23-10-2004 03:32									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie This latter one has me fooled. Why would they earlier (Oct 16) say,

Yeah... Me too (scratch head).

Get Kassi to ask them this question in the embassy fortwith!

quote: Originally posted by Googlie We know they don't have Flex - unless they have just discovered it in 2144

We should know when the turn gets to us.

	23-10-2004 03:40									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Could this be a bluff to lure us into giving them better terms?.

Not from my point of view. The Spartans are just too erratic!

quote: ... should we stop the negotiations with the Angels regarding those techs as well? With the apparent cooperation between those factions, I'd be wary to give a tech to only one of those two factions.

Yes. Stop immediately.

quote: I'd be inclined to release an official communiqué to both factions that because of the abrupt refusal of all our possible and open proposals by the Gaians, we have decided only to trade techs to both factions at the same time, and not to only one faction.

Mmmm...

How about...?

"Since the Gaian and Angels have decided to undermine the Spartan attempts at 'just and fair' technolgy exchange, we are witholding such and any futur transactions until both of you have come clear on this issue"

Or somethin' loke that.

	23-10-2004 03:42									#123
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No - you're not wrong

But over the last 24 hours much has changed.

The Gaians are showing no interest in trades. Well that's their loss - we have techs the others are salivating over.

Morgan we've kinda turned our backs on. they are - or are going to be - huge energy generators yet already they're whining at paying 4 ec's a turn for priceless information

The Angels think we're a second hand thrift store that they can trade or buy techs from and then capitalize elsewhere

We're strong - nay, we're Formidable (I wonder which of Zak or Lal is the Potent one)

( that just reads so funny !!

What I mean is, the seven factions are aleways given that 1-7 ranking from Unsurpassed to Feeble. The Hive is #1 at Unsurpassed, while we're #3 at Formidable )

But for the next 20 years or so we' don't really need any more techs (we can't process the ones we do have) except for Doc Loyalty and Int Int, to get going for the CDF.

And HEC or Field Modulation would be nice to get level-3 Armor on our units

We know we can get HEC from Lal when he gets it, and we know we can get Doc Loyalty from Yang (at the risk of a vendetta)

We know we're going to get st least 1 or 2 podpops that yield energy credits (either dircetly on popping or thru flaming the IoD that emerges) and maybe we'll get a level-1 tech or a facilities/unit build with another (Navy Seals, maybe!!)

So what do we need the others for, right now?

	23-10-2004 03:52									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia Fortress Sparta would be in the Spartan spirit, yes. But it'll require a good bit of luck and careful planning to be succesful. If we can keep the others isolated and build our own power base, of course we'll have a huge advantage. I like the idea - it'd be the perfect solution after our flipflopping from pro-Angel to pro-Gaian to pro-Morgan to back to pro-Gaian.

good post (your saying what I already have in the past ).


Only correction follows:
Advantage, yes. Huge advantage - no.

quote: So, shall I just give the Gaians a formal "oh well, never mind then"

Give them a diplomatic " " as well.

quote: and do the GS<->SocP suggestion to the Angels?

Nope. Let them work it out between themselves.

	23-10-2004 05:27									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie But for the next 20 years or so we' don't really need any more techs (we can't process the ones we do have)

Correct.

quote: except for Doc Loyalty and Int Int, to get going for the CDF.

Me not worry about CDF (I posted something else regarding this somewhere...).

quote: And HEC or Field Modulation would be nice to get level-3 Armor on our units.

Or gas cannisters.

This is the real and true value of HEC (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

quote: We know we're going to get st least 1 or 2 podpops that yield energy credits (either dircetly on popping or thru flaming the IoD that emerges) and maybe we'll get a level-1 tech or a facilities/unit build with another (Navy Seals, maybe!!)

Best armour/most expensive ability, speeder supply unit!

quote: So what do we need the others for, right now?

We need them to be quivering in their boots, manifesting fear out of their own insecurities, over possible world domination of the Spartan Federation .

	23-10-2004 05:33									#126
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I'm rather flabbergasted that we've managed to attain such a strong position that an isolationist attitude is a feasible option.

Not that I mind! Upkeeping an alliance is way more difficult than posturing and giving diplomatic thumbs-downs.

	23-10-2004 06:42									#127
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quote: Originally posted by KrysiasKrusader We need them to be quivering in their boots, manifesting fear out of their own insecurities, over possible world domination of the Spartan Federation .

Maybe it should be Lieutenant-Colonel Megalomaniac

GGLIE

	23-10-2004 07:15									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia I'm rather flabbergasted that we've managed to attain such a strong position that an isolationist attitude is a feasible option.

We don't have a strong position. It's still the early game.
But to the others, and untill we've been infiltrated, it looks like we're presently ahead. Nothing more.

And we're talking about maybe 20 years. But the way things develope over the upcoming turns, this can all change - again.

quote: Not that I mind! Upkeeping an alliance is way more difficult than posturing and giving diplomatic thumbs-downs.

Not really. The trick is to establish a sense of trust between the alliance members. If both parties are sincere, then an alliance is very much stronger than two factions alone.

	23-10-2004 07:30									#129
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quote: Not really. The trick is to establish a sense of trust between the alliance members. If both parties are sincere, then an alliance is very much stronger than two factions alone.

True. But establishing trust can be difficult when the two factions may have very separate agendas (of course, that is unlikely with a pact), or if personal chemistry does not match, there can be any number of reasons. It's much more than just trust, in my opinion, and to keep two different (as they are in SMAX) factions cohesively together will/may require a lot of effort from both sides. You need to establish a protocol to co-ordinate joint assaults, to streamline research, a way to have two wildly different decision-making systems mesh (e.g. the Gaian system seems to be slow and bureaucratic, yet perhaps orderly, while we make decisions in a few hours but in a widly chaotic manner).

