06-11-2004 03:00									#61
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

No they don't. Whatever the cause of the job loss, the question is how the "Bush recovery" compares to say, the recovery from the previous 1991 recession. Given the huge amounts of spending pumped in by the government, in three years of massive deficit spending, the loss of jobs has not been made up, and as Bush always points out, the rate of unemployment is not historically high, so for Bush to break even he did not have to achieve anything even close to historic. He failed.

	06-11-2004 04:13									#62
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How can any sane person blame any fluctuation in the economy to any president?
The economy goes up and down despite the administration that's sitting in Washingthon, Paris, London, Berlin, Moscow, Beijng, New Delhi, Brussels, Amsterdam, Madrid, etc. etc. etc.

Pherhaps the US administration can influence this economic fluctuation by some tens of percents.
But it's foolish to blame Bush for lost jobs or gained jobs.

Everywhere in the world people blame their administration for the economic downfall in the past 4 years.
Oh well, pherhaps people just don't notice that fluctuation in the economy are the natural thing that happen, worldwide. Some countries go down earlier and rise earlier (China, Argentinia, etc.) and others fall later and rise later.

It's a common basic law in economics.
Don't be an idiot, don't blame Bush for the job you lost. Don't praise Bush either for the job you gained.

	06-11-2004 04:24									#63
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy How can any sane person blame any fluctuation in the economy to any president?

Tax cuts, not extending unemployment, talking the economy down, reappointing Greenspan, etc. This president has had extraordinary influence on the economy, almost all bad.

	06-11-2004 04:35									#64
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Of course not. The economy was doomed to go down in the year 2000. Despite the rumors of the 'new economy'
The economy would've fallen anyway, and it did fall worldwide.

The fall started earl 2001. Bush could never have influenced that.

I don't want to end your dream, but elect a president for topics like security, moral values, laws and international politics. But NEVER for economic reasons. That's plain silly.

	06-11-2004 05:11									#65
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I'll thank Bush for my job with the postal service.

	06-11-2004 05:20									#66
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I'm working so much that I'm here on a Saturday. Thanks, Bush!

	06-11-2004 05:36									#67
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To those who say 'wohoo I got a pay rise, bush is great!';

Almosty all of you in the workforce will be making bigger pay rises than the average - this is due to the fact that you are all getting older and into the prime of your earning potential (the average wage rises steadily untill around age 50-55).

So basically you are suffering from money illusion by saying that things are ok because you are.

Imagine just how much more you would have made if the US labour market had perfomed as it used to (there seems to have been a sea-change around 10 to 15 years ago).

	06-11-2004 05:43									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian It's Dauphin who is a Brit, although IIRC he's in Austrialia. -Arrian

AFAIK he's back in the UK.

	06-11-2004 07:43									#69
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quote: Originally posted by el freako To those who say 'wohoo I got a pay rise, bush is great!'; Almosty all of you in the workforce will be making bigger pay rises than the average - this is due to the fact that you are all getting older and into the prime of your earning potential (the average wage rises steadily untill around age 50-55).

Well, I did get a 22% raise 2 weeks ago.

	06-11-2004 09:12									#70
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Laissez les bons temps rouler!

	06-11-2004 09:48									#71
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The decline of the dollar means that I'm making almost 10% more in dollar terms than I was in January. Thank you Bush for your irresponsible fiscal spending that has helped fuel this

	06-11-2004 13:32									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko The decline of the dollar means that I'm making almost 10% more in dollar terms than I was in January. Thank you Bush for your irresponsible fiscal spending that has helped fuel this

Ditto. Thanks, Bush!

	06-11-2004 13:50									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon This is irrelevant. The unemployment rate actually went up. So that's a big F for Bush.

Exactly, this number is irrelevent

It's like a company that boasts it grew revenue by 15%.

Even though profit went down.

	06-11-2004 14:30									#74
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10th time's the charm eh dan? try try again. at least we are back to zero from 4 years ago.

	06-11-2004 23:22									#75
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You guys are funny. Wailing. Gnashing teeth. Beating of breasts. All for 450,000 new jobs!

