14-09-2004 23:02									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae The simple heuristic to getting a lot of flips in your favor is to build up a lot of Culture. Sounds simple, but it's usually not. Try this for your next game: play a Religious civ, and build a Temple before anything else in each of your new cities (including your capital!).

That's what I always do when plaing religious. The first few cities close to the capital will almost always have 2 shields per turn, completing a temple in 15 turns (or less, because they usually grow sooner). The difference is, I don't built the temple in my capital just as early, because first it is usually being set up as a settler/worker pump.

quote: Originally posted by Dominae Then set aside one city early on and build as many cheap Wonders as you can there (Colossus, Oracle, Statue of Zeus, etc.). With this strategy you can easily keep up with the AI in Culture on your favorite difficulty level (I've done it up to Demigod).

Up to Emperor, you don't even need all the wonders. Usually the Great Libray will do.

Back on topic of flipping. If you have a great culture compared to your enemies (and I mean great - at least 1,5 times their culture score), you don't really need to starve cities down. Park your victorious army in the city and set it to building a temple or library (whichever is cheaper). The troops will recover while stopping the resisters for good. This usually takes one or two turns, possibly handling any counterattacks that might occur. Without resister and with some shields ready, you can now rush the building. If taking bigger cities, even pop-rushing will not be a problem. Soon the cultural borders of the city will grow, further reducing the risk of flipping. After the cultural building is rushed, leave one defensive unit in the city and move the army to the next target. Rolling invasion, anyone?

	14-09-2004 23:19									#32
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quote: Would you also be loathe to build a new temp city in between your maxxed out ones (I assume you're using 4-tile city placement)? By stealing a couple of Food resources that your other cities do not need, it could easily be a 2-turn pump (I assume, without having seeing the exact geography). This would mess up your Corruption a bit, but the "free" two Workers a turn will really come in handy come the Industrial era, where otherwise you would have to build Workers in your maxxed out cities for RRs. In my first ever Emperor game way back, when I still disliked anything closer than OCP, I bit the bullet and put two temp cities down in the middle of a nice patch of Flood Plains and Hills. To this I attribute my victory (and to Samurai - hey, that's pretty historical: the feudal Japanese peasant/serf and samurai classes).

It's actually a mixture of 3 and 4 tile. Honestly I can't think of a spot for such a temp city, and I don't think that's just me being squeemish about tight spacing. The only city with some spare grassland tiles is Paris, and there is an SGL sitting there waiting to rush Shakespeares in 4 turns. All other cities are either short of tiles, or short of food tiles. I have a fair amount of mountains, plains and deserts in this game. So my options for pump cities are actually rather limited.

If I've got time tonight, I'll post a screenshot. A save probably won't work, because [confession] I'm still using 1.15b. Since I've had dialup and 1.21 didn't seem to be all that much different, I never did download it. That will change as soon as DSL is hooked up (hopefully tomorrow night).

-Arrian

	15-09-2004 00:25									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 That's what I always do when plaing religious. The first few cities close to the capital will almost always have 2 shields per turn, completing a temple in 15 turns (or less, because they usually grow sooner).

If you really want that Culture accumulating ASAP, you could go Warrior (5 turns), plus 10 Shields on a Temple build (5 turns) then poprush the Temple. The Warrior and Temple take care of any unhappiness, and you're back into productive shape in no time.

	15-09-2004 01:03									#34
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I meant One City version of cultural victory. Edited original, adding CV.

quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 "On a map smaller than standard, go for One City with the back up plan being some other mode of victory (usually spaceship.)"

	15-09-2004 01:15									#35
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I'm not a slave to patterns, and just naturally follow what the terraign map is showing.

Around a river of land I settle, you'll often find a 4 X 3 pattern though. (4 tiles one direction, 3 tiles in the other.)

I'm usually optimizing for that long period where all cities are size 12.

	15-09-2004 01:24									#36
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Dominae,

Do you use poprushing when you play? I realized recently that I just about *never* poprush anymore, for two reasons:

1) Pop is power, and generally I'd rather keep my people; and
2) Since I play on Monarch and often play commercial civs, I'm typically able to pull off the writing->code of laws->philo-->republic for free thing, and so I'm outta despotism pretty darn fast.

-Arrian

	15-09-2004 02:55									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian ... as soon as DSL is hooked up (hopefully tomorrow night). -Arrian

	15-09-2004 03:38									#38
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Arrain, it way past time to play some levels that do not allow you to make a bunch of ancient wonders.

You may find it is fun to hear someone build a wonder that is not only from a tech you do not have, but is from an age you have not reached yet.

Ok, that is not fun, but it is when you beat them.

