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Modo44
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in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
We're comparing apples and oranges here. While I'm not denying that a good Road network facilitates warfare, there's also no denying that producing Archers every 4 turns from turn 1 is not so bad from a warmongering point of view. |
Yes, it is. However, I built 1 Archer throughout this game, planning for a fast-mover force right from the start. I did this, mainly, to time a Worker build. In my case, Roads were a priority. Imagine, I even sent one of my few native Workers to Road a Mountain early on - knowing very well, that no citizen would be working it for ages. So, you are right about tha apples and oranges. Playing styles vary, and so do evaluations. A good choice for me might be a bad one (or not-so-good) for others.
quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
That one Worker will not drastically speed up warmongering in the first 30 turns: you only get a new Road every 4 turns; you might pick the wrong direction (as I recall, you used your Worker to Road the Game tiles, which are in the opposite direction of your first target, the Mongols); |
By accident, I picked the right direction. My first two self-settled cities went toward the Aztecs (west, and south-west), and so did my early Roads. After that, they declared war. I even had a Military Road to them, led by a native Worker.
quote:
Originally posted by Dominae and, most importantly, effective combat in Civ3 is not about reinforcements but hitting hard the first time. |
When I play it, it's very often about constant reinforcements. Hitting hard the first time is just a bonus to me. It makes things easier, so I do it, if possible. BUT, I can do without easy enough, thank you very much. Being used to fielding relatively small numbers of units, I might value good transportation more than other players do. But hey, it works. 
quote:
Originally posted by Dominae I'm surprised you did not mention the Corruption-reduction ability of Roads, as I think that's the far more crucial aspect of Workers in this type of game; the difference between an Archer every 10 turns and every 7 turns is, well, better than a super-early military Road network. |
I did not mention it, because I couldn't care less. I had a maximum of maybe 15 cities doing units by the end of the game, not more than 10 making important stuff, and only 5 working from the early stages. Those 5 won the game, and they would have gotten connected quickly anyhow. Corruption was really a non-issue in my Road planning. What I did want, was connecting all my cities, so I could shift troops quickly, and reinforce hot spots.
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by Modo44
I did not mention it, because I couldn't care less. I had a maximum of maybe 15 cities doing units by the end of the game, not more than 10 making important stuff, and only 5 working from the early stages. Those 5 won the game, and they would have gotten connected quickly anyhow. Corruption was really a non-issue in my Road planning. What I did want, was connecting all my cities, so I could shift troops quickly, and reinforce hot spots. |
I'm talking about cities 3-5 which, if unconnected, will lose their third or fourth Shield to Corruption. That's definitely reason enough to have Workers for Roads at the beginning of the game. I'm sure this seemed less important to you because you were not Archer-rushing.
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Modo44
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in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Dominae
I'm talking about cities 3-5 which, if unconnected, will lose their third or fourth Shield to Corruption. That's definitely reason enough to have Workers for Roads at the beginning of the game. I'm sure this seemed less important to you because you were not Archer-rushing. |
Actually, my first self-settled cities got connected before being built, with Roads helping the Settlers move to the spots. So yes, I didn't notice. 
I get it. I'm just not a fan of Archer-rushing, that's all. Archer-overrunning (a bit later, with a large number of), now that's a different story. I'm probably a bad student for this course, because even after restricting my urge to build, I still refused to change my early game. 
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Beekus
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4000--Build Scout, Research CB, Worker NW to road. Build 2 scouts to start out with, then
granary.
3900--The Khoisan tribe learned me Bronze Working.
3500--Got Masonry and Alphabet from French. Free city in the northern desert.
3300--Got CB, going for Wheel. So Far, I have met the Mongols, the French, the Aztecs, and
the Maya. Have the tech lead...for now. I would blow up if I were the Aztecs, Given their
surrounding terrain. My people are thirsty. The Granary in Zimbabwe will be finished in 5
turns, then my plans for world conquest can begin.
In general, I've abandoned the idea of improving around my cities. By keeping the forested
game intact and only chopping further north, I believe Zimbabwe can be an excellent size 4
or 5 city with no improvement. Also, the cattle and forest rich lands to the southwest
could make a good second city, also with little improvement. Instead, I am directing my
worker to build assault roads to the north, which will further speed my impi-horseman army
into battle, due in DAR 2. My scouts have yet to find the Mongol Homeland though.
3100--Found the Babalonian Homeland. 4 techs ahead of those jerks. 1 turn from granary,
then settler in Zimbabwe. Ulundi, the hopeless desert city to the north is rocking 3 food
and 1 production per turn. Slow building a warrior. It's only saving grace is that it is a
coastal city...
2800--First Settler, Going straight to that cow forest area, and building barracks back at
the capital.
