24-09-2004 18:57									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Nice, real nice. The city placement in the southern part of your empire matches exactly my choices. Even your Twin Peaks and Port Sludge were cities-in-progress in the parallel universe at that time.

Thanks. Port Sludge is actually an interesting placement. Founding it where I did on FP wastes some food, but the alternative of pushing it one tile to the NW would require an Aqueduct, but of course provide more food. Longer term there will probably be another town on the other side of the mountain, so my current placement makes it a little close, but my preference for early towns is on rivers, since Aqueducts are real *****es to construct in the Ancient/early Middle ages.

Twin Peaks is another that could have been placed 1 tile further from the capital, on the hill. But I figured that I could get more longer term benefit out of mining the hill, so I left it there. This places it closer to the capital. but the capital will be able to "steal" tiles from the towns on the other side (NW) that will eventually be forced to use coastal squares....which will be great for commerce, but effectively nerf their production.

Oh well....when you make a "sea change" as I did several AU games ago and move towards closer spacing, you learn not to worry about production problems in some cities

	24-09-2004 19:01									#32
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 Where's yours Dom? I hope you're playing this game!

I've run into some...troubles, with my savegame/scenario. Took me a bit to figure out what was going on. I'll have to start over.

	24-09-2004 19:05									#33
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Ah, ok. Well, I'm confident that reading these DAR's will have no impact on the way you replay the game

	24-09-2004 19:12									#34
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I've been reading them as I passed the appropriate checkpoints in my own game. But now that I have to start over, I'll definitely have some spoiler information to work on. I'm guessing it's not going to help me much on Deity, though.

	24-09-2004 19:17									#35
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Errrr....no, I guess not

Personally, I think a cultural victory is the hardest (and most daunting) on the highest levels, so I'm looking forward to reading your DAR's when you get back on track.

And without wanting to put any pressure on you Dom, but I have complete confidence in your ability to win this game on Deity!!!

	24-09-2004 19:26									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 Thanks. Port Sludge is actually an interesting placement. Founding it where I did on FP wastes some food, but the alternative of pushing it one tile to the NW would require an Aqueduct, but of course provide more food.

After Delhi grows to size 12, you can steal some Flood Plains terrain from it in order to grow Port Sludge. With mined Deserts it should have decent production.

	24-09-2004 19:37									#37
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Yes, mined deserts + FP makes it average....only marginally better than mined GL. Actually, it's already using all the available FP apart from the Wheat, which the capital needs for the Settler pump. Longer term, Port Sludge will have most of its worked tiles in the sea, more for commerce than production.

Officially, Port Sludge was put there to build Curraghs to explore for other civs, which it has done nicely. Next will be a Harbour to build Galleys and look for the other continent.

Last edited by Aqualung71 on 25-09-2004 at 06:53

	26-09-2004 01:27									#38
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Not really a whole lot more to report for this phase than the last one. I've been continuing to focus on cranking out settlers (with the large amount of space, finishing the REX phase is going to take alot longer than most games, even with all this food around).

My gamble on sending a settler well outside my border to seize the dyes has (as far as I can tell) paid off. Not only do I have all the eastern dyes that I'm aware of, but the Persians are pretty well boxed in. So as long as I avoid ticking them off (at least until I can build up my mil), they won't be a major factor in this game.

1870BC: Trade Writing to Persia in exchange for Iron Working.

1725BC: Found Calcutta next to all three dyes in the eastern jungle. This should cut off the Persians from either expanding too close to me or getting too many luxuries.

1700BC: Trade Writing, Iron Working and 17 gold to China in exchange for Mysticism.

1400BC: Right now I have 9 towns, mainly with 3 cities cranking out settlers and the occasional worker. I've found the incense to the far northwest, and want to try to colonize that entire peninsula before my neighbors can build galleys.

1350BC: Hyderabad founded near the cluster of bananas in the eastern jungle. This should help make Calcutta a little more connected to the rest of the regime.

1300BC: Trade Code of Laws and Wheel to Persia for Literature, then trade CoL and Lit to China for Horseback Riding and all 44 of Mao's gold. China is polite towards me, but Persia remains annoyed.

1275BC: Bengal founded near the bananas and dye to the east.

