02-11-2004 02:15									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by MyOlde I'm playing a Standard map now and coal is so far away (and belongs to others) that I haven't a hope of ever getting it. And the AI won't run roads to it so that I could even trade for it!

This sparked a thought that is a bit off topic, but I'll go ahead and share it anyhow.

One option in that kind of situation might be to sign a ROP agreement, send over your own workers to build the needed road, and then arrange a deal. If the AI has more than one copy of the resource and you complete the road during your turn (making sure it's linked up to the AI's trade network), you should be guaranteed a chance to negotiate a deal before the AI can trade it to someone else. Then, as long as the AI doesn't go to war with you (and assuming you're willing and able to pay), you can keep negotiating a new trade every twenty turns.

I'm not sure how the timing sequence works out if your workers complete the road in between turns. If the road counts as finished at the end of your turn, the AI might get a chance to trade the resource between the time the road is finished and the time you get a chance to negotiate the deal. If that's the case, the trick would be either to use enough workers to build the final link in the road in a single turn or to have enough extra workers join the project when it is almost finished to finish it during your turn. (For example, on a nine-turn road, two workers could road for four turns and a third worker could then finish it during the player's turn.)

Note that I haven't actually tried this strategy to gain the ability to trade for a resource. But it seems like it ought to work, at least unless something's screwy about when trade route connection calculations are performed.

	02-11-2004 02:28									#32
	Got spare money?

Orrrr.....

JUST GO KICK THEIR *SS!!!

	02-11-2004 09:56									#33
	Got spare money?

It was hard enough to get the Iron Works in PTW, I have never had the opportunity to build it in Conquests.

	04-11-2004 01:45									#34
	Support Apolyton

Only once on a random map, but at least it was in a city that wasn't too corrupt.

	04-11-2004 02:21									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

The few times I've got the cance at all it mostly is greatly affected by corruption or the city gives too little shield output for me to be able to build it at all.

	06-11-2004 09:39									#36
	Put an end to popups!

I thought this was funny. The other day Im playing Civ3 and finally iron works pops up, first time in a long time! But of course they city that can build it is at the far reaches of my empire so the corruption is uber high. I start it anyways and it shows that itll take 75 turns to complete.... so as time goes on I finally get down to about 22 turns left, WHEW! But then uh-oh, war breaks out and its me and 2 allies against 4 other civs, and what do the evil bastids do!?! THEY SABOTAGE PRODUCTION OF THE CITY BUILDING IRON WORKS!!! bahaha... so a couple dozen turns later I got a GL from a TOW Inf. and hurried the production... :P

	06-11-2004 11:01									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

poetic justice - sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's actually a good idea, probably one of the top uses for a MGL at that stage of the game.

	06-11-2004 19:39									#38
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Yay!! Just built it in a fairly good core city... with a Factory, it's a great city to pre-build Hoovers.

	06-11-2004 19:55									#39
	Increase Your PM Length

The higher the difficulty you play, the less resources you have in your territory. You are basicaly forced to play a warlike strategy and go conquer the tiles you need. The current game I'm played, not one Civ is able to build Iron Works. In the last game I played, I had to go out on conquer the citiy that had coal & iron near it but not in it. So using 3 transports loaded with Elite Inf., Tanks, and Artillery, plus a settler and a couple of workers. I captured the target city, razed it (since it was a size 25 city I got a lot of captured workers from doing that), cleared the surrounding area of the enemy and 2 smaller cities (more workers), built my own city so that coal & iron are in the radius, and than rush built Forbidden Palace to eliminate 99% of the corruption than followed with another rush to build Iron Works.

Forbidden Palace/Iron Works is one helluva combo. I always dely building the Forbidden Palace with the hopes that I have the opportunity to build Iron Works.

	07-11-2004 00:32									#40
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I haven't built or seen the IW since I got the 1.22 patch. Hardly seen it since I got Conquests.
I assume its just coincidence, and someday, yes someday, I will see iron and coal in the same city radius. But I will only see it from afar, as if in a dream, because it will be a dream. C3C killed the Iron Works, but at least we got bananas

	12-11-2004 07:03									#41
	Suffering from ads?

I never did think Bananas were much of a resource improvement....

Only got them in jungles and would not be too useful unless you chopped the jungle and did something with the grassland left.

	12-11-2004 16:55									#42
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by barbeerhj I never did think Bananas were much of a resource improvement....

Registered Apolyton members should get a +1 bonus for bananas.

	13-11-2004 04:05									#43
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Vince278 Registered Apolyton members should get a +1 bonus for bananas.

PolyPlus members +2!

	13-11-2004 23:51									#44
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

It doesn't look to me like number of strategic and luxary resources on the map has anything to do with the difficulty level.

Now, at higher levels the AI REX advantage is more pronouced both from it's extra settlers and higher production.

I did note that it's only the first settler the AI always wants to found in place on the replay of Mesopotana. (All civs including myself founded the first settler on turn 1. Most including myself founded the second one on turn 2 and the last one on turn 3.)

