15-01-2005 03:23									#31
	Suffering from ads?

quote: an example from the PTWDG: from the first and only hut GS found, we got a settler. The first or second battle of a vet brought us an elite. The second or third battle, we used that elite, and generated a leader.

IIRC, it was the very first battle as a vet that earned a promotion to elite (the first attack we made of the war), and then the very first elite victory that generated a leader. It was some of the most outrageous leader luck I've ever seen, actually.

The settler wasn't as amazing, but viewed in the context of only finding 1 hut and getting a settler from that 1... yeah. Wow.

Some very good play notwithstanding, GS owes a lot to the RNG.

-Arrian

	15-01-2005 12:57									#32
	Support Apolyton

Trip: Lucky "admits" to losing 6-8 units against us! And just what units did he lose too? The fact our GA never started testified to the fact that they hardly, if ever, lost a battle. How many units did we leave without a NM in the stack? IIRC it was only a warrior and horsemen.

	15-01-2005 16:15									#33
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Arrian Some very good play notwithstanding, GS owes a lot to the RNG.

Same could be said about Lego. Even if we ignore the fact how much landmass we had at our hands basically "for free", we had got so many techs from huts that we were only slightly (2 or 3 techs?) behind when first contacting GoW (and even got more AFTER making contact). And one settler, too. We certainly could not complain of bad RNG...

	15-01-2005 17:33									#34
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I'm not sure Lucky's quite so innocent in this regard. I'd bet more than one of his comments have been with the explicit aim at pissing off/provoking the other side, other times it has been misinterpreted by the receiving side.

Probably, yes. But his posting style in many cases suggests he is having fun. Or at least, some of the arguments start like that. There is one major difference between this Lucky situation and either the Vox or Bobian wars, which is the amount of time this has been going on. The Voxian war was only a month or so, the Bobian war a couple of months, after which the truce in public posting came quickly. This Lucky thing has been going on for over a year.

quote: Likewise I never felt Vox's "propaganda" was anything more than comical jabs at GS during your war, apparently GS felt differently.

I know it was not meant like how it was perceived... which is the reason why it was easily forgiven.

quote: I also know for a fact that GoW's provoking of GS was not meant to be taken seriously at first (I should know... I started it) but when it was, GoW also responded seriously and the nasty flame-fest ensued.

Part of the reason why it was so nasty for our side, is that none of the teams sided with us. ND kept out of the discussion, and Lego to lesser extent (publicly yes, but it was apparant that in private they were not supporting us), but all other teams gangbanged on us.

I know for a fact that some of our members will never talk to some other PTWDG posters unless they are forced, just as some of the ISDG members swear they don't want to have anything to do with Lucky. I understand this position completely, however I'm not sure that in all cases it is the other party to blame. The ISDG team has said many things where GS never went so far, and in that case I definately don't put blame on other teams as we were just as 'guilty'. Maybe this partly comes because in the PTWDG I had many public discussions (and in that period all went awry), while in the ISDG I never was involved publicly. But really, I consider our team at least, and probably even more guilty for the nastyness with Lucky. We should have known better... the PTWDG always was conceived as a testing ground for the ISDG, and part of that means public interaction. Lucky is just some ignorant ****, it was us who should have been more mature.

So forget any morally high position you might think we can claim, the only high ground is that we are certain we did not cheat. But as long as there is no proof of Lucky's cheating, we are the ones who are responsible for this mess.

quote: The moral of the story, to me, was simple: don't mess around at all unless you are 100% sure your point will be carried across as you intend it to.

Another one involved who learned his lesson

DeepO

	15-01-2005 17:41									#35
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Con, I understand, and as said, I don't like him either, far from it. I can understand where it comes from, at least in part. He feels provoked just as much as we feel that, and I am certain that if he wants to give examples of where we bullied him, he will find plenty.

Also, there is of course no push to play games with him, there are enough people in this world who can play Civ. But, sometimes you are more or less forced... being in the ISDG is a bit of a must if you're involved in one of the PTWDG teams. That doesn't mean you've got to like every single member of the team, nor the flaming discussions that happened here. But... just for being part of it, many people stick around despite the athmosphere. The same can happen in a intersite game.

DeepO

	15-01-2005 17:49									#36
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Arrian IIRC, it was the very first battle as a vet that earned a promotion to elite (the first attack we made of the war), and then the very first elite victory that generated a leader. It was some of the most outrageous leader luck I've ever seen, actually.

I'm still not sure if it was the 2nd or 3rd battle which gave us the elite, I think it even was the 2nd... the shortest way one can get to a GL in game. GoW only landed in the third turn of war, right? The funny thing is, while it was extreme luck, it couldn't have been a cheat. We just saw a warrior, and attacked. Next turn, we knew an immortal was supposed to be near, and attacked that one (does Nathan still have the avatar from that battle, BTW?). Straight forward attacks, nothing to chose. Nothing to cheat either

quote: Some very good play notwithstanding, GS owes a lot to the RNG. -Arrian

well... that settler was felt to be a bit of compensation for our starting position... we weren't exactly lucky there.

DeepO