1250BC: Stupid Chinese demand 22 gold from me. I'm so pathetically weak that I have no choice. I WILL kill Mao for that insult.

1200BC: Trade Horseback to the Persians for Pottery and all his 33 gold. Still annoyed at me.

1125BC: This historian declare us the happiest civ. Gandhi dances for joy. The first town in the western lands, Chittagong, is founded.

1100BC: The town of Punjab is founded next to the horses.

I forgot to get a screenshot at 1000BC, but I found an autosave file from 950BC, which should be close enough. I've got 13 towns, access to 2 luxuries (with a high likelihood of owning the rest of that peninsula and thus that third lux), I'm very competitive in techs with my neighbors, and I'm crushing the competition in culture. On the down side, I'm absurdly weak in mil, so a sneak attack could be devastating. Fortunately, most of my outpost cities are at good choke-points, so I'm not real concerned with a sneak attack on one of my interior cities.

My goals for the next segment are to complete my expansion, get temples (and, when available, libraries)up in every town, and start looking to suicide galley my way to another continent. I may take a run at SoZ, depending on the timing.

Attachment: au504 950bc.jpg
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	30-09-2004 07:52									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian 300 shields for the SoZ which produces AC w/o the hit point bonus... that's a strong nerf. Ouch. Took me forever to build it, and then the payoff isn't really all that good.

Of course, all depends on individual game circumstances, so based on my game Arrian I can't agree with you. My AC ended up being fairly important in my defeat of China. I like to think that even though most of them were killed, they softened up the defences for my Horsies to take out the wounded units I had also pillaged China's Iron, so Pike's weren't an issue.

Also, since I slowed the tech pace to a crawl after Astronomy, then went chasing the optional Wonder techs, I doubt that I'll even get out of the middle ages before my game finishes....meaning I'll be producing AC until the end of the game!

	30-09-2004 10:15									#40
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Plus a city with SOZ has military production covered for the long time. Anything that allows your cities to skip military units will be great in this game.

	30-09-2004 23:17									#41
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AU mod, Emp.

No save from this time period, so it's a little rough and there's no screenshot.

After its temple, Bangalore started a barracks and military, and few other cities all squeezed an archer or spearman here and there. This was good, as the Chinese came up and declared war without provocation. Despite my puny military, one vet spearman killed 3-4 archers/horsemen at the chokepoint directly south of he starting location (on one of the mountains). The other spearman at that choke point fell back to the hill just north and killed about two more incoming units. Beyond that, good luck with the RNG + extremely conservative and efficient use of my few troops + incidental use of the AI moving towards undefended cities exploit, I managed to stave off the Chinese with a good kill ratio and without losing any cities long enough to get peace for ~20gold.

Other than that, during this time period I researched Writing and went for phil. at 50 turns and was 20 turns from it by 1000BC. I likely founded ~5 new cities during this time. Delhi started a prebuild for the SoZ, but we didn't end up trading for Math in time, and ended up building the GLib a few turns after this DAR. (Still got the SoZ in Delhi anyway). The Chinese built the Pyramids in Beijing.

It was also about this time that I decided to deviate from the course a bit. I decided not to capture any cities the I didn't found without a very precise reason (a common variant for me, minus the exception, which there ended up being infuriably many of, as we'll see in the next few DARs.). I did this for a couple reasons:
1. I don't like how similar dom. an culture victories tend to be. Generally, the fastest way to 100k, generally, I would think, is to do HoF style conquest (up to ~65% land) and then rush culture buildings everywhere ASAP. This is practically a domination victory. I wanted to see a more builder focused attempt.
2. I prefer playing with little war.

	30-09-2004 23:57									#42
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quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 1. I don't like how similar dom. an culture victories tend to be. Generally, the fastest way to 100k, generally, I would think, is to do HoF style conquest (up to ~65% land) and then rush culture buildings everywhere ASAP. This is practically a domination victory. I wanted to see a more builder focused attempt.

Still, you will have to conquer somebody at some time. At Emperor any religious or scientific AI will probably bypass you culturally and become impossible to catch without a big war. It's even more so with the AU mod.

quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 2. I prefer playing with little war.

