02-01-2005 16:22									#31
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I used opera for 3 years

JM

	02-01-2005 16:31									#32
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Smaller? On the disc, or in memory? If the former, I couldn't care less.

	02-01-2005 16:32									#33
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by VetLegion Opera with just about everything in it is smaller than vanilla Firefox. I simply don't see where the dillema is.

Firefox is free and is available on all major platforms. You can also have all sorts of extensions to add to the functionality.

	02-01-2005 16:40									#34
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: available on all major platforms

So is Opera

	02-01-2005 16:43									#35
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Hueij quote: available on all major platforms So is Opera

Is there a version for Linux?

	02-01-2005 17:56									#36
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Is there a version for Linux?

Oh... I thought you meant major platforms. But actually there is. For a complete list look here: http://www.opera.com/download/?custom=yes

	02-01-2005 19:04									#37
	Got spare money?

quote: Opera with just about everything in it is smaller than vanilla Firefox. I simply don't see where the dillema is. Switched to Opera three years ago and never looked back.

It has an annoying banner (that takes away lots of space for content) or you have to pay for it.
The only thing it needs to drive me away.

	02-01-2005 19:06									#38
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Quality always costs.

	02-01-2005 19:47									#39
	Got spare money?

I've been an Opera hater since I tried one of the very early versions... and I've even tried a new version, and still hate it. The interface is bloated, too much stuff on screen, and bad font selection. I know I can hide all that stuff, but why bother?

The worst thing is that banner. I don't want any software I use to have a frigging banner. Paying for a web browser seems a ridicilous idea, with quite enough free ones. Cracking Opera, I couldn't be arsed.

Also, I haven't seen anything in Opera that I would like as a feauture and that Firefox or an extension doesn't already do. Finally there's the sentimental reason that I've preferred using Netscape for as long as I've been using the Web - didn't like MSIE version 3, don't like it much still, and Firefox is an improvement on Mozilla, which is technically same good old Netscape.

	02-01-2005 20:14									#40
	Tired of ads?

This is my entire interface I use to surf. It only has three rows of stuff that aren't the webpage I'm viewing.

So the interface isn't bloated.

And people complain Opera is bloated until they find out everything: the popup blocker, the ad filter, the chat client, RSS reader, mail and usenet client and a host of other things such as mouse gestures and tabbed browsing that you have to extend Firefox with - come in one tiny 3.5 Mb package.

It isn't just good compression, Opera is quick in everyday use, it has to be efficient code behind that.


The only valid argument for Firefox, and it's a good argument, is the price.

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	02-01-2005 21:10									#41
	Got spare money?

quote: And people complain Opera is bloated until they find out everything: the popup blocker, the ad filter, the chat client, RSS reader, mail and usenet client and a host of other things such as mouse gestures and tabbed browsing that you have to extend Firefox with - come in one tiny 3.5 Mb package.

The anti-popup functions are in Firefox as well, and I am against having everything in one application. I don't want my mail and usenet in the same program, I have a separate one for that. Tabbed browsing is in Firefox by default . Mouse gestures, true, has to be extended, if you want them.

	02-01-2005 22:05									#42
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It says good things about Opera when that is the worst thing people can say about it

I use it for almost only web. I have a separate program for email and another separate one for usenet.

I use its RSS reader though, and ocassionaly chat.

	02-01-2005 22:19									#43
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by VetLegion This is my entire interface I use to surf. It only has three rows of stuff that aren't the webpage I'm viewing.

Firefox has only 1, see below. That is, with tabbed browsing disabled (it's a standard feature, but I disabled it as tabbed browsing is an abomination, no matter what everyone else says), otherwise it's 2. And from the looks of it, it has more functionality in that one row as well...


Who cares about how much diskspace a browser takes these days, or even how much memory it eats? Even a poorly written browser that's leaking like monsoon rain isn't going to tap more than a tiny fraction of CPU power and memory... And FF definitely isn't such a browser.

quote: The only valid argument for Firefox, and it's a good argument, is the price.

The thing that made me switch to Firefox after 10 years of being a very satisfied IE customer (yes, I was actually happy with it, or happier than with the competitors anyway), is AdBlock. It rules! Opera's filter.ini doesn't even remotely compare to it.

Another killer feature is the search box: a single box from which you can search with one of over a 1,000 search engines if you want, from Google to Merriam-Webster, from IMDB to Isohunt. Really cleans up your favourites list, I can tell you...

Apart from that, it has everything Opera and IE have (or everything I'll ever use anyway).

	02-01-2005 22:31									#44
	Got spare money?

Can't imagine seeing you use IE, Locutus .

	02-01-2005 23:04									#45
	Tired of ads?

Opera is ugly.

	02-01-2005 23:45									#46
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Made the switch from IE to Netscape due to the latter's tabbed browsing and the fact that whilst it may crash just as often, it at least doesn't take the whole of windows with it in its downfall. Switched to Firefox from Netscape because the latter scoured memory like mad.

	03-01-2005 00:21									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Solver Can't imagine seeing you use IE, Locutus .

Why not, what's wrong with IE? I know everyone loves to hate MS products, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily all bad. If you don't like tabbed browsing like me, IE + Google toolbar was until recently pretty much on par with all other major browsers...

Heck, I still have it installed, in case I ever regret my choice of switching to Firefox (which I did only a few days ago).

	03-01-2005 00:24									#48
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

You don't want to get into a pissing contest about customization with Opera

quote: Originally posted by Locutus Firefox has only 1, see below. That is, with tabbed browsing disabled (it's a standard feature, but I disabled it as tabbed browsing is an abomination, no matter what everyone else says), otherwise it's 2. And from the looks of it, it has more functionality in that one row as well...