	06-11-2004 23:34									#76
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy Of course not. The economy was doomed to go down in the year 2000. Despite the rumors of the 'new economy' The economy would've fallen anyway, and it did fall worldwide.

That's not the same thing as saying "How can any sane person blame any fluctuation in the economy to any president?" While the overall economic cycle may not be affected by the Prez, his decisions have an effect on the length, depth, timing etc. of such cycles, as well as the impact of those cycles on people.

	06-11-2004 23:35									#77
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So how much is Bush kicking himself that this report didn't appear on the 1st?

	06-11-2004 23:37									#78
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quote: Originally posted by DanS You guys are funny. Wailing. Gnashing teeth. Beating of breasts. All for 450,000 new jobs!

A large percentage of which were for rebuilding and cleaning up Florida. This had little to do with Bush. Frankly, our economy would probably be better off if our economy wasn't trashed by the hurricanes.

	06-11-2004 23:41									#79
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc So how much is Bush kicking himself that this report didn't appear on the 1st?

Probably not very much, since it might have been viewed with extreme suspcion.

	07-11-2004 03:20									#80
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quote: This had little to do with Bush.

It kills y'all that Bush can take some credit for more people getting jobs. I never heard any Republicans BAM about more jobs during Clinton's tenure.

These are non-partisan jobs!

	07-11-2004 03:23									#81
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quote: I never heard any Republicans BAM about more jobs during Clinton's tenure.

Here you go Dan:

"All of Clinton's job gains were because of the ecomomic bubble and, therefore, were not 'real' jobs."

Glad I could oblige!

	07-11-2004 03:26									#82
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I never heard any Republicans BAM about more jobs during Clinton's tenure.

I'll follow JohnT's lead.

The jobs under Clinton came only after the Republicans took control of Congress. The recession became inevitable when Clinton won the budget battle.

So there!

	07-11-2004 03:28									#83
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Doesn't count. You guys are saying this after Clinton's tenure.

	07-11-2004 03:30									#84
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quote: Originally posted by DanS It kills y'all that Bush can take some credit for more people getting jobs. I never heard any Republicans BAM about more jobs during Clinton's tenure. These are non-partisan jobs!

Because these jobs suck. The majority are temporary, low paying and without health insurance or other benefits. Small businesses are getting such a kick in the ass from this economy they're afraid to hire anyone on more than an extremely temporary basis.

These aren't the kind of jobs Clinton helped to bring in. These jobs suck.

	07-11-2004 03:35									#85
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quote: These aren't the kind of jobs Clinton helped to bring in.

Yes, Clinton "brought in" (cute phrase that!) untenable, overpaid jobs like web-designing, IPO-merchandising, and the like... all jobs that disappeared as soon as the bubble burst.

	07-11-2004 03:52									#86
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT quote: These aren't the kind of jobs Clinton helped to bring in. Yes, Clinton "brought in" (cute phrase that!) untenable, overpaid jobs like web-designing, IPO-merchandising, and the like... all jobs that disappeared as soon as the bubble burst.

Thats why I said he helped bring in.

And so what? I'd much rather a high paying "bubble" job for a few years than six months on a construction site in Florida for peanuts and no benefits.

	07-11-2004 03:54									#87
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn And so what? I'd much rather a high paying "bubble" job for a few years than six months on a construction site in Florida for peanuts and no benefits.

Sure. That way you can have a fat mortgage and car payment to bankrupt.

Pure democratic thinking. Don't ever look at the long term consequences of your actions...

	07-11-2004 03:54									#88
	Got spare money?

Construction isn't such a bad job.

	07-11-2004 03:57									#89
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT quote: These aren't the kind of jobs Clinton helped to bring in. Yes, Clinton "brought in" (cute phrase that!) untenable, overpaid jobs like web-designing, IPO-merchandising, and the like... all jobs that disappeared as soon as the bubble burst.

Not really

The information technology growth that spurred the productivity revolution resulted in a technology jobs that stayed put

Someone has to take care care of all that infrastructure

	07-11-2004 04:04									#90
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Construction isn't such a bad job.

It's seasonal and doesn't pay very well, lots of mandatory overtime, its dangerous, and given the large number of illegals in the industry, workers often get screwed.