Same here. But this game dictates otherwise, I'm afraid.

	01-10-2004 00:08									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Still, you will have to conquer somebody at some time. At Emperor any religious or scientific AI will probably bypass you culturally and become impossible to catch without a big war.

Well, I was never anywhere close to getting bypassed culturally, though I did end up having to take a few core cities from one civ to prevent them from reaching 50k during the last few turns of my game. The war was far from big, it was a cakewalk.

	03-10-2004 21:28									#44
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thanks A.Lung - great yarn indeed

	04-10-2004 08:00									#45
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Again: notes then comments, with screenshots.

code:


1950BC: Calcutta
1870BC:	Disease strikes Delhi
1830BC: Disease strikes Delhi
	Bangalore completes Temple, begins Granary
1790BC: Lahore
1725BC:	Karachi
1675BC:	Delhi completes Temple, begins Settler
1650BC:	China and Persia discover Writing
1625BC: Writing
 	Karashi poprushes Temple
1600BC: Karashi completes Temple, begins Warrior
1575BC: Arabia completes Colossus
1525BC: Bangalore completes Granary, begins Palace
1500BC: Madras completes Granary, begins Settler
1475BC:	Karachi poprushes Temples
	Karachi completes Temple, begins Worker
1425BC: Kolhapur
1400BC: Lahore completes Temple, begins Barracks
	Jaipur
1325BC:	Hyderabad
1300BC:	Silks
1275BC:	Germany completes Oracle
	Bengal
1225BC:	China completes Pyramids	
	Philosophy
	Code of Laws
	Chittagong
1200BC:	Punjab
	Code of Laws to China for Map Making and The Wheel
	Code of Laws to Persia for Mysticism and 116 Gold
1175BC: Kohlapur completes Temple, begins Barracks
1050BC: Dacca
1025BC: Hyderabad completes Temple, begins Galley
1000BC: Indus
	Ganges

Attachment: au504 - 1000bc - south.jpg
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Last edited by Dominae on 04-10-2004 at 08:49

	04-10-2004 08:01									#46
	Deity - Stock Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

1. The lone Warrior that I had built by 2150BC went South, exploring along the western coast of that big lake and down into Chinese lands. After a short while (and a couple of Roads pillaged!) I called him back up North to try and explore Persia. I did this because I had explored all I could with the Warrior without entering Chinese territory (I did not want irritable Deity Mao to get angry with me), and because I figured there were no more civs to contact down South (this is why it took me so long to contact the Persians in my first "attempt"). The Warrior, of course, saw the second chokepoint, and my next two Settlers were sent to claim each of these.

2. In terms of city development, here's a rough outline (see the screenshots for city locations):

Delhi: Setters every 4 turns
Bombay: Worker every 5 turns (without Granary)
Madras: Workers until enough, Granary, Settlers every 6 turns
Bangalore: Temple, Granary, Wonder prebuild
Lahore: Workers until enough, Temple, Barracks

All other cities built Temples first, via poprush if they were very far from the core (i.e. the two bordering China). I'm now in the midst of getting Barracks up in my productive cities that are not busy doing something else (see Lahore, Kohlapur).

3. The tech race has been going very well for me: I got to Philosophy first, and as of 1000BC the Persians and Chinese only have Horseback Riding over me, and I yet to give them Philo. Here's the exact sequence:

Pottery
Writing (China got it the turn before I did, making it cheaper - thanks!)
Philosophy
Code of Laws (free - thanks!)
Mathematics

I debated whether I should head straight for Republic after Philosophy in order to guarantee myself some trade bait and a government change, or Literature for the Great Library gambit. I ended up choosing neither of these, opting instead to turn "back" for Math. for the Statue of Zeus. As you can see from the screenshot, the timing is just great as I will accumulate 200 Shields the turn after I disover the tech. I'm not sure if this was the best choice among the three options, but there's definitely something to be said for the security of those 4HP Ancient Cavalry.

