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tomasjj
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Hmm.
I have been visiting the site off and on for a couple of years. (Currently playing at Emperor level.)
The last months I have been playing some of the the Conquest/Game of the Month features at Civfanatics, but Apolyton was the first civ site/community I was following.
I must say that I wasnt playing civ for the period when AU was set up and ran its first courses.
The concept of a civ course here at AU with a balance of fun/learning sounds intriguing. However, when I see the debate on what kind of restraints the next course is supposed to be set up with it doesnt make me want to play. I mean, "having to build your cities so-and-so" "no wonders" and so on. In my view this seriously takes the fun out of the game, and there must be other ways to get an intriguing and good learning experience out of CC. (I.e. moding the map, resource allocation, rival civs, victory condition and so on.)
The learning experience doesnt necessarily have to come from the actual playing of the game, but from the discussions of strategies and priorities before, during (for instance after each era) and after the game.
I understand that me not having participated in the earlier courses, not having experienced the ups and downs of the earlier courses, might mean that I have missed important parts regarding this issue.
JJ
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Theseus
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The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:20
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Hey, I have a new idea:
How 'bout we do our OWN Conquest? The AU Ancient Europe Scenario?
I've posted in a couple of places (including the dreaded OT forum  ) that I have started on a lengthy reading of ancient historical fiction, starting with Crete and working my way forward up through the Mongols.
Here is the OT link:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...ghlight=Ancient
I also posted in the Creation forum and contacted LouLong at CFC to see if anyone had created such a map or scenario... unfortunately, nothing dead on for my purposes.
The C3C civs I would think to be involved:
England
Celts
The Germanic Tribes
Rome
Greece
Persia
Egypt
Carthage
Mongols
Vikings (maybe, if we wanted to extend a bit forward)
The key, I think, would be a really great RW map centered on the Med.
We could, of course, as in RL, introduce some of the diplo aspects that have been discussed... or define our own form of special 'Conquest' win.
Thoughts?
Edit: It also occurs to me that this could potentially be played in both SP and MP concurrently, depending on the goals of each.
Edit: I am sure we could also enlist the guys in Creation or at CFC to help us design a map to start with.
Last edited by Theseus on 08-11-2004 at 21:14
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Theseus
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The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:20
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Yeah, I thought of some other things too:
* Give Babylon (sorry, forgot them at first) and Egypt some kind of early edge (two Settlers?) but ding them somehow to represent the relatively early decline of their eras.
* Change Byzantines (sorry, forgot them too) to Crete/Minoa
* Give Carthage War Elephants at 3.2.1, a little earlier than Chivalry... Construction? Or maybe change Ancient Cavs to WEs, and give Carthage the only ivory?
* Really isolate the Celts, Germans, and Mongols, but give them the opportunity to build empires that can be significant players at the right times.
As to SP versus MP, I would suggest doing a fully loaded SP version with as many civs as make sense historically, and than create a subset version for MP.
And yes, there should be specific theme(s)... that's what I was referring to by adding diplo aspects, but we could focus on other things as well. Heck, we could even have a specific theme or objective per civ!! 
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Dominae
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I do understand that you can have fun in PBEMs without being competitive; that you can win without "winning". I have enjoyed every single PBEM I have ever played in, although I have never outright won any. If the "future of PBEM" is that everyone plays for fun, I do believe it is already here. Competition (pitting yourself against others) is the common ground that allows players to have fun.
I do not believe the fun and "realistic" PBEM Nathan was describing would have worked out as intended. What really cramps one person's "fun" is when another person knocks on their door with 60 Cavalry. Then in a blink of an eye all the work you put into your empire and the diplomatic relations you have tried to maintain become sort of meaningless unless you can defend yourself, and thus we enter the realm of competition.
Of course, you could certainly still enjoy the game via the whole stories or roleplaying angle. Many players do so. But AU is about Civ3 strategy, and I do not believe a purely roleplaying-motivated fits in here. I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm stifling the fun of AU, but I do believe this forum should retain some focus. Interested roleplaying players can always start their own game without the AU label.
I am very open to the idea that I still do not "get it", so please explain it to me further if this is the case.
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Modo44
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in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:20
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You missed one point, I think. The whole idea is, nobody has to knock at your door. If you don't play to win by victory conditions, the roleplaying itself can be fun. There is no "need" to attack the strongest civ, because nobody considers it a threat to his win. Of course, if someone wants a war, he can have it anyway. But things like long lasting alliances breaking down with a clash, completely unprovoked, and useless attacks, aimed only at damaging the opponent - are not likely to happen in this kind of game. Basically, you are not forced to become enemies with someone, just because of game mechanics (i.e. victory conditions).
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by Modo44
You missed one point, I think. The whole idea is, nobody has to knock at your door. If you don't play to win by victory conditions, the roleplaying itself can be fun. |
quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
Of course, you could certainly still enjoy the game via the whole stories or roleplaying angle. Many players do so. But AU is about Civ3 strategy, and I do not believe a purely roleplaying-motivated fits in here. I'm sorry if this sounds like I'm stifling the fun of AU, but I do believe this forum should retain some focus. Interested roleplaying players can always start their own game without the AU label.
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There is something distinctly unstrategic about not playing to win; how can you "strategically" play for fun? It is for this reason we have Strategy, Apolyton University, Stories and PBEM forums. Why mix them up?
Last edited by Dominae on 16-12-2004 at 19:35
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07-11-2004 09:12
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