You mean, it's the same. But can you remove the basic menu in Firefox (File, ..., Help)? You can in Opera.

By the way, I agree that tabbed browsing sucks as a concept.

quote: Who cares about how much diskspace a browser takes these days, or even how much memory it eats?

Diskspace is not so important, perhaps only as one indication that the software is well written.

But RAM is a big problem, especially with tabbed browsing.

quote: The thing that made me switch to Firefox after 10 years of being a very satisfied IE customer (yes, I was actually happy with it, or happier than with the competitors anyway), is AdBlock. It rules! Opera's filter.ini doesn't even remotely compare to it.

Could be. I played with filter.ini a little but wasn't very happy with results so I don't use it now. I see Apolyton's adds

quote: Another killer feature is the search box: a single box from which you can search with one of over a 1,000 search engines if you want, from Google to Merriam-Webster, from IMDB to Isohunt. Really cleans up your favourites list, I can tell you...

If I want to search Amazon in Opera, I type "z keyword" in the address bar, if I want to search IMDB I type "i keyword", Google is "g keyword" and so on... Opera also has a search box but I have it disabled since this is simpler.

	03-01-2005 00:55									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by VetLegion You don't want to get into a pissing contest about customization with Opera

No, I want a browser that gives me what I want; nothing more, nothing less For me, Firefox works best.

quote: You mean, it's the same. But can you remove the basic menu in Firefox (File, ..., Help)?

I don't know, actually. But why on earth would I want to? I need those from time to time... (Well, maybe not Help, but all the other ones I do)

quote: By the way, I agree that tabbed browsing sucks as a concept.

Thank Sid there are some sensible people left in this world

quote: But RAM is a big problem, especially with tabbed browsing.

Never noticed any RAM problems with any browser myself (well, the Netscape on my uni's Unix systems runs pretty crappy, but that might be a configuration problem). But of course I don't use tabbed browsing

quote: Could be. I played with filter.ini a little but wasn't very happy with results so I don't use it now. I see Apolyton's adds

I haven't seen any ads whatsoever in days And when I do accidentally encounter an add, it can usually be permanently removed with a single click (two clicks if I'm unlucky).

You really ought to give FireFox + AdBlock a try I can certainly understand if you prefer Opera but you simply must have seen this in action, if only for the sake of it -- it's brilliant! It convinced a deep-rooted conservative IE fanboy like myself to switch to Firefox. That's no small accomplishment, I can assure you

	03-01-2005 02:34									#50
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Why not, what's wrong with IE? I know everyone loves to hate MS products, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily all bad. If you don't like tabbed browsing like me, IE + Google toolbar was until recently pretty much on par with all other major browsers...

I am definitely not a MS hater, but I don't think IE was on par lately. It might be just me, but I tend to see a lot of crashes for IE when it's running on a system that's on for quite some time. It lacks several feautures that I like, most notably tabbed browsing (yes, I do like it), pop-up blocking and a search box - Google toolbar's decent, but it takes an extra row. IE also doesn't have a download manager that can, at the very least, pause and resume a download.

Finally, there are all those IE security holes that allow tons of spyware and sometimes worse stuff to get in. Yes, there are patches, yes, there are options to turn off ActiveX and whatnot, but it is a hassle, while other browsers have always been somewhat more secure with the default settings.

	03-01-2005 03:31									#51
	Increase Your PM Length

The only problem I have with IE is security holes that invites all spyware that exists to get installed on the computer...
I don't care much for tabbed browsing... I use it, but I can live without it... With the newest service pack, there is a popup blocker, don't know how good it is though... but search boxes in browsers are the worst thing ever... it was more annoying than usefull, so I turned it off in Firefox
When I come to a computer with any toolbar (specially the google toolbar) I always turns it off (or uninstalls it, depending on how much I have to say about the computer)

	03-01-2005 03:39									#52
	Increase Your PM Length

Just what we need. A pissing contest between Opera and Firefox users...

	03-01-2005 03:42									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Oh, and Firefox is more customizable than Opera. Firefox is open source, Opera is not. Therefore, Firefox customization is not limited at all, except for your own skills .

	03-01-2005 07:41									#54
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Hueij Oh... I thought you meant major platforms.

The Mac has ~4% desktop market, and so does Linux worldwide. So it's as major as the Mac

	03-01-2005 08:14									#55
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

My current Opera 8.0 Beta layout. I could get rid of a few buttons like Back and Forward that I never use, but then other people wouldn't be able to use my computer at all.

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	03-01-2005 14:36									#56
	Got spare money?

first 51 hours of january

IE 58.3%
Mozilla 30.7%


looks like mozilla will hit a clear 30% this month!

	03-01-2005 22:22									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by St Leo My current Opera 8.0 Beta layout. I could get rid of a few buttons like Back and Forward that I never use, but then other people wouldn't be able to use my computer at all.

:vomit:

	03-01-2005 23:13									#58
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Ugh, I decided to install the AdBlock extension to Firefox, but... Do I really have to right-click on all ads that I want to block and choose Adblock "this"? This is quickly becoming tedious and tiresome.

Am I doing something wrong?

	03-01-2005 23:23									#59
	Inflate your Upload Space

Tools -> Adblock -> Preferences

You can add filters that filter out content originating from certain addresses. For instance, "http://ad.inet.fi/*" filters out anything that starts with that snippet. The * is used to mean "anything of any length goes here to match". I've modify the filters as I've went, and now pretty much anything is filtered out. Save for http://apolyton.net/ads/*, naturally.

	03-01-2005 23:26									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: The Mac has ~4% desktop market, and so does Linux worldwide. So it's as major as the Mac

Yep. And Linux is growing fast. Unless MS does something major for XP users, IE will lose its dominant position.

My mother is now a Firefox user.