4. REXing was relatively interesting: the AIs sent a lot of Warrior/Settler pairs into my lands, but some judicious "blocking" kept them away from the sites I knew they were going for, and allowed be to settle the middle of the continent to my satisfaction. This was more of an issue with the Persians than the Chinese because I had the Chinese effectively blocked off down South. Incidentally, doing this little REX dance is one my favorite parts of playing Deity. Then the AIs felt they should walk through my territory to the western lands, which I had yet to explore (but assumed were small due to the Continents setting). So I had to place some cities and a Worker (mining the Iron Mountain - 18 turns!) to discourage them. I like my AIs nice and malleable.

5. Plans for the future include securing the continent, because that's what Brian Boitano would do. Seriously now, it's pretty clear this is the right course, but the devil is in the details. I guess after REX is officially over my cities will build horses, which my magicians will transmute into elephants, and I'll go from there. The interesting part of the game will be trying to keep the AIs off my back long enough, and getting them to go to war with each other. Somehow I need to avoid taking the brunt of the attack from the civ I declare war on, which will be interesting given the sandwich-type geography.

6. China built the Pyramids in 1250BC...

7. Following Aqualung's example, here are some stats:

Population: 43
Settlers: 0 (one next turn)
Workers: 14 (one next turn)

Warriors: 8

Barracks: 1
Granaries: 3
Temples: 7
Wonders: 0 (Statue of Zeus in 2 turns)

Culture: 420/100000

Attachment: au504 - 1000bc - north.jpg
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Last edited by Dominae on 04-10-2004 at 08:59

	05-10-2004 14:49									#47
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Not much to tell... rex, rex and rex again. the mad rush for Philosophy, then the switch to Republic.

1910BC:
Our 1st temple is completed.

1790BC:
Writing researched. Now it’s Philosophy at max. speed.

1725BC:
Bangalore, our 4th city, is founded.

1575BC:
Calcutta, our 5th city, is founded.

1500BC:
Traded Alphabet for IW with China, then Alphabet and 15 gold for The Wheel with Persia.

1450BC:
With Philosophy, we took Mathematics for free and now it’s CoL.

1350BC:
Lahore, our 6th city, is founded.

1225BC:
Karachi, our 7th city, is founded.

1200BC:
Kolhapur, our 8th city, was founded. Traded Writing for HR and 23 gold with China. Established embassies with Persia and China.

1000BC:
Jaipur, our 9th city, is built. After CoL, it’s time to research The Republic.

My rexing is going well. I am ahead in techs and will switch government asap. My neighbours are lying low for now, but I am weary of Persia. Maybe it’s time to crank out some more military.
My screenshots are from 800BC, I forgot (again) to save in 1000BC…
The chokepoints with China are well manned (1 warrior each). I trust them...

Attachment: 800bc1.jpg
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	05-10-2004 14:50									#48
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Our glorious culture. We are the Champions!

Attachment: 800bc2.jpg
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	05-10-2004 14:54									#49
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The rest of the Ancient Times:

800BC:
We completed the Statue of Zeus. Traded Mathematics with China for 80 gold and 2 workers and with Persia for 26 gold. The Spanish completed the Oracle.

710BC:
Chittagong, our 10th city, is completed.

530BC:
Punjab, our 11th city, is founded.

510BC:
The Celts completed the Colossus and the Carthaginians the Great Lighthouse.

470BC:
Dacca, our 12th city, is founded. Traded CoL with China for Mysticism and 96 gold and for Map Making with Persia.

470BC:
Indus, our 13th city, is founded.

410BC:
The Mausoleum of Mausollos completed.

310BC:
We switched to Republic.

290BC:
Ganges, our 14th city, is founded.

210BC:
Arabia completed the Hanging Gardens.

170BC:
Pune, our 15th city, is founded.

90BC:
The Celts completed the Temple of Artemis.

70BC:
China completed the Great Wall.

