11-11-2004 08:40									#31
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Atheist, freethinker, rationalist, or godless heathen

	11-11-2004 08:41									#32
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I'm agnostic. I think to be an atheist one needs to believe in god's non-existence.

My think is: if god exist, good; if don't, good too.

He/her don't blame me, I don't blame him/her.

	11-11-2004 08:46									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Atheist, freethinker, rationalist, or godless heathen

All of the above for me too. I find I agree with the tenets of humanism too, though I am not intimately familiar with them.

And technically an atheist can either actively reject the idea of god (believe in god's non-existence) or merely lack a belief in god. These are hard- and soft-atheists, respectively (to use the venacular of the atheist community).

I am a soft-atheist in this sense, though if I had to make a wager I'd naturally bet on the side of non-existence.

-Drachasor

	11-11-2004 08:51									#34
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athiests are not freethinkers

	11-11-2004 08:54									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident athiests are not freethinkers

free·think·er Audio pronunciation of "freethinker" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (frthngkr)
n.

One who has rejected authority and dogma, especially in religious thinking, in favor of rational inquiry and speculation.



Not all atheists are freethinkers, and not all freethinkers are athiests, but there is a non-empty intersection. I'll also have you know that you can come on in, the water is fine.

-Drachasor

	11-11-2004 09:04									#36
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Wow, this I didn't anticipate.

I'm a member of the Mennonite Brethren, who are Evangelical Protestants.

The question of why is a good one. When I went to university, I had a friend not only work with me to try to teach me about Christ, and the bible, but he also encouraged me to go to his church.

When I went there, I felt like I had found what I was looking for even though I hadn't known really what that was before I went. So I confessed to Christ there, and joined a year later in baptism.

	11-11-2004 09:45									#37
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I'm LDS.

	11-11-2004 09:49									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Wow, this I didn't anticipate. I'm a member of the Mennonite Brethren, who are Evangelical Protestants.

I was raised in the Mennonite church.

	11-11-2004 09:56									#39
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How did you find that?

I've not had the privilege.

	11-11-2004 09:56									#40
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quote: Some religions are secular, like Buddhism. They've got alot of really great and insightful aspects to them.

But Buddhism is a way of life rather than a religion - atleast some would say that.
I would say that Buddhism can only be classified as a religion under the broadest definition of religion. It doesn't involve religion type things like god, worship, saviours, holy wars, conversion at swordpoint etc...
Then again, you probably would write "Buddhism" under "Religion" in the census.

I'd say that Buddhism is as much a religion as Materialism. (but ofcourse, much better)

	11-11-2004 10:03									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris Believing in having a soul is clearly religious

So what you're saying is that it's religious for me to simply believe in the existence of a 'soul', even though I am refusing to 'sell my soul' and conform to any religion?

'Religious' and 'Spiritual' don't always have to go hand in hand, you know.

	11-11-2004 10:12									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Jethro83 So what you're saying is that it's religious for me to simply believe in the existence of a 'soul', even though I am refusing to 'sell my soul' and conform to any religion? 'Religious' and 'Spiritual' don't always have to go hand in hand, you know.

This is a false distinction, as a 'religion' is simply a succesfull set of 'spiritual' beliefs.

	11-11-2004 10:46									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Wow, this I didn't anticipate. I'm a member of the Mennonite Brethren, who are Evangelical Protestants. The question of why is a good one. When I went to university, I had a friend not only work with me to try to teach me about Christ, and the bible, but he also encouraged me to go to his church. When I went there, I felt like I had found what I was looking for even though I hadn't known really what that was before I went. So I confessed to Christ there, and joined a year later in baptism.

If only you had had a friend who inducted you into the delights of the Grateful Dead and wild animal jungle sex with hot girls.

How Apolyton would be different.....

	11-11-2004 10:47									#44
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I am a Jack-Mormon, ask Verto or Brent what that means.

ACK!

	11-11-2004 10:51									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Oncle Boris This is a false distinction, as a 'religion' is simply a succesfull set of 'spiritual' beliefs.

Even though I do have deeply spiritual beliefs, I can't say I'm religious. This is because I recognise that these beliefs about the 'soul' and about the universe in general are blind guesswork and I'm open minded enough to admit that I may have been wrong.

And even though some my beliefs do coincide with those of some religions, I don't really like the idea of having to conform to them, as they tend to be someone else's take on the underlying beliefs, and I don't agree with any single religion's beliefs 100%. I prefer to draw my own conclusions, and I don't want to be the 'prophet' of a new religion, as there is no way anyone can agree with me 100% either.

To me, the path to 'Salvation' or 'enlightenment' is up to the individual, and there is no universal 'golden path' that applies to everyone.

While religions more often than not tend to be spiritual, the spiritual don't necessarily have to be religious.

	11-11-2004 10:55									#46
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I am an atheist extremist, because the point of existence is the pursuit of truth, and all human religions have disproven themselves ages ago.

	11-11-2004 11:00									#47
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Yes, people are confusing religion with spirituality.

I was raised Catholic but the more I looked into history I realized that I don't think the main beliefs are true. It is manmade just like any other religion.

I do think there is some high power. I don't think that there was nothing, and all of the sudden a little something appeared magically and the created a big explosion. But there isn't really any way to prove it one way or another as far as I'm concerned.

Right now my view of God is similar to the transcendalists. I believe that God is in all things. It is like an electric current that flows through everything. Spirituality is about connecting with this current. That is what nirvana, going to heaven, etc. is. And once you can find God in all things, everything becomes God and is beautiful. This state is euphoric and it should be strived for. In every intense spiritual experience (including my own) that I've heard about, the person saw God in all things.

