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Comrade Tassadar
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quote:
Originally posted by Berzerker
Not all drug dealers sell "hard" drugs, but there are plenty of mothers who lost their children to alcohol and tobacco too, processed sugar, cars, guns, swimming pools, etc... Are all the people who sell these products criminals? Wanna compare body counts? How about the ~500,000 who died from alcohol and tobacco last year? How many from ILLEGAL (and I emphasise the word illegal) drugs? How many people have died because of the reduced quality control in illegal drugs because they're illegal? Are you going to take credit for killing them the same way you want to blame drug dealers? How about the mothers who lost children to violence resulting from the drug war? You've adopted the left wing argument that people are not responsible for their actions, that someone else is responsible.
Besides, if we accepted your argument, that would mean drug users are victims and we're punishing them. Make sense? Are there any other crimes for which we punish the victims? No AS, when I smoked pot or used cocaine, I was not a victim thank you very much... It's funny how a supposedly conservative person such as yourself would come off sounding like a commie, they too think their superior wisdom allows them to label people victims even if the alleged victims don't agree, i.e., workers who don't agree they are being "exploited"... |
That's a great idea.
* Comrade Tassadar runs off the the Other Games forum
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:35
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oh i know several... and i actively avoid them yet they're everywhere...
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Albert Speer
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Puerile Polemic
Mar 1999
time: 00:35
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because you live in Kansas...
you know why the hell it's funny
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lightblue
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L'Boro, UK
Oct 2001
time: 05:35
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Prison population on average during 2000 in the UK was 64600 out of a population of roundabout 70M iirc, which comes to about 0.1% of the population. The UK has the second highest prison population per capita of Western Europe.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/r154.pdf
Thos is a quite interesting comparative study as well:
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs/r116.pdf
The Netherlands has something similar to 0.9% of the population in jail.
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:35
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That huge expense is a motive to jail more people here... The prison lobby is very powerful and we have a bunch of slimy politicians who get elected by accusing their opponents of being soft on crime. The irony being that the tougher we are on crime, the more crime we get. While roughly half our law enforcement resources are wasted chasing drug users and other "vice crimes", murderers, rapists, robbers, and terrorists are running around. Maybe 9/11 wouldn't have happened if the feds and states devoted the resources we have to real crime.
Here's an example of how slimy politics can be: the Bush campaign keeps running an ad claiming that Kerry is missing alot of votes in the Senate (no kidding, he's running for Prez) but that Kerry took time out from his campaign to vote against the "Laci Peterson Law", a law the Bush people say will protect pregnant women from violence. Wtf? California doesn't have any laws protecting pregnant women against murder? Is Bush really that stupid or does he think we are?
Anyway, here is a "conservative" who preaches limited, smaller government (blah blah blah) trying to federalise yet another state law. Both sides pull this crap and the result is the federal government just keeps growing.
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lightblue
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L'Boro, UK
Oct 2001
time: 05:35
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More like less of a disparity between rich and poor, and more of a social safety net reducing the need for crime. Well, and a more sensible approach on drug users.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:35
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3% is WAY too high. See, we need the death penalty! Get those numbers down fast...
We whack 2 of those three percent and there will only be 1% left. Now that's a gaol worth having...
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DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:35
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I'm sympathetic to that line of reasoning with regard to mj, but not sympathetic to that at all with regard to drugs like crack cocaine. Crack cocaine destroyed Southeast Washington. For about 15 years it was a war zone. It's just coming out of that era this year.
However, with regard to mj, I really doubt that our system could handle legalization. Legitimate sales of cigarettes are being attacked by the legal system, after all.
Last edited by DanS on 27-07-2004 at 21:35
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Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:35
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
I'm sympathetic to that line of reasoning with regard to mj, but not sympathetic to that at all with regard to drugs like crack cocaine. Crack cocaine destroyed Southeast Washington. For about 15 years it was a war zone. It's just coming out of that era this year. |
but irregardless of your opinions of other substances, the fact remains that prohibition doesn't work. Prohibition of these substances doesn't stop usage. It only gives criminals a source of income. And incarcerating users and non-violent offenders only perpetuates more crime because a convicted felon has a much harder time rejoining society. I'm sure I don't need to list re-offense rates. You're a smart guy. 
Prohibition is the reason why areas like Southeast Washington suffer from drug crime. As I said, criminals wouldn't be able to make money if drugs were legal and available. And putting less people into the corrections system (a misnomer of sorts) allows that more people can lead productive lives despite substance abuse problems. Then, we can fund rehab programs to help people who have substance abuse problems, rather then locking up people who might otherwise lead normal, productive lives.
Do I approve of the use of crack or heroin? Absolutely not. But I recognize that curbing usage and abuse is best done through a comprehensive strategy of rehab in combination with socio-economic policies that allow people the opprotunity to succeed in life. And considering what the US spends fighting the drug war, it is a much more fiscally sound prospect funding such social programs with tax money from drug use. That way, the consumption of substances funds the solutions to their problems. That means less money wasted on law enforcement in a failing effort to police drug usage. That means tax revenue. And the beauty of it is, your income isn't paying for such welfare programs!!!!
quote:
However, with regard to mj, I really doubt that our system could handle legalization. Legitimate sales of cigarettes are being attacked by the legal system, after all. |
That's only because state and local governments enact stupid tax policies with regards to cigarettes. Certainly an economic savvy and intelligent individual such as yourself can regonize the futility of certain tax policies that allow for illegitimate cigarette sales. It doesn't make much sense for the city of New York to tax cigarettes to insanely high levels when one cross a state line and purchase cheaper cigarettes. That's why I would propose treating marijuana and other drugs the same way we treat alcohol.
And I'd like to add that countries with more liberal drug laws have fewer problems as a result of their usage. Don't you think that correlation is worth taking into account when discussing strategies for decreasing drug usage?
For instance, the Dutch have much better policies regarding drugs. They have needle exchange programs that have significantly decreased the spread of HIV with regards to the use of hypodermic needles in heroin use. And marijuana usage among the 15-24 age group in the Netherlands is lower than America!! These facts should not be ignored.
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27-07-2004 13:40
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