50BC:
With Polytheism, we entered a new age and are the 1st one on our continent.
Our goals are quite clear: built all wonders and keep ahead in techs. If some neighbour gets bothersome, kill it. Ghandi is a simple man who likes simple concepts…

	11-10-2004 23:14									#50
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Not much happened in this second block. Here are my notes, but I got lazy and probably missed some events...

code:
2190BC: Writing Completed, going for Philosophy
1990BC: Settler done in Bombay. To set on the hill on the eastern chinese chokepoint
1830BC: Calcutta Founded
1725BC: Trade Alphabet to both tribes in exchange for Mas, WC, BW and The Wheel and 20 gold.
1675BC: Lahore settled near the dyes.
1250BC: Karachi founded.
1200BC: Kolhapur founded on the other chinese chokepoint. Colossus started in Calcutta
1150BC: Jaipur founded in attempt to steal dyes from the Persians by Culture. 
1025BC: Hyderabad founded. Bengal founded

In 975bc, I have 670 culture points, 360 in Delhi alone... My closest competitor, China has 144.

I made a big mistake. When I started philo, I saw that there was nothing to gain to research at 100%, so I researched at 10% because the number of turns estimated was the same. Now that I have woke up, it's too late, as even my 100% science right now won't do a thing. I might get it first, but I am afraid...

Apart from that, there is pretty much nothing going on... I'm still expanding, but I feel that my military is too thin for my taste... But I'm average vs China and strong vs Persia, so I don't need to worry... yet!

Attachment: 1000bc.gif
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	11-10-2004 23:18									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

In 975 bc, I have

11 cities (1 settler done in 5 turns)
9 workers (1 done in 2 turns)
16 warriors
2 archers
4 spearmen

+28 gold coming in per turn (at 9.1.0)
Philosophy in 9 turns

Going back to play some more!

--Kon--

Attachment: 1000bc-demo.gif
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	12-10-2004 17:34									#52
	SafaN's Try Got spare money?

I'm very impressed with the other reports. Seems i'm very behind in city building. I have no bad feeling about it, but then thats mayb why i can't win on emperor

Monarch with AU mod:

2070 BC
chinese warrior in the south, i have 3 techs more. But they have more power then the persians

1990 BC
Traded the wheel with the chinese for pottery and cb. The persians have it already so no brokering

1700 BC
Not much news: Ivory connected, a granary build in Salt Lake, minimal defences

1625 BC
Lake Dyes founded, working on a road connection
Persia Completely charted, now waiting for Iron Working

1525 BC
Salt lake is ready to pump settlers, so Capital is building Pyramids for Zeus

1450 BC
The Old Forest is founded, toward the persians

1425 BC
The Chinese have also ivory, when Math is reasearched we can't trade it, Both persia and china have iron working :/

1200 BC
Chinese and persians have also writing and HBR, Math in 3 turns

1125 BC
Math! Zeus in 13 turns, and Chinese and Persia won't be close by a cascade. So i Gamble to trade: Tech parity, Going for philosophy now. While building up Military, we need to settle the western land before Galleys.
Persia has 2 sources of iron whitin his borders :/ We have 1, none are connected, China has a horse connected. I'm no sure who's gonna be the first target. Persia is lower in score now.

1000 BC
Score: China 240, India 231, Persia 214
China has iron and horses (phear the rider)
Persia has no connections to iron (yet)
No wonders build yet, China started a zeus, but it should be to late.
Guess i'll eliminate China before the riders come. I will also try to force a despotic golden age for the persians.
Persia has Literature and Mysti. (No GL started) Will i come too late for philosophy?
I have much work to do. The game is not bad, but not good either.

PS im very concerned about my tech choice: nobody else decided to research math first. Well we will see how it will turn out.

Attachment: 1000 bc.jpg
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	14-10-2004 12:10									#53
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Monarch, AU mod

The advice I received from my first DAR was workers and granaries much earlier! Granaries seem to be my achillies heal because I never want to build them (throw back from Civ 1). I’m going to plow ahead with my original strategy to see where it takes me. I think I’ll replay this game again using the granary and worker rush strategy.

So here is the next 40 turns

2070 BC Gain “Writing” Decide to slow research Philosophy (10%)
Found Calcutta
2030 BC Found Lahore
1910 Meet China, trade for The Wheel
1790 Delhi builds settler, sent north
1750 Madrias builds settler which I send east, and I begin a worker.
1700 Found Karachi on top of Dyes in N
1575 Whip temple in Calcutta

1300 Persian warrior refuses to leave upon 2nd request… fear war is emanate (sooner than I hoped). I am whipping Karachi in N into building a spearman for next turn

1275 BC Ask Persia to leave, they declare war.
Build embassy with China and sign military alliance against Persia (pay “writing” and 235 g)
Switch Bombay to Spearman (lose 8 shields)
Switch Delhi to Barracks

1225 BC Risky found Bengal in East unprotected

1200 Have to quit work on mine to move worker out of danger. 2 Persian warriors in my territory. I do not have Warrior Code to build archers.

