09-02-2005 19:30									#31
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

How many of those 57% approving Bush have family or friend in the military? How many those 57% make less than $100K per year?

	09-02-2005 19:57									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Bush ha s had moderate success mainly in the last election. Legislatively he got three major bills through 1) His education bill which is actually good but he only provided half the money he said he would and he's cutting education this year 2) His truly massive farms subsidy bill which was a blatant attempt to pork barrel he way to victory in the midwest (vote for me and I will give you money) 3) The medicare drug benifet which was actually a Democrat idea that Bush co-opted when it was obvious it was to popular to oppose (and he did oppose it for the first two years).

The Iraqi elections were good but they are hardly his to claim since Bush didn't want to hold elections for at least another year or two. The Department of Homeland security is looking more and more like a big mistake since it hasn't really improved security or interagency communication and instead simply put a massive new layer of bueacracy into the mix thus slowing things down further. Lastly, one must realize the serious damage down to our Civil Rights and the nation's image due to policies Cheny, Rumsfield, and Gonzales all told Bush were needed for security. The British remain just as big a target as we are but they haven't lost their civil liberties while keeping their country safe.

	09-02-2005 23:28									#33
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I'm happy that Bush is asking for modest cuts to the bloated federal deficit but I doubt they will ever happen. Bush and the Republicans in Congress gave away buckets of money to every special interest they could find in order to win last November's elections and now that Bush won and can't run again he feels safe enough to cut programs. Good, but the Republicans in Congress can and likely will run again thus they won't want to cut anything. Ergo Bush's request for spending cuts is an empty gesture because he knows they won't ever happen.

Yup, people want to cut the pork as long as it is not THEIR pork. People like thier goverment programs, but when it comes to paying fore them: BUT TEH REAGAN SAID TAXES ARE TEH EVIL!.

	10-02-2005 03:17									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Without a balanced budget amendment and (as of yet) no dire consequences from running deficits, members of congress are going to continue running on pork barrel politics. Simple as that. Deficit hawks basically cut their own throats if they can't provide for their district. If I had the U.S. treasurary as a credit card, I think it would probably tempt me too.

There's nothing wrong with pork. It puts often sorely needed money into local communities.

The only way you can really solve the budget shortfall is to put the axe on the big programs. Don't go for the planktons. Go for the huge, bloated whales. Like the Defense Department is getting a $100B budget increase over the next several years (up to $500B in 2010 or something like that), and the RIDICULOUS $121B top 1% tax cut.

You know why cutting pork won't cut it? This little baby here is from the Citizens Against Government Waste website:

quote: For fiscal 2004, appropriators stuck 10,656 projects in the 13 appropriations bills, an increase of 13 percent over last year’s total of 9,362. In the last two years, the total number of projects has increased 28 percent. The cost of these projects in fiscal 2004 was $22.9 billion

That actually sounds pretty good for the government. 10,656 useful projects for only $23B. But back to the main point, THE DEFICIT IS OVER $500B. Cutting all the pork in the world will not eliminate the deficit. We must aim for bigger things.

	10-02-2005 03:43									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Bush ha s had moderate success mainly in the last election. Legislatively he got three major bills through 1) His education bill which is actually good but he only provided half the money he said he would and he's cutting education this year 2) His truly massive farms subsidy bill which was a blatant attempt to pork barrel he way to victory in the midwest (vote for me and I will give you money) 3) The medicare drug benifet which was actually a Democrat idea that Bush co-opted when it was obvious it was to popular to oppose (and he did oppose it for the first two years). The Iraqi elections were good but they are hardly his to claim since Bush didn't want to hold elections for at least another year or two. The Department of Homeland security is looking more and more like a big mistake since it hasn't really improved security or interagency communication and instead simply put a massive new layer of bueacracy into the mix thus slowing things down further. Lastly, one must realize the serious damage down to our Civil Rights and the nation's image due to policies Cheny, Rumsfield, and Gonzales all told Bush were needed for security. the British remain just as big a target as we are but they haven't lost their civil liberties while keeping their country safe.

not yet we haven't, but certain people are trying their hardest to emulate the Bush 'Fear' program over here too. In the run up to the next election it will be interesting to see how that pans out exactly.
Sadly i get the feeling that many people just dont trust Labour under Blair, and we may well get the torries back in - talk about being stuck between a rock and a hardplace
I'm going with the Liberal party this time around, but i just dont think its their time yet, they dont have the polish of either of the other two parties.