Even if you don't necessarily believe in any type of higher power, or any type of force that I've described, you can still have similar beliefs. For example, I have a friend that believes everything is God. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, energy and mass are interchangeable. Everything is just concentrated energy, and if everything is energy, everything is God. So you could say that with this belief there is no God, but if you believe everything is God than you can still be spiritual and you will be happier.

I don't like religion, but spirituality is great. A spiritual experience is one thousand times better than anything you can experience in life that isn't. I think everyone, especially aetheists and agnostics, should learn about the teachings of all religions on spirituality (not on doctrine and rituals) and figure out what works best for you. Just try it. If that means going to Church, than great. If it means meditation, do it. If it means prayer, pray. If it means walking through the woods and letting the current fill through you, then do it. I think that all religions have some great ideas, you just have to find them.

So I think he who doesn't try spirituality is making a huge mistake. It is stupid to dismiss the ideas of the spiritual teachers without even taking a look at them and trying it out. The search is worth it, if you can have one hour were you feel God and/or beauty in all things, hours and hours of searching for it will be worth it.

I encourage everyone to read about all the religions of the world (their ideas, not the institutions).

	11-11-2004 11:05									#48
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What Blake says is true. Buddhism is not a religion. Is more a philosophy.

Tao the same.

I remember have read Taoism is not religion but a metaphysic

	11-11-2004 11:10									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Gerar Dean What Blake says is true. Buddhism is not a religion. Is more a philosophy.

Buddhism isn't monolithic; there are many different varieties of Buddhism, some more like philosophies (like Zen Buddhism) some very much religious. I can't remember its name (Pure Land Buddhism?), but there was a type of Buddhism prevelant in Japan at the time of first European contact that was very much like Christianity. Even the Preists commented on the similarities, remarking that it must have been designed by the Devil to be so close to Christianity so as to lead as many souls astray as possible

Does anyone know what I am talking about?

	11-11-2004 11:11									#50
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I was born in a Muslim society to a not-so-practising family. All my life I've had the opportunity of debating religion (Islam in particular) with both atheists and fundamentalists. I also used to be an avid reader of popular science.

All in all, I came to a point where I discovered Islam as a religion is much more profound than what it looks like today in light of how Muslim countries live and their level of (non)development and technological/social backwardness.

As such, Islamic philosphy and the Qoranic explanation of God, universe and creation constantly and positively amazes me. I try to keep up my habit of following popular science, and without fail (including evolution) I find inspiration in the harmony between science and Islam, between the values of Enlightenment and the core of Islam (as opposed to what "Islamic" societies practice today), by the balance of humanism and society in Islam (as opposed to destructive terrorism waged in its name).

I also bet you could never imagine such a description of Islam.

In sum, although I'm not a hard-practicing person, I am nevertheless a Muslim.

	11-11-2004 11:11									#51
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Ben Kenobi, what is with your avatar?

And you still owe me a response in the 'Do Christians fear death' thread.

	11-11-2004 11:17									#52
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@Wycoff: I know. What you say is true, but as I know, these are religions based on the (I dont' know the correct english word) ¿deification? of Siddartha Gautama (Buddah), not his philosophy.

	11-11-2004 11:22									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Ancyrean I also bet you could never imagine such a description of Islam.

I know that. In my country the muslim community is really small, but when Bush attacs Islam without discrimination, the argentinean muslims where at TV and expalin what you say.

	11-11-2004 11:23									#54
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quote: If only you had had a friend who inducted you into the delights of the Grateful Dead and wild animal jungle sex with hot girls. How Apolyton would be different.....

I doubt I'd be here if that were the case.

And don't laugh. I had a friend who was like that. Trouble is that he took after me more than I him.

	11-11-2004 11:25									#55
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quote: Ben Kenobi, what is with your avatar?

Lost a bet. There's a thread floating around here either on the second or first page.

quote: And you still owe me a response in the 'Do Christians fear death' thread.

Okay. I'll search for that. Part of the problem is that I post in enough threads that keeping track of them is cumbersome.

	11-11-2004 11:32									#56
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Wycoff-I just read about the Pure Land Sect yesterday in my book. It is similar to Christianity for it has a personal God. I can't remember that much about it though.

Gerar Dean-not all Buddhist sects deify Buddha.

Ancyrean-Do you know a lot about Sufism? From what I've read about it, it is very similar to my beliefs.

	11-11-2004 11:38									#57
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quote: Lost a bet. There's a thread floating around here either on the second or first page.

The funny part is the 'together at last.'

	11-11-2004 11:45									#58
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Lutheran. The ONLY real one. Every other religion or subset of Christianity is not only false but they are jokes as well and people participating and SATAN worshippers and clowns and will burn in HELL.

	11-11-2004 11:56									#59
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quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod Ancyrean-Do you know a lot about Sufism? From what I've read about it, it is very similar to my beliefs.

I'm not an expert on it but I know generally what it's about. It's a very inclusive and universalist sect of Islam. Emphasising the love of God and creation, they assert the form of worship is not relevant, the essence of your love is. They call out for all, the Christians, the Jews, the Zoroastrians and basically anyone regardless of faith (or lack thereof) to come and join with them in their love. Whirling Dervishes are only the most aesthetic expression of their creed.

If I may attempt a rough translation of a well-known quote; "We love the created because of their connection to the Creator"

	11-11-2004 12:20									#60
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I believe in the sign of Zeta. ( kudos fo reference)

aka, I don't give an *insert some 4 lettered word*