1175 Spearman defends off warrior attack at Karachi (Rename as 1st Infantry for honor)

1150 Delhi switchs barracks to granary at last minute

1125 Chinese forces begin to enter my territory, heading north
Send spearman E toward Bengal

1075 Begin prebuild of Great Library in Delhi (with Pyramids)

1025 Madras is worker factory
Karachi will be attacked by 2 warriors

1000 Karachi survives attack. Switch Bombay to Palace to prebuild wonder.

War will continue indefinitely, but I am not too worried. I think my 3 or 4 spearman should suffice. (am I crazy?) Suggestions for my move into the middle ages?

Attachment: culture dar 1000 bc.jpg
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	17-10-2004 06:15									#54
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2030 Bangalore founded, starts Warrior.

Chinese: trade Alphabet for Wheel.
Persians: trade Alph and Wheel for Bronze and WarCode.

1910 Ivory connected
Calcutta founded, starts Temple.
Madras builds Warrior, starts Temple.

1870 Bangalore builds Warrior that goes exploring south. Starts Warrior.

1790 Persians start Pyramids.

1700 Bangalore builds Wrrior, starts Temple
Lahore founded, starts warrior.

The Persians demand 5 gold (all my gold!) and I have to give in because there's no way I can defend myself

1675 The Chinese demand 4 gold (again, all I have) and again I pay up. But every hope of peacefully sharing a continent with them has just been blown out of the window.
Bombay builds Granary and begins building a long series of workers.

1650 Discovery of Writing. I get a SGL!! And this is where I made a big mistake that would cost me 47 shields later on. Madras finishes a Temple and starts building the Pyramids as a pre-build for the Great Library. I decided to keep the SGL to rush the GL but I should have rushed the Pyramids instead

Checking the Foreign Advisor: the Chinese have Mysticism and the Persians have Iron Working.

1600 Lahore builds Warrior, starts Temple.

1575 Persians: trade Writing for Iron Working.

1525 Bangalore builds Temple, starts Barracks.

1475 Karachi founded in Jungle next to Dyes. Starts Warrior.
Hut:barbs.

1350 Kolhapur founded, starts Warrior.

1325 Lahore builds Temple, starts barracks.
Hut: barbs.

1275 Bangalore builds barracks, start Warrior.

1250 Jaipur founded, starts Warrior.
Calcutta builds Temple, starts Warrior.
Karachi builds Warrior, starts Temple.

China finishes the Colossus.

1150 Discover Lit, researching Philosophy. Set science to 10% because of the upcoming upgrade of warriors to swords. Madras changes to Library and loses 47 shields
Hyderabad founded, starts warrior.

1125 Madras builds library, starts Great Lib.
Lahore builds Barracks, starts Spearman.
Calcutta builds Warrior, starts Curragh.
Kolhapur builds Warrior, starts Temple.

1100 Madras builds Great Lib with help of the SGL, starts worker.

1075Mysticism and Map Making from the GL.

1050 Madras builds worker, starts barracks.

1000 BC I'm weak compared to both the Chinese and the Persians.

The Persians have 0 gold, 9 cities and are cautious.
The Chinese have 4 gold, 10 cities, have horses and iron connected and are polite.

Moi: 146 gold, 24 gpt, 80% tax, 10% science, 10% happiness.
Culture: 528 and 17 per turn.
Units: 1 Settler, 14 Workers, 14 Warriors and 1 Spearman.

Attachment: 1000bc.jpg
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	17-10-2004 18:25									#55
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quote: Originally posted by freud24 War will continue indefinitely, but I am not too worried. I think my 3 or 4 spearman should suffice. (am I crazy?) Suggestions for my move into the middle ages?

Defense won't be enough. You need all the land you can get, including the so-called Persian and Chinese territories. I suggest you start thinking about a serious offensive war.