@Tass
I liked your 'communist' cartoon strip - funny how the truth can be such a bitter pill to swallow for some?

And at the thread title......all i seem to hear form over the sea these days is the chant of '1984.......1984'

	10-02-2005 03:49									#36
	Got spare money?

The truth is the pentagon is one of the worst run institutions ever. You must spend money or they take it away from you so everyone spends like mad so next year they can ask for a bigger budget. Something is fundamentally wrong with that system. Also almost $600 per year (that's the regular $450 billion Bush is asking for plus the projected $150 billion over the next year for Iraq) we are out spending the next 12-15 countries combined. We have something like 60% of the world's defense spending and Bush says he wants more?

There is hundreds of billions of dollars of pork in that budget. Duplicate defense systems we don't need but some senator wants it because it will make jobs in his state, truly massive overhead (like 12-14 layers of middle managers when even the biggest multinationals get by with 4-8), etc...

Why do we need three slightly different new fighters which all perform with in 5% of each other? Why do we need the styker when it can't even do its stated job? Why do we need a $200 billion (Bush's numbers but reality is closer to $350 billion) missile shield which can't hit jack and won't stop jack any way? This is just the tip of the ice burg we could slash and slash and slash and still have money to give soldiers raises.

Last edited by Oerdin on 10-02-2005 at 03:54

	10-02-2005 03:50									#37
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: The truth is the pentigon is one of the worst run inventions ever.

Pentagon?

Institutions?

	10-02-2005 03:54									#38
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Happy? I went back and spell checked you spelling Nazi. I'm getting another beer.

	10-02-2005 04:05									#39
	Put an end to popups!

dont forget to go running tomorrow!

I long for the day when we just throw all our politicians and their systems onto the fire and start over

	10-02-2005 19:59									#40
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin This is just the tip of the ice burg we could slash and slash and slash and still have money to give soldiers raises.

And Armor for their Humvees

	10-02-2005 20:11									#41
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Happy? I went back and spell checked you spelling Nazi. I'm getting another beer.

Actually he's a professor. Che is a spelling Nazi.

	10-02-2005 21:06									#42
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin The British remain just as big a target as we are but they haven't lost their civil liberties while keeping their country safe.

What on earth makes you say that? It's obviously not a look at the anti-terror laws they have.

	10-02-2005 22:49									#43
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Actually he's a professor. Che is a spelling Nazi.

No, I'm a grammar nazi.

	10-02-2005 22:55									#44
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Is't that position taken by Boris?

	11-02-2005 12:10									#45
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: 3) The medicare drug benifet which was actually a Democrat idea that Bush co-opted when it was obvious it was to popular to oppose (and he did oppose it for the first two years).

And is set up in such a way so as to be a MASSIVE subsidy to drug companies (for example the government isn't getting even the kind of wholesale prices that, say, WalMart gets for the drugs its buying under the system).

	11-02-2005 14:10									#46
	Tired of ads?