	16-11-2004 05:37									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I'm sorry I didn't take any screenies - I will sound like some big-a** Munchausen liar - but yes, I played in a map that had no less than 3 (THREE - DREI - TRÊS - TRES) different places with iron and coal so close to hook up to make a IW city. That felt like some kind of waste of luck.

edit: typo

Last edited by pedrojedi on 16-11-2004 at 09:07

	02-12-2004 10:52									#46
	Suffering from ads?

My first time ever and in a core city! Chieftain level probably helped And yes yes i know my city spacings are wide.

Attachment: ironworks1.jpg
This has been downloaded 76 time(s).

	02-12-2004 12:27									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

What is the name of the city behind that musketman on the left? Sorry, but it's bugging me. It looks like slave cave, lol.

	02-12-2004 12:39									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Slave Camp 3. I got ten or so of those. Mostly cities that have flipped over to me. Now they are worker pumps

Also have you ever posted a screenie? What size do you usually use (pxls)? I thought that 800*800 were the limit but mine end up looking smaller than others

	02-12-2004 12:53									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Hehe, I think you should give each slave camp it's own name, like 'laborers of love' and 'miner town'.

I usually photoshop my screens down to the bare minimum and make them as small as possible yet still be legible. But that's just me.

	02-12-2004 14:11									#50
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

This is a stupid question but I have to ask. What do you do with them when they are no longer churning out captured workers?? I'm assuming you abandon it??? Other wise your just producing native workers and they add to your support total. Besides, having a slave camp next to an Iron Works isn't maximizing that cities potential.

	02-12-2004 16:15									#51
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Native Workers are good for blitz-growing own cities by adding them, especially if you have Railroads to do it on the same turn they are built. And if the Iron Works city is using mostly Mines, leaving the camp there shouldn't be a problem.

	02-12-2004 22:50									#52
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by chuckdelicious Hehe, I think you should give each slave camp it's own name, like 'laborers of love' and 'miner town'. I usually photoshop my screens down to the bare minimum and make them as small as possible yet still be legible. But that's just me.

Heh I guess I'm not creative, I just want to get on the game.

I want my screenies to be large as possible so my fans can adore my works

	02-12-2004 23:04									#53
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Muad'Dib This is a stupid question but I have to ask. What do you do with them when they are no longer churning out captured workers?? I'm assuming you abandon it??? Other wise your just producing native workers and they add to your support total. Besides, having a slave camp next to an Iron Works isn't maximizing that cities potential.

Not a stupid question. I'm still learning the game - this is my mmm third Epic game I believe.

Actually what happened was that when those cities started to flip over to me, I had gold flow problems. I had been rexxing too rapidly at the expense of neglecting my tile developments and also my cities were too stretched out so corruption was a big issue. So I was steadily losing gold so I placed those camps on wealth. It helped to slow down the gold hemorrhaging. Looking back, my mistake at that time was that I decided to focus on building FP to help with corruption in a city surrounded by jungle tiles. Since I did not have any leaders, FP would have to be built brick by brick so I had workers clearing away jungles and improving tiles which tied up a lot of manpower. I should have, instead, focused on developing other core cities whose tiles are easier to develop. Also I had this tendency to focus on culture-producing improvements and only built courthouse after I finished all available culture-producing improvements. Now I realize that I should have done the courthouse first before at least undertaking some major culture-producing improvements such as Colosseum and University.

I did not have those 'slave camps' produce workers until very recently right before when I discovered Steam Power (for railroads) so by then, those cities have already gone native.

I probably will just disband those cities after I've completed railroading all vital tiles. I could take Modo44's suggestion (I knew of it but it didn't occur to me to use this tactic) but I'm sure by then the game will be nearly over if not already. This game is on 540 turns limit and I'm on around 470th turn.

For my next epic game, I plan to set up a thread with screenies and saves so you guys can give me feedback, input, criticism, suggestions, or whatever

	05-12-2004 03:08									#54
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Very cool Barinthus. I've started and finished another epic game since posting this thread. No iron works possible...anywhere on the map

My luck I guess.

	05-12-2004 16:00									#55
	Increase Your PM Length

Thanks but it's nothing impressive I suppose considering it's just a Chieftain game.

Wow you're faster at playing this game than I am. I've been very busy lately although and haven't been able to sit down and play for few weeks. I started the current epic game early October.

	14-12-2004 20:51									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: [SIZE=1] ... Forbidden Palace/Iron Works is one helluva combo. I always dely building the Forbidden Palace with the hopes that I have the opportunity to build Iron Works.

Seems like a very strong combo indeed

Which still leaves me wondering how smart it is to delay the FP until railroads. Normally I just build the FP on first opportunity as IW sites are so rare anyway.

	15-12-2004 03:02									#57
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

As I was quoted saying above and in past replies, the FP is not important to me unless I can combine it with the IW.