02-02-2005 04:47									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Modo, gunkulator: do automate any Workers?

Not until everything is Railroaded, no.

quote: Originally posted by Dominae Please post a save confirming your observations if you can.

I can't. I tried to recreate this, but it doesn't seem to happen in SP games, at all. I did see it happen, though, but it was in a PBEM. Surely you will understand, that the save won't get posted.

Anyway, it doesn't seem like a bug, it's more like a "feature". Worker-turns get happily wasted in SP, but they are kept in PBEMs.

	02-02-2005 09:01									#32
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Sorry, I thought we were talking about SP games. I've noticed what you describe in PBEMs.

	02-02-2005 10:44									#33
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I've actually noticed this in SP, Dom. When I get a chance, I'll try to dig back and find a save to confirm. I will say that I noticed it starting with C3C 1.22. Before that, the whole stack would lose its turn working on, say, a railroad, even though only one was needed.

	02-02-2005 11:56									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Dominae, I think you might be wrong

Poor Doomed Fool

quote: Originally posted by punkbass2000 I don't believe your numbers at all. Any proof?

sorry, sir the dog ate my homework

quote: Originally posted by Cort HausAs traits, tech, government and worker type affect worker speed, you need to know your build times.

what? you mean i'm supposed to actually add things up? .. madness !!

sorry again, my machine's, fried, so i really can't test anything right now.
i definitely had this occurring as i described above.

i mostly noticed it happenning with two native workers or two natives and one slave. i think it was also more prevalent under despot. / monarchy than republic / demo. it tended not to happen with railrods, but it was quite normal to see it again with pollution.
makes me suspect it's some form of rounding error

i have a suspicion it may have been a vanilla glitch. outright fear of vmxa made me install c3c only quite recently. haven't been able to get much play time since then, so i've still got some bad habits.

that said,

quote: Originally posted by Modo44 As to clearing any square, the most efficient way is, of course, to have one Worker do the job

toil and trouble ..

seems we could fill a thread on the indiscretions of labourers. demi-god seems like a good level at which to be ironing out this stuff.

	02-02-2005 13:09									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Dominae Sorry, I thought we were talking about SP games.

I thought so too. Sadly, Civ didn't.

IF I did just miss it, I'll let you guys know with a SP save.

	04-02-2005 08:55									#36
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I'm too much of a coward to play at Demigod. I was about to go to war with the Hittites. They had gangs of units in my territory already. So I give him the threat hoping to get him to save my rep by starting the war.

Turns out he ran away instead. They vacated my territory and now I'm not so sure I can accomplish my goals without serious losses.

I've got some resources to trade and thing I can get some technology or an alliance with the Ottomans. I've been doing other stuff and am not sure when I'll get back to this game, but if you're all done discussing worker turns how about some strategic advice.

Attachment: vikingh.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

	04-02-2005 10:08									#37
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quote: Originally posted by 1889 ...but if you're all done discussing worker turns how about some strategic advice.

Unfortunately, and tedious though it may seem, getting worker turns correct is just one of those many MM issues that need to be done almost perfectly in order to survive at Demi-God....which is why I dont particulary relish the experience

	04-02-2005 14:19									#38
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Darn, I thought we had successfully threadjacked this.

quote: Originally posted by 1889 I'm too much of a coward to play at Demigod. I was about to go to war with the Hittites. They had gangs of units in my territory already. So I give him the threat hoping to get him to save my rep by starting the war. Turns out he ran away instead. They vacated my territory and now I'm not so sure I can accomplish my goals without serious losses.

I think you should be ok, if you use your bombard units wisely (hint: AI Knights have to go first). Once the main AI SOD is dead, you'll probably be able to gain land with a concentrated attack. But, always count on losses. With the unit numbers, and the wicked RNG, it's inevitable.

quote: Originally posted by 1889 I've got some resources to trade and thing I can get some technology or an alliance with the Ottomans.

No, you won't. No, you can't. You don't have a tech, nor lots of cash, so the AI will not help. Resources and luxuries will probably not be enough to get neither an alliance, nor a technology from them.

If anyone will help you, try France or Persia. The bigger AIs will either ignore you, or even get allied with the Hitties. Fortunately, Russia and Sumeria are at war, so they are busy enough at home.

quote: Originally posted by 1889 I've been doing other stuff and am not sure when I'll get back to this game, but if you're all done discussing worker turns how about some strategic advice.

Your Workers MUST improve land. Forts, and barricades are fun, but they will not make cash for you, so they are dead last priority, except if you had choke points.

Your cities MUST grow. I realize you are trying to use tha maximum of the Feudal free unit upkeep, but having a capital of size 4, and core cities at size 3 deep into the Medieval Age is simply suicidal. At the very least, they should be at the point of free happiness (lux slider to 0%), bigger if affordable.

IF you are not doing research, at least get Marketplaces built. You need cash for upgrades/rushes/buying things. Actually, get Markets built anyway, as soon as you have clobbered the Hitties.

	04-02-2005 21:35									#39
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Well I was so depressed when I looked at the trades. You have mortgage your future:

Sumeria gets 25 GPT, Dyes, 30 GPT, 3 GPT and you get nothing.
Others are getting paid as well. You cannot expect to win if you are going to give them the cash they need to kill you and deprive yourself of money for upgrades or research.

58gpt and dyes is making Sumeria very strong.

Why make courthouses in tiny towns at scores of turns to complete? I am against that, make either workers or wealth. One of the towns is not even growing and is at size two, so why build there?

You cannot under write the AI's empire and win, I will make very few cash deals with the AI, especially after the late ancient age.
That money buys troops and knowledge.

The longer you delay getting some trimming on someone, worse it will be as the AI will start to leave you way behind in techs now. You will be facing much stronger units and in large numbers.

Do no worry about your rep any longer, it will not matter as you will not be getting any deals anyway, except at the point of a sword or gun.

	04-02-2005 21:40									#40
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Well I was so depressed when I looked at the trades. You have mortgage your future:

Ya, well imagine how I feel. Did I mention that I do really well at Emperor?

	04-02-2005 22:08									#41
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I can image that the start location was not the best you could hope for, with lots of jungle close at hand.

When you have a less than stellar start, you have to make some adapations at the top levels. One thing I think is important and that is to have a strong capitol.

If you see you have a 5 or 4 turn settler city, then crank em out, but soon you will need to let it grow up larger to make any head way.

If you want to go for say the GL, you have to get at least 4 workers, maybe 6, improving the capitol and then add them into it. Get it to size 10 or better and get the GL.

Now research at zero and build up your forces and trim someone.

In the main, Demi is not a game where you can piddle around staying in contact with the tech race and evenually pulling ahead.
You will have a very hard time staying in contact in the tech race, if they are allowed to grow with no wars and no losses.

They will trade and you will soon be left out of the tech trading circle. Try to foster wars between the AI's and trap them into short losing wars with you.

Pangea maps are the hardest types at the top levels, easiest at lower levels.