Opps...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...wh/bush_ap_poll

quote: Poll: Seniors Key to Slip in Bush Rating 1 hour, 48 minutes ago By WILL LESTER, Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON - The public's confidence in President Bush (news - web sites)'s job performance and the nation's direction has slipped in the opening weeks of his second term, particularly among people 50 and older, according to an Associated Press poll. Adults were evenly divided on Bush's job performance in January, but now 54 percent disapprove and 45 percent approve. The number who think the country is headed down the wrong track increased from 51 percent to 58 percent in the past month. The survey wasn't all bad for the Bush administration: People are slightly more optimistic about the possibility of a stable, democratic Iraq (news - web sites). The poll, conducted for the AP by Ipsos-Public Affairs, was taken after the president's State of the Union address and the elections in Iraq and at the start of a heated debate over creating personal Social Security (news - web sites) accounts. Older Americans, especially those 65 and above, were most responsible for the declining confidence and approval numbers. Middle-aged people between 30 and 50 were about evenly split on Bush's job performance. "It looks like people are reacting to the State of the Union and plans to change Social Security," said Charles Franklin, a political scientist from the University of Wisconsin-Madison. The AP poll did not ask about Social Security, although only four in 10 in the poll said they approved of Bush's handling of domestic policy in general. And a majority of people disapproved of his handling of the economy. The AP-Ipsos consumer confidence index found people were less optimistic about the economy generally, a dip that comes after reports of sluggish job gains and increasing interest rates. "I voted Republican, but it looks like things are going downhill," said Kenny Sproull of Lexington, Ga., who works in construction. "I'm a self-employed contractor and a lot of Mexicans are moving into the state. We can't compete with them price-wise." Most Republicans were strongly supportive of Bush and his policies. "I agree with almost everything President Bush says," said Beverly Bowman, a nurse who lives near Phoenix. "I think the Social Security thing has to be fixed." The poll was a taken at a time that some leaders in both parties have begun to question elements of the president's proposal to change Social Security, said Robert Shapiro, a specialist on polling and politics at Columbia University. During that time, details of Bush's proposed 2006 budget cuts have been emerging. A bright spot for the administration was increased confidence in the likelihood of a stable, democratic Iraq. "From what I hear in the news, it sounds like the Iraqis really want it," said Bill Harrer, a nurse's aide in Mason City, Iowa, who considers himself a political independent. "But it's going to take a long time." Just over four in 10, 42 percent, said they approved of the president's handling of Iraq, while 57 percent disapproved. Since the elections that were considered fairly successful, insurgent attacks have resumed, killing both Iraqis and U.S. troops. Many in the public are not getting the full Iraq story, said Republican William Reid of Columbus, Ohio. Reid watches for newscasts that he says "tell the real story about the good things that are happening over there, about soldiers helping kids and giving them food." Democrats and Republicans were sharply split on Bush and his policies. "I'm unhappy with the whole package" of the Bush administration, said Janet Luzzi, a Democrat and a government finance director from Eureka, Calif. "The good news is that we have four more years and then we're done with him." The poll of 1,000 adults was taken Feb. 7-9 and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. ___ On the Net: Ipsos-Public Affairs site: http://www.ap-ipsosresults.com

	11-02-2005 14:57									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: You must spend money or they take it away from you so everyone spends like mad so next year they can ask for a bigger budget.

Actually, it's that way just about everywhere I've worked.

	11-02-2005 16:16									#48
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Boshko And is set up in such a way so as to be a MASSIVE subsidy to drug companies (for example the government isn't getting even the kind of wholesale prices that, say, WalMart gets for the drugs its buying under the system).

Yes, you are right. Not only that but Bush blocks "unsafe" drugs from Canada and the EU just to spike the price further. There are people in America dying because they can't afford their medications and all Bush cares about is rigging the system so the people who give him money will give him more money.

	11-02-2005 17:15									#49
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

So what you going to do about it Oerdin?

	11-02-2005 18:16									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Shrub's been doing fairly well lately. Whence the surprise?

	12-02-2005 04:51									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist Shrub's been doing fairly well lately. Whence the surprise?

You call this "doing fairly well?"

From the article I posted yesterday in this thread, post #49 I think:

quote: Adults were evenly divided on Bush's job performance in January, but now 54 percent disapprove and 45 percent approve. The number who think the country is headed down the wrong track increased from 51 percent to 58 percent in the past month. ... The poll, conducted for the AP by Ipsos-Public Affairs, was taken after the president's State of the Union address and the elections in Iraq and at the start of a heated debate over creating personal Social Security (news - web sites) accounts. ... The AP poll did not ask about Social Security, although only four in 10 in the poll said they approved of Bush's handling of domestic policy in general. And a majority of people disapproved of his handling of the economy. ... The poll of 1,000 adults was taken Feb. 7-9 and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Is this like 1-3% being called a "mandate?"

	12-02-2005 05:53									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: There is hundreds of billions of dollars of pork in that budget. Duplicate defense systems we don't need but some senator wants it because it will make jobs in his state, truly massive overhead (like 12-14 layers of middle managers when even the biggest multinationals get by with 4-8), etc...

Don't touch the missile shield. Raytheon has a plant here.

As for everything else? AXE IT