2630--Got my barracks and founded city. Building barracks everywhere and Impi in Zimbabwe.
The Mayan will be the first to fall. Ulundi is an excellent staging point for an assault.
Roading around the forests up to Ulundi.
2470--I've built my first impi, just discovered Wheels. On my way to Horseback riding. Oh
yeah, I traded Alphabet for Mysticism, just to move closer to Monarchy (but that's a
secondary goal). I think I am going to build another worker to go get that horse.
2390--Ohhh, there the Mongols are. Didn't even think of looking there.
2150--My impi just won a battle, strangely no GA though.
2110--END DAR 1, My impi won another battle and no GA. The northern desert city of Ulundi
finally finished its barracks, and some nice walls are coming soon. The road from the
heartland up to Ulundi is almost complete as well. Right now I have two Impis, with two
more coming in two turns. I should have some horses in about 10 turns, and HR in about 20
turns...Gonna build exclusively Impis and Chariots to upgrade until then.
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Beekus
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Yes they were...(It's been a while)...oh yeah emperor level with AU mod.
i am typing in notepad and then copying and pasting...how do i avoid the double spacing?...how do i create and post a screen shot?
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by Beekus
Yes they were...(It's been a while)...oh yeah emperor level with AU mod.
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You only trigger your GA when fighting units from full-fleghed enemy civs (not the Barbs).
quote:
i am typing in notepad and then copying and pasting...how do i avoid the double spacing?
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You can do one of two things: use the [code] tags, which will display your non-alphanumberic characters as you entered them; or, copy-paste from Notepad, then do a bit of re-formattin yourself in the Post Reply window.
quote:
...how do i create and post a screen shot?
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On Windows, use your Print Screen button to capture the image, open Paint, paste it there. Save it as a JPEG. Then you need some other program (Photoshop, Photo Viewer, Infran) to resize it to 800x600. When composing a message, there is an option to attach a file. Just link to your image, and the board will display it for you.
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Swissy
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Chicago,IL,USA
Sep 1999
time: 23:28
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AU506 - DAR1: 4000BC-2150BC (AU Monarch)
1. Where did you found your capital, and why? Start square.
Didn't want to waste the worker actions hooking up the lux. Also, thought at least one AI would be very close and wanted second scout out fast.
2. How many additional Scouts did you build?
Two.
3. What have you done so far with respect to early warfare?
None, as the AI civs are close but not close enough to attack without triggering a way to early GA. Wanted to be building horsemen before triggering GA.
4. Anything about the map that concerns you?
Mongols appear to be shafted, perhaps a cow instead of wheat would have made them more formidible. As it is now they are just the easy first target.
5. What research path did you take, and why?
Wheel/Horseback Riding, as I wanted horsemen as soon as possible.
6. Most importantly: you got Game?!
Yes, three adjacent to my capitol 
4000BC Found capitol "Center of the World". CotW starts a scout.
3950BC Worker1 start chopping forst/game north of CotW.
3900BC Scout1 pops hut for 25g.
3850BC scout1 heads west. Nice cows Sw of CotW, looks like city#2 has a spot.
3800BC CotW produces Scout2, starts granary. Scout1 will continue westward, scout2 will go east. Discover I have coast east and west.
3750BC Worker1 finishes chopping, moves to start road to first cow. Scout1 pops hut for 25g.
3700BC Worker1 set to auto-road to cow. Scout1 sees ivory, looks a bit far to plan for SoZ. Scout2 finds advanced Lybian village which I rename "SWissy's Luck". Scout2 also sees some coast to the SE. SL starts a scout.
3650BC Scout1 sees spice and Aztec borders.
3600BC Scout1 continues west avoiding Aztec borders.
3550BC Scout1 nears what may be far west coast. S
3500BC Borders expand and Aztec capitol location confirmed as is the French capitol. Looks like an early settler move may have been marginally beneficial. Scout1 confirms far-west coast location and possible lack of expansion room westward for Aztecs. So they are probably heading my way. Scout2 moves to get contact with French.
3450BC SL produces scout3, starts warrior. Scout1 looking to see how much room Aztecs really have. Scout2 contacts French, with little co-operation from Joan in tech trading.. Scout3 heads south.
3400BC Scout1 sees the Aztecs are nearly on the SW coast. Scout2 looks to see how much land French have to south and east, sees hut.
3350BC Mongol reg warrior appears on SE border of SL, I say high. Mongols have fur hooked up and no extra tech for either of us. The Mongol is a bit poorer as they only have 10 gold. Scout1 sees Aztecs has some good land south of capitol so they may not expand my way right off. Scout2 pops hut for 25g.
