The Great Lighthouse is also not too shabby, if you use it to make contact to another continent first and earn lots of cash and techs by simply levelling the research on both continents, while not sharing the contacts. And it can mean a lot: The +1 movement speaks for itself, and on small crossings the ability to travel safely on sea adds another 2. You will also find these crossings easier than without the Lighthouse, since you can start off sea and move 2 tiles ocean and back with a galley without risking it.

Both wonders can be very powerful in the right hands. But an early army is also not too bad.

	30-07-2004 17:23									#41
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As much as I love the Colossus, I wouldn't use a leader on it. The Lighthouse... maybe.

The Forbidden would be my choice, but then again you don't have the "perfect" spot for it yet. Parsagade isn't a bad spot, though...

-Arrian

	31-07-2004 01:13									#42
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At the end I used the leader for a Legionary army and it helped me to take the rest of persia (4 cities) in the next war. (BTW - my military is only 9 leginaries ans 2/3 spearmen - so the army helped me a LOT).

I had the luck to get another leader > I built FP in persepolis - not ideal - but good enough.

Usually I don't fight much until knights - but this game is an exception - I had 3 early age wars, I conquered a 7 city civ and I"m planning a small war against china while researching chivalry (so - legionaries again - don't worry - I won't waste sheilds on more troops now - I'll use my old leginaries - most elite and the army).

BTW - Leginaries proved to be cool - fortified in a city they survived most (probably good luck) Immortal attacks (the persians had about 7 Immortals in the battle zone > quite scary when I had a lot of 1 hp leginaries left)

I still need help in the game - I know the french have the pyramids - and Paris is already 12 (!) while I'm only number 3 in population. even on my own continent - China has a higher score than me (thus - war is required )

	31-07-2004 04:48									#43
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Immortals vs Legions in a town forted, that is not luck. If walls as well the legions will be tough.

	31-07-2004 09:49									#44
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This leads me to another question - I am now the proud owner of the Great Wall (persians built it for me in persepolis) - but I don't have barbs and my legions can withstand everything until china gets it's rider > so how can this wonder help me?

	31-07-2004 21:02									#45
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It will be of no vaule to any city or metro, but towns will still get the wall boost.

I guess not having to fight against it is worth something.

BTW I watch the Hist Chan which had a Persian war vs Alexander using the Total War engine to depict the fight.

	31-07-2004 21:10									#46
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I saw something recently on a similar engine involving celts and romans. It was good enough to inspire me to buy total war!