	15-09-2004 05:44									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Back on topic of flipping. If you have a great culture compared to your enemies (and I mean great - at least 1,5 times their culture score), you don't really need to starve cities down. Park your victorious army in the city and set it to building a temple or library (whichever is cheaper). The troops will recover while stopping the resisters for good. This usually takes one or two turns, possibly handling any counterattacks that might occur. Without resister and with some shields ready, you can now rush the building. If taking bigger cities, even pop-rushing will not be a problem. Soon the cultural borders of the city will grow, further reducing the risk of flipping. After the cultural building is rushed, leave one defensive unit in the city and move the army to the next target. Rolling invasion, anyone?

Wow. That's a pretty slow invasion. I pretty much have to starve them, or else just move so fast that the closest city to the capital is constantly moving closer to the capital. I generally have 90% of the population as entertainers asap, leaving enough military to a) protect the city and b) quell resisters inside of 5 turns.

But, i prefer the fast action invasion -- cav or tanks, land 20-30 for starters (2x that if it's a later game and/or a larger map, in 2 drops), take over 2-3 cities the first 2 turns and 1-2 cities a turn after that, depending on geographic realities ...

	15-09-2004 13:24									#40
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quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 Wow. That's a pretty slow invasion.

Yes and no. Remember that these cities become part of my empire very fast. Since my army is often in cities, it can be smaller and still handle counterattacks well. Also, sometimes my core cities stop producing units - the new ones can do that. This is best for taking chunks from a large and well developed enemy with a (relatively) small force. If the cities are small or if the war is going to last 3 turns anyway, there's no use for such slow action.

	15-09-2004 21:51									#41
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I like fast invasions myself.

Want to revolt against me in that captured city with no units??? Fine I'll take the city again with reinforcements that were already heading to the front while my front line keeps moving. Once the last civ belonging to an AI is gone, no more worries about them revolting. (Very, very unhistorically correct, but that's the civ III model.)

I also tend to have a large overall culture ratio because I'm more natually a builder in the ancient and middle age eras.

	17-09-2004 19:37									#42
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quote: Also, sometimes my core cities stop producing units - the new ones can do that

How does this work? I find that the corruption in the border cities is horrid until I can plant a Courthouse - and even then, it is pretty awful. Do folks move their palace to the front lines, and use the Forbidden Palace to keep their core cities running smoothly?

	17-09-2004 19:57									#43
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quote: Originally posted by iamweaver How does this work? I find that the corruption in the border cities is horrid until I can plant a Courthouse - and even then, it is pretty awful. Do folks move their palace to the front lines, and use the Forbidden Palace to keep their core cities running smoothly?

I play large and huge worlds and often build for a long time, before going for a real war. This means that conquered cities are usually close enough to my core to be productive - building cheap units too keep the invasion going. Sun Tzu's is invaluable for such occasions. On standard maps these cities would probably be crappy, except in communism.

	17-09-2004 23:24									#44
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Agreed, Sun Tzu is very valuable for producing vetrans on the front line cities. (Note that these units are probably rushed if more expensive than 30 shields. Those switching to Communist govts also like to pop rush even when not needed for the reduced culture flip possibilities.)

Court Houses & Police Stations are standard builds of mine for most cities. Court Houses + a WLTPD everywhere greatly expands your productive core. Police Stations arrive at the right time where it becomes more much difficult to maintaign a WLTPD on Emperor level and above.

	18-09-2004 04:14									#45
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quote: Police Stations are standard builds of mine for most cities

Has the Universal Sufferage wonder changed, or do folks just normally bypass it? I must admit that I prefer to wait until I have railroads/US before doing a mid-game assault, simply because instant travel means that my reserves can be a much smaller force, or sometimes even unneeded if troops can be run back from the front itself.

	18-09-2004 04:44									#46
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Universal Sufferage hasn't changed. It reduces war-weariness. But Police Stations reduce corruption in addition.

	18-09-2004 08:22									#47
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Universal Suffrage isn't necessary if you're Republic and attack fast enough to prevent any significant WW. I never go to Democracy unless I'm playing a Religious civ, and even then I usually don't because Republic's unit support often makes it the superior option anyways.

	18-09-2004 23:40									#48
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Universal Suffrage is also highly useful for a civ that's Agricutural and mised both Pyramids and Hanging Gardens but does have the other tright GW and wants their GA to start earlier than it would with Hoover Dam. (Especally if Shakesphere's was built early enough for a city to be fairly large and the factory was rushed.)

	19-09-2004 02:44									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Do you use poprushing when you play?

If I'm Religious and I've got some pump cities going, I'll poprush Temples in my outlying (50+% Corrupt) cities. I'll poprush on Demigod and below (usually for cultural improvements) because it's not suicide to do so on those levels and adds spice to the game. I'll also poprush a defender when needed, but this is rarely the case in SP.