3300BC Mongol RgWr continues past SL. Scout1 continues survey of Aztecs, Scout2 the French. I say the two AI I've found seem to be position in such a manner that early expansion my way is almost certain. Scout3 sees Mongol borders. Looks to be on southern coast, oh well.
3250BC Scout1 sees lone Aztec settler about to seetle some prime land. Scout3 gets a mountain view of Mongol capitol, and yes they are on south coast.
3200BC SL produces Warrior1, starts a worker. Warrior1 fortifies. Scout1 sees Mongol scout in area so heads north to cut through Aztec capitol area. Scout2 sees land south of Paris looks similar to Aztec's land.
3150BC CotW produces granary, starts settler.
3100BC Trade French Warrior Code and 55g for masonry. Trade masonry to Aztecs for Bronze Working and 10g.
3050BC All three contacted AI have second city now. Worker1 moves to road to SL.
3000BC Looks like I've found the three southern civs so I head all scouts north.
2950BC Zulu are 7th most powerful, the three civs I've met are 1-2-3 (Mongols, Aztecs, French).SL produces worker2, starts warrior. Scout1 sees first barb camp. Worker2 start to road/mine sugar to SW of SL.
2900BC Scouts continue northward.
2850BC CotW produces Settler, starts warrior. Scout1 pops hut with Cermonial Burial in it. Scout2 sees coast directly north of French. Settler moves to plant between the cows.
2800BC Barb camp shows up next to worker1. Scout1 hits India borders. Trade India Masonry for Mysticism. Worker1 stops roading and moves. Trade France Mysticism for Alphabet and 60g
2750BC Barbs stay put. Discover the Wheel, set research to Horseback Riding(100%). Scout1 78, avoiding barb. Scout2 sees Babylonian borders. Worker2 finishes road and starts mining. Settler1 founds "The Ranch" as it is surrounded by horses and cows. TR starts a warrior.
Looks like I may make the Mongols my first target as their capitol appears to be closest and has a lux adjacent.
2710BC CotW produces Warrior2, starts a settler. SL produces Warrior3, starts a barracks. Aztecs Reg Warrior appears on TR western border. Scout2 sees Babylon. Warrior2 heads for The Ranch. Warrior3 takes up station next to barb camp.
2670BC Scout2 sees Babylon is close to NE coast.
2630BC Scout1 discovers coast directly behind India's start area, I'm seeing a pattern here.
2590BC Worker1&2 finish mine, move to connect SL to other towns, Warrior3 guards them.
2550BC TR produces Warrior4, starts worker. Warior3 fortify.
2510BC Scout3 pops a hut for Iron Working, but land next to a two warrior barb camp, oh well. Quick look shows Aztecs and French with close iron.
2470BC CotW produces settler, starts barracks. Scout3 bites the dust. Settler2 moves north.
2430BC Barbs camp grows.
2390BC Looks like I've found both the NW and NE corners.
2350BC Scout2 sees a blue border. Settler2 founds "Woodland" Worker1&2 finish road, to first cow and start to mine. Woodland starts warrior.
2310BC TR produces Worker3, starts barracks. Trade India Warrior Code for 30 gold. Worker3 starts to road horses.
2270BC CotW produces barracks, starts a warrior.
2230BC Scout2 on Mayan border. Trade Mayan Alphabet for 40 gold.
2190BC CotW produces warrior5, starts horseman. SL produces Impi, starts horseman. Scout2 44. Impi1 barb takes one damage. Worker1&2 set to auto road to Woodland. Worker3 finishes road to horse and moves to road/mine cow. Trade Aztec Alphabet for Horseback Riding and 50g. Set research to Writing/Philosophy/Map making(100%)
2150BC Impi1 kills barb takes one damage.
Zululand
189g (-3gtp)
4 towns
2 barracks
1 granary
5 warrior
1 Impi
2 scouts
3 workers
Tech leader as far as I know
Second in land, India first with 5 towns.
6 of 7 civs contacted
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Theseus
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The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:28
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AU 506 – DAR1: 2150BC
AU Mod, Emperor
Founded the capitol on the spot, thinking forward to irrigation across the line of hills. I had gone with a Scout-Granary-Worker-Settler to get a fast start towards exploration, hut luck, and expansion. Worked pretty well, as I had gotten I think three techs and a Settler!!
At this point, I have 3 each of Scouts, Workers (one slave from a tech trade), and Warriors. I’ve met all of the AI civs, and am at tech parity with all but China and France, who both have IW and HBR. Shooting for Philosophy.
No warfare yet. With horses nearby, plan to go for Monarchy, and have a mixed Horsemen / Impi force out and about, with the Mongols (and thus the ivory) first on the list.
 Attachment: au506 2150bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 30 time(s).
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04-02-2005 03:09
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