26-09-2004 07:16									#31
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Niptium.

"That little square"

It says it all- pissed off we all are, 3 versions later the last came closest to solving it, and then stole cities away from us on higher levels just to piss us off.

I haven't seen "culture" as a concept being supported by anyone, but no one is annoyed by the idea of influence of cities regarding territorial integrity, It simply needs to be sharpened, within the border, but not outwards.

Filling the gaps is really important in Civ4 for me at least!

Toby

	26-09-2004 10:01									#32
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Well, there is a definite problem with the border question. «This little square» problem is known from all of us.

There is also the diplomatic interactions to be solved. In fact, I'm pretty satisfied with the kind of diplomacy and freedom we have over it in a game like Victoria (from Paradox) and the EU diplomatic gameplay should be a standard in nowadays strategis games. Civilization III is way behind in terms of Diplomatical options.

Then .... what about those borders ? What about the whole civilization cities thing. If you look at a map, it's not true a country has cities placed in a symetrical way across it's entire continent. I mean, as long as you know 2 cities on the continent, you know pretty much were the other cities will land and it looks like a perfect symetrical pattern were cities have 5 squares in between. If you look at a country like Canada, Mexico or Sweden, most cities are placed were its geographically interesting, were human activity is tangible. If Canada would have followed the Civ kind of way, there would be cities every 2 km squares stretching from the Artic to the United States border. That's crazy, everyone knows that most of, if not 90% of Canadian cities are at most 300-400Km from the United States borders... You see my point ?

	26-09-2004 10:05									#33
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If I'm not mistaken, 90% of Canada's population lives within 100 km of the US border.

	28-09-2004 20:28									#34
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Poor guys.

	28-09-2004 20:28									#35
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

That said, I am living within 100km of France.

	29-09-2004 04:27									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Dauphin That said, I am living within 100km of France.

HAHA

	29-09-2004 16:33									#37
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* Adagio jumps right into this thread without reading most posts

There's one simple solution to the problem with the AI popping a city in the middle of ones nation:

First of all there should be several types of agreements on entering another nations territory:
1) Open borders: All nations may freely cross the borders, you can't kick them out
2) Allies welcome: All your allies may freely cross the borders, you can't kick them out. Nautral nations can cross the borders, but you can kick them out (making it illegal for a specific nation to cross the borders for x turns)*
3) Only allies: Allies are the only nations that may cross the borders*
4) Closed borders: Nobody is allowed in*


* If a nation brakes the rules war will be decleared (or an option for it will popup) against that nation. It'll be seen as the tresspassing nation decleared war...
Kicking a nation out** doesn't start a war

** The nation who was kicked out can't decleare war (for being kicked out)




The second part of the solution to avoid AI building a city in the middle of your nation is:
When building a new city, there's several rules to look at:
A new city should be built near the borders. If the new cities borders doesn't touch borders to other cities (of your nation), the city can't be built
That is unless you're trying to build a new city on an island you don't have any cities on already

	02-10-2004 06:21									#38
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Niptium,

Interesting with all you say- we shouldn't have to make false borders by creating cities just to seal it.

As for the US/Canadian border, doing 'A' level Geography in 1979, our teacher told us (I think) that 75% of the Canadian population lived within 150km of the US border- As it was geography, climate might have played an equal part to trade- they did have that spat over land ownership as well- Canadian/US people's views on it? (As I understand,both built railways to seal the borders and placed Policemen/sheriffs along it for permanance? although the US reasons were a bit different to the dogged Canadian reasons?????) (Our class chose West Africa over North America for the two year course- I think we made a bad choice, but our two tutors were then beholden to our choice.

Back to the game; I think in principle, expanding borders using the current model is fine- just do it by having a city alone- the cultural example is daft, but I don't think the model itself was daft- make the inward expansion occur quickly, and bin (trash) the outward expansion if possible?

Toby?