	23-10-2004 07:45									#130
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This is my first DG. I suppose I should have put in a sentence somewhere saying; "In MP PBEM's..."

But the same can be achieved here, I'm sure. You have to have the policy makers (in each faction) talk. At least, I see it that way...

	23-10-2004 08:34									#131
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The problem with these team based decision-making processes is that there are really different camps within the teams (as opposed to our fun roleplaying one between the "Gaian" and "Morgan" wings.

In the last one, although the Drones and the Hive had from almost the time they first met a "Pact to the finish" (Co-op was activated) there were subsets in both factions advocating a backstab of the other

Diplomacy was at a premium for the other two factions as they didn't know whethewr the D-H pact was one of convenience, joint defense, joint short-term agenda, or (as it turned out to be ) to the end

	23-10-2004 15:58									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Hmm - maybe we're being forced into a Fortress Sparta posture.

Fortress Sparta is a neat idea. But what will happen?

Wild speculation follows:

I doubt the others will join in a three-way pact against us, Morgan is too paranoid for that, though they will no doubt cooperate and trade techs. Gaia and the Angels cannot remain passive while we expand, and could attack Yang or Lal. Morgan will continue to bloat, basking in the sun at Red Fungus Resort. After some time we will have a large Sparta (having consumed Zakharov and Yang or Lal), a good sized Angel / Gaian pact and a bloated Morgan. We will have to go after one of them, probably Morgan, and then almost immediately prepare for a two front war against the others. We will of course win both wars

Alright, I like the Fortress, there isn't much outside which we can't steal. We should't be blind to good trades however, especially from the Morgans. If we're lucky, we can have peace between the human factions for some time.

And, like Kassiopeia says, it is the Spartan way.

quote: This latter one has me fooled. Why would they earlier (Oct 16) say,

It is possible they are testing us to see if we really have them infiltrated.

	26-10-2004 18:53									#133
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Yikes !!!

The PTS sure kicked in !!

G GLIE

Attachment: 2144intel.jpg
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	26-10-2004 20:26									#134
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I see Yang lost his probe team that he sent south to the Angels/Gaians

	26-10-2004 20:44									#135
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quote: Yikes !!! The PTS sure kicked in !!

We must keep in mind that our factional advantage is war. We'll be crippled if we can't stage wars that we could benefit from.

	26-10-2004 23:50									#136
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It looks like we have three strong sides in this game. The giant industrialist Morgans with the PTS, the combined Gaian/Angel axis and the strong starting militarist Spartans soon to have the Uni and PK's submit to them.

	27-10-2004 19:42									#137
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Currently researching:

Known:

Sparta - Doctrine Initiative (2148) (10 bases, 19 population)
Hive - Optical Computers (next year) (17 bases, 53 population)
University - Industrial Economics (2153) (6 bases, 23 population)
Peacekeepers - High Energy Chemistry (??) (7 bases, 17 population)

What we deduce:

Gaians - Doctrine Flexibility (notwithstanding their denial) or Ethical Calculus

Morgan - Adaptive economics (or maybe its prereq, Progenitor Psych)

Angels - Doctrine Flexibility (if the Gaians offer to trade it to us by the turn of the decade was via getting it from the A's instead of directly researching it themselves) or possible High Energy Chemistry

	03-11-2004 22:03									#138
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Interesting tidbit following the 2145 trade with Zak:

None of the other 3 teams yet have Social Psych

(so perhaps, when the Gaians earlier suggested they might be able to trade to us Social Psych and Doc Flexibility before decade's end, it meant that they were researching Soc Psych and the Angels were researching Doc Flex?)

	04-11-2004 01:23									#139
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(For some reason replacing the pic isn't working, so I've deleted it and posted the corrected pic below)

Last edited by Googlie on 04-11-2004 at 21:25

	04-11-2004 11:27									#140
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Does that image indicate, as I suspect it does, that the Angels have Ecological Engineering? How did they get that?
Or is it just that it won't fit on the screen?

	04-11-2004 20:53									#141
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LOL - I didn't pick that up. When I cut and pasted the commlinks I must have covered up the Ecol Eng and Secrets techs.

Pic above now deleted and corrected pic posted below that reflects the true situation

(Thanks for your vigilance - a true Spartan trait!!)

G.

Last edited by Googlie on 04-11-2004 at 21:30

	04-11-2004 21:27									#142
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Here is the corrected pic:

Attachment: 2145 faction data.jpg
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	07-11-2004 06:23									#143
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Hmm - If I were the Gaians, I'd be very, very wary

(And as Sparta, I'd keep on Yang's good side!!)

Here's the Hive build orders for 2145:

Attachment: hive production - 2145.jpg
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	30-11-2004 04:04									#144
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Hmm - I wonder what it'd cost for the Gaians to mind-control seat of Proper Thought (their nearest Hive base). There's quite an army assembling there!!

Attachment: hive - sopt2149.jpg
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	07-12-2004 01:54									#145
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Here are the maps of the Arcadia continent:

Arcadia - mid continent

Arcadia - the South

	07-12-2004 07:37									#146
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The Hive's military - 2150

Attachment: 2150hivenexus.jpg
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	07-12-2004 07:39									#147
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And the pitiful University's:

Attachment: 2150uninexus.jpg
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	07-12-2004 07:42									#148
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And, finally, the peacekeepers - lotsa scout rovers

Attachment: 2150pknexus.jpg
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	07-12-2004 07:48									#149
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University bases and production - 2150

Attachment: 2150unibases.jpg
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	07-12-2004 07:53									#150
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And the Peacekeepers' base production and garrisons

Attachment: 2150pkbases.jpg
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